Hawkeye Bean Counter

The Astros got to their position by tanking for 3-4 years. Based on that you wouldn't allow the current organization to switch philosophies and tank. Dodgers are a good organization but also have a big market team. Braves and Tampa Bay I think are the best examples of what we should try to emulate. I actually think the Twins are on the right track especially if ownership continues to loosen the purse strings. I understand the philosophy of trying to hit the next best thing, the reality is likely though that we would most likely end up like the mid to late 90's Twins with no hope or future and be begging for the Falvey Levine days.

It becomes an option if Buxton thinks he can do better in another organization. However I didn't realize he had a no trade clause til 2026.

Chpettit, those are valid arguments, however, stating they should run a better team and spend more money is not a Front office or manager decision. That is ownership. What the topic was is that many wanted the Front office and manager fired. Should they be fired if the even have moderate success this year even being constrained by Ownership. I would argue the front office is outperforming the structure that ownership has established. Now we are not the Rays. However we are also not Detroit, Kansas City, White Sox, Colorado, Oakland or Anaheim. I don't know what the answer is. It feels very similar to the constant arguments of the Iowa Hawkeyes and whether they should get rid of Kirk Ferentz for only be a steady performer with an outlier season ever 4-5 seasons. You can make the change but odds are you won't find something better than what you currently had, just look at the Cornhuskers who have continually tried to find the next best thing to turn around that program and continue to fall further and further behind. Also who would want to take over a Front Office position that just got fired after winning the division? Those are high expectations that many would not want to take on and you would likely not get the best candidates.

I would think they would trade Kepler for excess value, and then hope Larnach can begin to figure it out. Wallner seems to be locking in the LF position, but we have seen sophmore slumps before. Center and RF would be question marks. For me this comes down to 3 decisions the Twins will need to make. 1. Buxton - do you keep him or trade him. With his contract and previous performance this is still an excess value proposition but if he has another poor year the value begins to degrade fairly rapidly. If they want out of the contract and move in a different direction this offseason will be the time. 2. Kepler - if you trade Buxton most likely I think you would keep Kepler for stability for 1 more year and see what happens in CF and that Wallner continues to perform. 3. Polanco- I would think the Twins would not pick up the contract, as the depth in the infield is stacked and I don't see a proposition of being able to then trade him for excess value unless he has a bananas end of the season and post season similar to an Eddie Rosario with the Braves.

The buyout is 1 million, so the question is will the Twins pay an additional $9 million and I would say yes. Now whether they would then trade him or keep as the RF I don't know. If Kepler performs down the stretch though and gives the team a 2 or 3 war for the season it would be a no brainer to pick up the option. There would be excess value in that contract. I think Kepler is showing a much better approach at the plate and with much more confidence. Polanco would be the other question, is would think the Twins also exercise his option as well even though I am not sure we have a spot for him. The Twins will have some decisions to make this offseason.

Pagan, Kepler, Jeffers are giving the Twins more cover on keeping an underperforming Gallo (who did get 2 walks yesterday). Gallo is an interesting case, he plays good defense has been willing to play wherever the Twins need him, but the bat which started out decent has completely reverted back to the last 2 years performance. Until Kiriloff gets back or expanded rosters I don't expect anything to happen with Gallo. The organization is hoping his bat will begin to heat up with the rest of them. Even still the Gallo experiment has not worked. I would prefer if the Twins gave Williams or Prato a chance however we have seen many prospects struggle on their first call ups to the big leagues. With Lewis, Larnach possibly Miranda also being other options that can be added to the big league team. We seem to have plenty of bat options to supplement the big league team, the relief pitching corps seems less full with only Funderburk seeming like a possible option. As much as stating a division winner should win a series or two, we will be going against either Houston or the Blue Jays in the playoffs. Those are both very good teams, with much larger salaries than the Twins (Blue Jays 227 million, $248 million for the Astros). As a small market team we are always playing with 1 hand behind our back. In order to win, like the Rays and continually be a strong team we have to excel well beyond the current norms, for me that is the draft. The Twins will have to consistently find more prospects than other teams and develop them for prospects for the team and trade capital.

