bird

Uh, the Twins sign free agents, and trade for veterans. I was responding to your original point, which was that the Twins ignore other options like cubans. It appears you want to discuss their lack of execution now. I'll simply point out that yes, they've signed bad players and they've wasted roster spots and money on them. That's not unique to this franchise, is it? To balance that out, I'd point out that they've signed good players and used money and roster spots productively. Back to the original topic, which was about how injuries, something out of a GM's control, have affected the timetable. I'm personally satisfied with the degree to which they've paid attention to other options, including Cubans. You are mistaken in saying they have ignored even the Cuban market, BTW. I agree with Nick. Had the Twins made the level of expenditures on free agents that would have satisfied all but one person here on TD , I'm not sure they'd have an appreciably shorter timetable to a division title, but I'm absolutely positive that they would lack future finanical flexibility to retain our future budding stars. Now, we can talk turkey about filling the last couple of holes via other options rather than waiting for, say, Thorpe, Stewart, and Jorge. But the two things that allow that conversation to be meaningful are that 1) we've got most of the holes projected as filled now, and 2) the timing is more conducive to perhaps signing or trading for just the right missing piece.

I gotta hand it to you, mike, that's an impressive segue from being snake-bitten to "ignoring" other options like cubans. The delay in seeing Sano and Buxton has hurt because they aren't just your run-of-the-mill prospects. They hold the promise of being the type that DOES only come around once a decade for an organization. And we've had so many injuries to pitching prospects who've been ranked as top 25 guys: Wimmers, Chargois, Bard, Rosario, Romero, Williams, Melotakis, and Gibson. Thankfully, the system is so deep that we've had the edge taken off of these injuries by Arcia, Santana, Vargas, Pinto, and Hicks, and Polanco and Rosario are close. Mike, I'm not sure Chicago has three prospects in their entire system with more upside than these 7 guys, and they surely don't have any to match up with Sano and Buxton. So naturally, it made sense for the Sox to take a huge risk on Abreu, who helped them leapfrog the Twins into 4th place in the division. Rather than focusing on how snakebite the Twins have been, I'm celebrating the fact that, even with all those TJ's, we have 3 pitchers ranked among the top 40 prospects in all of baseball in Meyer, Berrios, and Stewart, and that we have so many young prospects in addition to the injured ones, some of whom will NOT fail, on the cusp: guys like Burdi, Reed, Tonkin, Jones, May, Meyer, and Berrios. Contrary to your statement, mike, the Twins have not ignored other options. Wasn't Hughes another option? It might be hard to accept, but maybe they just reject your idea that overpaying (by their definition of the term) is prudent for the likes of Puig and Abreu, particularly at this stage of the rebuild. Maybe they really believe, like our idolized Cards, that going the FA route is something you do as an absolute last resort if you plan to sustain your level of success. And if filling your roster is going to take you decades, THEN you have a legitimate gripe about your GM.

I'm so sorry you were offended. I want you to read what I wrote again please. I did not label you a casual fan or anything else. Also, understand I was picturing Ryan's reaction to such a letter, not mouthing my own sentiments, which have been articulated in TD enough. And yes, I meant to portray Ryan's thoughts as being above the casual fan's. If you read the snippet of his interview with Parker Hageman about payroll, you'll see why I would portray him as.....impatient, shall we say...with questions from us more rabid fans. As for your advice to him, to be honest, your lack of specific suggestions weakened things for me personally. Again, I'm sorry you were offended. It was not my intent whatsoever.

Good one.

I'm picturing Ryan opening and speed-reading this letter. He's days away from handing over the reigns to a clubhouse manager who will walk into a dream scenario. He's fresh off his annual meeting in Fort Myers with his staff of many dozens. He heard that the farm system had its best results in decades in terms of the number of elite prospects matching or exceeding expectations regarding their development. This despite his two ultra-elite prospects sidelined and a half-dozen top 25 prospects due back from TJ in the next year or so. And he knows the letter writer is perhaps not fully aware that the farm system has been producing at a far better than average rate since before those Twins Daily founders started their blog for guys like this writer. He knows he has one of the better scouting and development organizations in baseball, and he's getting another elite prospect from a pitching-rich draft in June. So, the letter hits the recycling pile and he gets back to work. He feels better this year. He has fewer holes to fill and a few answers in place, and he's nothing if not patient. He knows the always-important casual fan will be back as soon as they see a little more evidence that the product is good and he's entirely confident the wins will start coming. No need for a splash just to make a splash here, just a need to execute the plan.

