S.

How does a rotation of Correia, Gibson, two other pitchers we already have, and one second tier FA make for 5 stable arms?

Double edit: Lets just save ourselves the hassle and drop it here. I cant imagine you're going to listen to what I have to say, and clearly I disagree with what you have to say, so lets try not to turn this thread into another bicker-fest. Hell, we probably shouldn't even really be discussing Tanaka in here.

I'm not gonna pretend I know a ton about pitching mechanics and all the little details, but his delivery looks really good to me. Absolutely filthy split. Nice looking slider. Can throw heat. Not really sure whats not to like. Sure, sometimes Japanese pitchers dont work out in the Majors, but our current rotation proves that you dont need to be Japanese to not work out in the majors.

I'm a realistic nancy. Unfortunately, reality in Twins Town is depressing at the moment. I bet they'll be "in" on Tanaka until they realize so are a ton of other teams and he's gonna cost real money to sign. I'll be happy to eat a giant pile of crow if they go out and make some splashes and prove me wrong, but we're still talking the same FO that was gonna get some pretty darn good pitchers last offseason, in their words. On the Tanaka side, reports on him keep sounding real good. "In a subscription-only piece, Badler also profiles Tanaka's most recent start in Japan, during which he whiffed eight hitters over seven scoreless innings to improve to 18-0 and drop his ERA to 1.15. Badler notes that Tanaka has "arguably the best splitter in the world," and reached 97 mph with his heater on his 108th pitch of the night."

Platoon? Yeah, that movie has one hell of a superstar cast. Wait, what were we talking about? Did someone say Golden Corral?

No surprise, but currently sounding like we shouldn't be holding our breath for Abreu or Guerrero. Really getting sick of hearing so much about pricetag BS in all facets of our team. If they don't like a player and they have some real reasons, I can at least maybe, somewhat come to terms with that even if I disagree, but the price excuse is beyond old at this point. Oh, need a nice new field to be able to have higher payroll. Oh, cant sign any good FA pitchers cuz they're "overpriced". Oh, wont eat any of Morneau's salary in a trade. Oh, probably going to only loosely monitor potential cuban superstars because they have "lofty price tags". Sick of it. Price should NOT be the reason unless we're talking ridiculous $200M contracts or something. I guess there is still plenty of season and the whole offseason ahead of us, but I'm not really holding my breath for that either. Please prove me wrong, Twins, and take some risks and make some moves that aren't complete dumpster diving.* Please. "Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN reports that Abreu's lofty price tag will likely lead the Twins to "loosely monitor" him rather than become serious players for his services. He adds that the Twins are still in on Guerrero but not as deeply as other suitors (Twitter links)." Edit: *I dont even mean that it has to be Abreu or Guerrero, but good lord, do something better than signing some more Correias and Marquis' and praying it somehow works out better than the last 3 years.

It all goes back to my statement about stagnation. I think these last 3 years have proved beyond a doubt that just doing the same old thing and hoping for drastically different results doesn't work. We have an unbelievable amount of payroll flexibility and we're only going to have more the next few years. Now is the time to start making some moves, making some changes, taking some risks. If they don't work out, at least we can say we tried and not that we just kept trotting out Doumit, Morneau and Willingham and hoping that the next year is the year they turn into Miguel Cabrera. I want the twins to spend money as much as anyone, but committing that sort of money to Morneau is accomplishing nothing but taking away at bats from guys like Arcia, Sano, Plouffe, Parms, etc. Mauer is going to be spending more time at first, because we need to keep his bat in the lineup as much as possible, which means Morneau gets pushed to the DH more, which means less at bats for guys with a future on the team or potential upside. edit: in response to Tcrose3636 double edit: To clarify, I'm not saying dont sign a 1B solely because Mauer is gonna bump them to DH, but if we're gonna sign a stop gap guy for 1B, make it someone who Gardy isnt going to feel inclined to keep in the lineup every day due to namesake and salary. Or sign a guy who is good and has upside where mauer pushing him to DH and taking away at bats from said guys is much different than a stopgap taking away at bats from said guys. triple edit: I should probably stop getting into these discussions while I'm working. I feel like each additional post I make gets less and less comprehensive. Hopefully someone is able to follow my semi-coherent train of thought.

If we're gonna lose 85+ games with overpriced, aging stop-gaps, why wouldn't we just lose 85 games with our cheap, equally replacement level players, give some of our younger guys an opportunity to show us what they have, or spend that same money on players who actually have upside? You can't just pray that all of our younger guys simultaneously start playing well (if most of them ever do at all) and miraculously we'll be able to go out the next offseason and fill in every single other hole. Building takes time. (Re)Signing aging, declining stopgaps is not a solution here. If all you need is a body to fill in a spot for a year, you don't go out and sign them to a multi year deal, for a good chunk of change, where they're pretty much going to be guaranteed playtime based on their previous success and salary, regardless of the fact that they're no longer the same player.