I had thoughted of starting this specific topic. I think for the broad base, its what have you done for me lately, and getting to the playoffs, if they finish strong and a playoff win or even a series win will satisfy most of the fans and some of the Contributors on the board. With that being said, I think there are few individuals, that want a complete overhaul, and even a series win or a win in the playoffs would not placate their views. For the most part those that have been most vocal have been fairly quiet on this 5 game winning stretch because this winning stretch doesn't help their point of view. They are waiting for the failure and will jump again. They will state this was a flawed team and we could have one it all if we had done more at the deadline or not signed Gallo and got a right handed bat and Relief pitcher to start the season. They will continue to attack the weak points and failures of trades, even though I would argue the Twins have gotten more from trades than what they traded away. I like what the organization has done. They have been robbing Peter to pay Paul, by trading draft picks and prospects to supplement the MLB team. Over the 7 years they have put a pretty respectable team out most years. They generally have not tanked a season even though I think they should have. The 2022 and 2023 draft are adding a lot of solid prospects to the organization even with some fast risers such as Lee. At this trade deadline they were effectively in no mans land, with only a few teams selling and those that were having high demands. I hope the Twins continue to win, and I have been saying for a while I felt the bats would begin to heat up. They were beginning to do the small things, and play more small ball which is allowing for more mistakes to happen and are starting to capitalize with men on base. I hope lightening strikes and the Twins would win it all, but being realistic, there are 4 stacked teams - Rangers, Orioles, Rays and Atlanta. The AL is going to be brutal. Currently in a playoff scenario the Twins are looking at playing Toronto or Houston. Neither is an easy road and this was never a year the Twins were truly going to be a contender most likely. Hopefully the Twins continue on the hot streak and give more games for me to cheer on with my son. That's what it is all about.

Its much more pleasant on this board with the Twins winning. Pablo continues to grab a firmer handle on being the Twins Ace of the future. The bat improvement has been across the board other than Gallo and Buxton and Correa, This game showed a bit of improvement 2 walks by Gallo and 2 hits for Correa including the home run. Correa has had some improvement then some poor games. Let see if he can string a couple good games together. If Correa and Buxton begin to heat up this becomes a dangerous team.

Walker Jenkins continues with a hot bat. Winokur continues to show he can hit at an advanced level for a high school kid. Jenkins should get promoted to A ball, if the Twins want to be aggressive can send straight to high A ball like Texas did with Langford. That would be extremely aggressive especially with a high school player. I am waiting to see if a few of the pitchers will get some action. I am most curious to see are the college kids; Hall, Stoffal, Dougherty, Dunn, Langenberg, Pasqualotto, Lee, Hamilton and Bragg. I skipped a few but to me these are the most promising of the college picks.

Got close to the Twins. Cleveland still showing they are at least trying to compete, and will be without Ramirez for a bit.

Even at the lowest levels of baseball, baseball is 90% mental and having a good approach. Right now Correa is off, but not hopeless, we have seen many players go through slumps like this before and bounce back. Correa himself, Bellinger and many others. Hopefully he can figure it out as we wind down the season. However, Kepler and Jeffers look to be getting much more comfortable, and with Julien and Wallner that is starting to form a decent core of batters to build around for the rest of the season. It is entertaining to as one poster mentioned on here the "whiplash" of fans opinions on this team and organization. Just a week ago their was major concerns on the ownership, management, coaches and direction of the team and organization. A week later after 5-1 start someone of the demonstrative concern has begun to quell, but more just seems to be in the background seeming to be waiting (dare I say hoping) for another downward stretch from the team. As a whole though it was a very good week for the team and organization. Here is my highlights of the week.. 1. Pablo Lopez beginning to assert himself as the Twins future ace. 2. Wallner and Julien looking like 2 very good young bats. 3. The minor leagues, continues to pump out mid level prospects and making them look like elite hitters. Add in the most recent draft where Jenkins, Keaschall and Winokur are all performing very well in their first week of professional baseball. SSS away, both Jenkins and Winokur are performing very well for high school players. We will see if they get promoted to A ball here shortly. We are still waiting on the pitchers and based on previous years handling they will likely slow play them letting some get their feet wet and others working with them to get ready for the 2024 season. The 2023 draft has the potential to be a franchise changing draft. 3-4 very good bats, and plenty arms, some with very high ceilings to work with. 4. Lee getting promoted to AAA. On track to potentially be in the big leagues next year, and we will see if the team starts him at the MLB level to try an get an additional pick if he is rookie of the year. 5. Bounce back start by Gray and continued dominance by Maeda. For individuals concerned about not trading Gray or Maeda, the Twins not only are continuing to benefit from their performances, they both continue maintain in Grays case and continue to increase the chances that the Twins may be able to either receive draft compensation or another 1 year on a qualifying offer. It is questionable whether Maeda would accept the qualifying offer or not, but he is currently performing at a very high level.