None of those making a prediction that May or Meyer would outperform any one of these three out of the blocks in 2014 would have been employed by the Twins.

I'm "guilty" for having labelled Hughes a #2-3 versus a #1-2. But it was within the context of assessing what we have for a rotation right now leading into 2015. We've had a few too many instances lately where perhaps our boys have overestimated what they had. I'm hoping Ryan is taking stock of this. Hughes may turn into a consistent #1-2 guy. I hope so, because it will be so much fun reading the comments, one right after another, effusive in praise for that brilliant FA acquisition by Ryan.

I wouldn't imagine you're suggesting that the April team with the winning record, the team with Colabello, Bartlett, Kubel, Correia, Willingham, Florimon, and Deduno was better in any other way besides its SSS record and it's "experience". SwainZag's point, I think, is well-made, in saying a 40% roster turnover from the beginning of the season represents improvement, and I like the fact that she's still lobbying for a couple of key moves by Ryan this off-season.

Dman, they can find out what they have and leave room for every single one of the prospects you just named and STILL attempt to pull off another Hughes-type move and sign a 2-way corner OF for 2015. If things get crowded in 2016, great, trade from surplus.

We all love the K's. But let's not rely on this one example, Meyer, to perpetuate the "preference for soft-tossing pitchers" thing and to dredge up known history, which is that we've lacked pitching talent in the upper minors. You and I were not privy to the discussions, let alone the circumstances involved in the decision(s) to keep Meyer at AAA. There were very competent coaches and trainers watching every pitch Meyer threw. What makes you think they made the wrong call? But it most certainly wasn't because they have this irrational jones for soft-tossing AAAA starters. Talent has been slowly bubbling up through the minors. It hadn't reached AAA yet in 2015, and therefore we saw the likes of Pino and Johnson. Exactly what should we have done to avoid using those AAAA guys in 2013 and 2014, aside from making our own declaration that Meyer was ready to go? Next year will be the FIRST year where we will have young "bona fide" prospects to choose from, guys like Meyer, May, Berrios, Duffey, Gilmartin, Darnell, Wheeler, Rogers, etc. You might be right that not calling Meyer up was a mistake on the part of the development staff, but if it wasn't, then the right guys got called up to make the necessary starts.

Service time seems to be the deciding factor over who can help out the club? I'm not aware of a single case that affirms this statement. I suppose we could find some anecdotal cases that might suggest service time was a FACTOR. How did you reach this conclusion? Burdi may be up in 2015, certainly not in "a few years", and service time won't even enter into the Twin's thoughts about the timing, if you ask me.

nick, I think the flaw in this is an underlying belief that the Twins were just as clueless as we were regarding the stage of development and readiness of these guys. I disagree that they were not auditioned for starting spots because of "depth". I doubt you could've found a close observer that thought May or Meyer were likely to outperform Nolasco out of the shoots last spring.

Agreed. I can't remember a season that we didn't have at least three staters go down for extended periods.

It's OK to dream into the future about Meyer, but I think you're making a huge and inaccurate assumption to say that Meyer would have buckled knees and missed bats. Maybe he would have simply missed the plate and been pulled after three innings, five walks, and 70 pitches. No one on this site has ever argued that Meyer's ceiling is lower than a single one of these guys. Pino was likely regarded from the start as a one-year guy, and he was a terrific addition, giving us some nice starts up until he was injured. They didn't cut him because of his performance per se.

We're all rooting for Meyer and were frustrated that we didn't see him, but let's remember that Pino, May, and Johnson all performed better than he did if you don't allow yourself to be mesmerized by his K's while ignoring his BB's. In addition, Darnell and Gilmartin for that matter turned in comparable performances to Meyer's. Still, his injury concerns probably overshadowed all of this in the decision that Meyer was indeed NOT a better option than Pino or Darnell at the particular point in time that those decisions were made.