I should specify, I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy just for the sake of it, but look at some of our recent lineups and tell me that more than half of these guys would be more than perennial backup guys/bench players/AAA fodder on any team not named the Astros. Minnesota Twins 2013 Starting Lineup - ESPN B. Dozier, 2B C. Herrmann, RF J. Willingham, DH J. Morneau, 1B R. Doumit, C W. Ramirez, LF T. Plouffe, 3B C. Thomas, CF P. Florimon, SS B. Dozier, 2B J. Mauer, C J. Morneau, 1B J. Willingham, LF R. Doumit, DH T. Plouffe, 3B W. Ramirez, RF C. Thomas, CF D. Bernier, SS

I think that speaks a lot more for the low quality of the rest of our team at the plate than the high quality of Morneau. Not like it's terribly impressive to have the third highest OPS on a team full of Florimons, Thomas's, Herrmanns, various first year rookies, aging mediocrity like Doumit, etc.

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Also, not to be too rude, but some of these arguments definitely seem to be people thinking with their hearts and not their heads. I don't know how anyone can sit there with a straight face and say that signing Morneau to a multi year deal is a good idea for the Twins or that we need him because otherwise we won't have a "good" DH in the upcoming years. You're fooling yourselves and all that a multi year deal would accomplish is continuing our trend of stagnation. Sure, if Morneau wants to sign a 1 yr/$4M deal, then you go ahead and do it, but I really dont see that happening. And even if we think that is a remote possibility, it still seems like bad business in my book to not trade him now and guarantee we get something back instead of letting him walk. Once you start talking multiple years and $5-8M per, it's just ridiculous.

Dont get me wrong, I like Morneau a lot, but signing him to another deal right now would be dumb as hell. As was already pointed out, half of our current team is made up of players who have no business playing anywhere besides DH or 1B, Mauer should start seeing a lot more time at 1B, there is a certain Cuban who we could sign to play 1B, we have young, cheap guys we could plug in at first who could be just as replacement level, etc, etc, etc. I understand that there is a lot of nostalgia and love for Morneau, but he is not the player he used to be. Not even remotely close. He's mashing right now, so I don't see ANY benefit of not shipping him off somewhere while we can, for the best deal we can get, and actually start moving forward with our rebuild.

Not much of an update, but an update none-the-less "The market for Cuban shortstop Alexander Guerrero is down to four teams, according to Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN (Twitter links). The Dodgers, Twins, Red Sox and Braves are the clubs still in the mix to sign the 26-year-old. The Reds have also checked in on Guerrero, though they might not be (or are no longer be) a serious contender since Wolfson didn't include them in his first group. The Dodgers and Twins had previously been cited as two of the then-three clubs known to be interested in Guerrero, and agent Rudy Santin denied reports that his client already had a seven-year deal in place with Los Angeles. Guerrero defected from Cuba in January and is still waiting to be unblocked by the U.S. government before he can pursue a contract with a Major League team." Dodgers, Twins, BoSox, Braves In On Guerrero: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Not really in the mood to dig through all the bickering in here, and all the other FA threads, but has anyone been talking about Halladay in terms of a pitcher to go after in a high risk/high reward type of deal? I know a lot of folks on here seem to be all about Johnson and I've seen some chatter about Lincecum and Hughes, but feel like Doc hasn't had much mention, and thats someone I'd love to see us take a gamble on. Obviously a ton hinges on how his rehab continues to go, but if the man is healthy, what do we have to lose? Worst case scenario is we throw some money down the drain. Best case scenario is we get a bonafide ace. More realistic scenario is somewhere in the middle and he'd still be a gigantic upgrade. Eye On Baseball - CBSSports.com Roy Halladay throws 87 pitches in rehab start

I think I feel better giving credit for this trade to a terrible decision by Ned Colletti, but I'm quite shocked and happy about it regardless.

I think if he's pitching regularly for the Twins next year, it more than likely means we failed again this offseason in acquiring any halfway decent pitchers. I'm glad he had 2 good games, but you're talking the ultimate small sample size here, with some spectacular defensive plays behind him. I'd love to be wrong, but I think we're just looking at a Scott Diamond 2.0, where people are excited that a Twins pitcher hasn't been total ass and are getting their hopes up way too high.

I bet the Astros are pissed they didn't get to face Correia.

Well said.

I think maybe I'm being taken out of context. Obviously I don't want to win once and then be terrible for the next 10 years...but I also don't want to not win in over 20 years, suck miserably a lot of those years, and just get swept when we are able to make the playoffs. edit: In response to AROG's last post

I agree from a stat line performance, but the whole goal is to win the World Series, no? And i think our performance over a 162 game season becomes not terribly impressive if we aren't in the ALC most of the years in that decade.

Cosigned Puck's response. I'm sorry, but getting completely destroyed in the playoffs repeatedly does not constitute great in my book. If you're content to win the AL Central and never do anything better than that, then I guess you're free to call it great, but don't try to act like I'm in the wrong for not being content with that. Also, you said it as if we were just coming off all those "great" years and this is some sort of one-off season.

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I certainly wouldn't say Hicks has just had a 3 week slump, or at least his 2013 numbers would beg to differ.

Offering a higher price than the competition is how teams have been signing free agents forever. If that is overpaying, then damn near every single player who has ever signed in free agency was "overpaid". Sure, some (read: very few) players sign at discounts to play with a specific team, but for every 1 player who does that, 100 sign with whoever will pay them the most.