All we need from Keuchel is 5-7 starts, even 1 was worthwhile to give Ryan a break. if needed he can give any other pitcher a breather if they need it. He is merely an innings filler at this point that can hopefully leave you in a position to win the game. Ultimately though other than Verlander, or Sherzer that is what we would have been looking for at the deadline, and we didn't have to give up a prospect.

I don't know, the last year from Knoblauch where he couldn't throw to 1st base was pretty bad. Conseco getting hit on the head from a pop fly. Lets not go hyperbole here, but he is a bad defensive player currently, with as good as his bat is, hopefully they can work more on the defense.

Right now if Gallo can give us just good defense at first it should be enough with our pitching depth and our other bats heating up. However, as a bat, Gallo is currently a black hole. I am all for letting him go, and even replacing now with one of the rookies, put Gallo on the injured list and give us 10 days to try it out.

If you have been a fan since the 60's you must be forgetting several poor droughts from the Twins with much less hope or even mediocre results. I still go back to the 90's being a fan and just happy when the Twins got a win as a kid. Fans are much more what have you done for me lately and fickle than what they use to be in the past. Especially over a move or non move when we don't have all the information about what players were available and what the cost would be. The exact same claims can be made about the Yankees so this just wasn't a Twins management issue. As to the pitchers claim in the video's the Twins made a lot of the pitching depth signings in the past of injured pitchers trying to fill a pitching staff, because the pitching pipeline at the MLB level and in the minors just wasn't there. The depth throughout the organization is much much better now. The Twins won't have to dig as deep in the barrel but still will likely lean into their philosophy of trying to acquire injured players (pitchers) thinking the value is there. The argument is the front office thinks the Twins are just happy with mediocrity. I don't think its that at all, I think management tries to put the best product on the field at the MLB level while trying to build up the minor and find those elite prospects to build the team around. Personally I am happy with the direction and have hope the season will turn out better and think it well. The run production seems to be better than where we were earlier in the season, also the team willing to now take some small ball approaches. Maybe they can catch lightning in a bottle, more realistically I am hoping to get some wins in the playoffs.

Jenkins for 1 game sample size, the bat, balance and hard hit balls looks very promising for SSS. Keaschall is the one who the last couple games is ripping the cover off the ball. .714 BA in A ball in 2 games. I know its 2 games, but there is very few people who do that in 2 games over the course of the season. Winokur is also looking like a solid selection and with a hit tool that may be slightly more advanced than we may have thought. Its always at the top of the draft that the Twins have struggled if they hit on these, I feel really confident in the pitchers they selected that at minimum they will hit on a few if not a lot more than normal. Early returns are the Twins look like they drafted very well in this draft.

Any update on either of these injuries??

He lost a year when surgery was likely his best option. I still think he will have some of the best ability in the farm system. it is similar to Priellip. They have strong arm talent you hope you can keep healthy and if so will be a big boon to the organization. Once he is healthy I think he could move up quickly even to the big league team if there is a spot open in the bullpen.