The idea of "rolling with what we have" for 2015 almost nauseates me. The thought that seems to permeate this whole argument is to "survive" 2015. But survive WHAT? And why avoid making a couple of very doable moves when those moves might radically alter things in 2015 with zero negative consequences into the future? I get the optimism about Reed, Jones, Burdi, Polanco, and Rosario, let alone Meyer, May, Sano, and Buxton. But we can't view their contributions, if any, to any success we have in 2015 as foregone conclusions. And the very mention of the word "adequate" in the same sentence as Milone, Pelfrey, Parmelee, Hicks, Schaefer, Darnell, and Danny Ortiz should be illegal. Why would we go with the choices we currently have in the outfield if instead we can sign a better player than any of those guys has proven to be with the only cost being some cash? No blocking of Buxton, or anyone else for that matter. And let's be entirely realistic about the starting rotation please. Fine, Hughes is a #2-3 starter. Great. Now, for 2015, if everything goes our way, we have Gibson, a #3-4, Nolasco, at BEST a #3-4 and at worst a repeat of his #5-6 performance, Meyer and May, probably #3-4 performance as rookies at best. Now, I DO love the depth, and history proves you need 10 pitchers, not 5, capable of making some semblance of a start for you. And we have lots of possibilities with Pelfrey, Milone, Johnson, Rogers, Duffy, Gilmartin, Wheeler, Darnell, Berrios, etc. I'm OK rolling with what we have for options on the infield and in the pen, but we should be pulling for Ryan to find another Hughes-like gem and a 2-way corner OF. At the very least.

Are you suggesting it's valid to compare Finnegan to Reed? Finnegan was the 18th player taken. He's living up to his glowing scouting reports, even exceeding all expectations. People watching Reed in the AFL, despite his nice showing, are still seeing some command issues. It's entirely unfair to criticize the Twins on their advancement of Reed, who was selected about 100 players after Finnegan.

Go for the donuts, you fool!

Going back to the comparison you were trying to make then. You mentioned you can see the Twins ultimately ending up with similar results to KC in terms of Rule 4 production (correct me if I'm wrong). You used Butler, Hosmer, Moose and Gordon as your examples, which is understandable but also paints a very incomplete picture of the contribution they gotten from Rule 4. Let's HOPE we get even more contribution from our Rule 4 guys, and faster. What I find most instructive is that KC's success is 90% the result of combination of international signings and Rule 4 selections, both of which are part of rebuilding via your own farm system.

Yes, I agree completely that his value has been nominal for a long time, and maybe I'm being unfair using him as an example. I also recognize guys are going to have to be cut simply because the timing doesn't allow for a transaction to be pursued. Still, I just wonder if a deal couldn't be pursued more often by the Twins for guys like him. Maybe last year when he had marginally more value, off to a team with a more acute shortage of MLB OF options for their version of a Kanzler or Tanner English- a low level prospect like that.

I sure hope you're right about Hicks, Paul! And I think, like with Dozier and others, the hope is justified. But I keep circling back to this Plan B in my little head, and I get nervous thinking that Santana and Schaefer represent Plan B if Hicks falters. That's not good enough IMO, even for 2015, even with Rosario laying in the weeds. That would be like counting on Scott Baker coming off injury as your #3 starter, and what GM in their right mind would do THAT? So then, I think about what kind of conversation a GM has with, say, Colby Rasmus. "Colby, we want you to sign this one-year contract, start the year in CF until Buxton shoves you out of the way, maybe as soon as mid-year. And then, unless Hicks is stinking up the joint in LF, you'll be picking splinters out of your pants for the rest of the year." If I'm the GM, I'm finding an everyday LF for 2015 and letting my manager decide among Santana, Hicks, and Schaefer for CF until Buxton comes along.

....based on this...

So Ash, what would you do this off-season regarding Plan B for LF and CF?

I really really hope the new manager grills Joe Mauer on this question.

Hicks should be fine now that they've got rid of Rick Anderson.