These are your arguments and claims: The thought that the Twins starting pitchers are starting to wear down 110 games into a season is a very sad statement. First this team has been hit with a lot of injuries and the starters can't hold up over a season when they are barely over 100 innings. That is a sad statement of the process of this FO. - I counter stating the Twins lead the major leagues in innings pitched by the starting rotation. You then state the following Only Lopez (7th) is in the top 27 pitchers in innings pitched, Ryan 28th, Gray 40. so I don't really care about how the Twins starters have pitched the most innings as a team, because individually they are not. Ok so you acknowledge the Twins have 3 of the SP with the top 40 innings pitched. You realize that is statistically significantly very high. You have 1 in the top 10. I guess that shows to me the front office strategy regarding pitching is working. Now players do get dead arm. To me its very clear that Ryan's fastball is no longer getting the ride it was earlier in the season. From wearing out or ect. I guess I don't take this as a negative on the Twins strategy, its just a young pitcher is wearing down some. I understand having frustration and you fully have that right. I have a differing opinion thinking the strategies that the front office has been taking is to continue to put an average to above average team that compete in the big leagues while it tries to build the pitching pipeline and find a couple stars that can lead it into the next decade. I still think the Twins will outperform down the stretch, maybe I am overly optimistic. I think its very clear Ryan needs a break. I personally thing Sonny Gray is ok and will do well down the stretch and Maeda looks very good right now. I think Lopez will be our best pitcher and lead us into the playoffs. I wish you well, just hope we see some better performance here in the next couple of months.

So you don't think Ryan or Gray have performed well this year and/or that both look a little worn down and could benefit potentially from a skipped start or two?? Whose system exactly do you think we should be based off of, the Rays who have been struggling just as much as us down the stretch??? I am very confused as to what you are arguing or what pitchers you think we should have that would be pitching better?

Likely pick up a couple free agents give some players from the minor leagues a chance, and drop some players from the 40 man that haven't performed. Also after the rule 5 sign a few more players and try to sneak a few more prospects back into the minors likely every other year. Most likely lose a prospect or two, let the masses fret and move on. All I am showing is we have a lot of free agents that are on the end of deals and some prospects that can be removed from the 40 man to open spots for prospects on the 40 man that deserve it. I don't know what they will do and who they will keep.

The Twins starters have pitched the most innings of any staff I believe, if not right up there. That some players that have pitched more innings than previous years are hitting a bit of a wall is not something new to the last century plus of baseball. If we can give them a bit of breather I think could be good for the rest of the season and as an entire pitching staff have the #8 best ERA. I don't think this is the dig you intended it to be. If you want to go after the batters I think you have a stronger argument.

I am good with letting him go, and also fine with Chris Williams being given the opportunity.

I guess I think we have a pretty strong team currently underperforming but good talent and a decent core. I like Jeffers, Julien, Correa and Buxton (both who need to perform better), Wallner is looking decent and Kiriloff was beginning to look like a core piece. . Pitching wise Ober, Ryan and Lopez is a really nice core to build around. Lewis and Lee look like solid players if can stay healthy that should be good additions to the mlb team. There is a slew of pitchers in A and A+ ball, plus what we picked this year. I think you give the system another year and it is going to look loaded. What I want to see is a couple pitchers start coming up that look like #1 pitchers. Last year the team over performed and we got lucky signing Correa (although some will not say has actually hindered the team) and we went all in last year when we likely shouldn't have. I still have a bit of a concern that we are not allowing pitchers to pitch how they have previously had success or different methods to have success. Will Lopez succeed in Florida, why couldn't we fix Cano? But then we seem to get something out of Brock Stewart, Pagan is pitching better and as a whole the entire pitching staff has outperformed expectations. I guess I just don't think the grass is greener and think there is still good potential this FO can build a continual quality organization. I like that AAA has been doing well AA is so/so but A and A+ show more quality players coming up the pipe line and players and teams that know how to win.

We haven't promoted Lewis, Wallner, Julien, Varland, Balazovic, Headrick, Prato, Ohl, Cossetti, Yake, Culpepper, Lewis, Matthews, Morris, Raya, Schobel, Martin, Ober, Stewart and many others. Some performance some to fill in for injuries. Most would have said the Twins should have moved on from Pagan after last year. He is performing pretty well so far this year. Many were clamoring to drop Kepler who has 939 OPS in the last 15 games. Right now Gallo is a major source of discontent. Who should we replace him with, and yes I am fine with letting him go. Who should be promoted in the minors- Lee (a player who just before the all star break some were claiming was a poor pick), Prato, Williams??? I guess I am not sure what your master plan would be and how it would drastically change anything.