ThePuck

I think it's cause he reads the ball of the bats so well, he's not making the super flashy play (which a lot of times are because you misjudged the ball to begin with). The guy has the range, reads the ball well, takes the best routes and has the smarts. Additionally, if he was deferring to RF, his RZR would be lower, not the 3rd best. My eye test seems to match what the defensive metrics say and the Fielding Bible award voters said...that he was the third best defensive CF in baseball this last season. But he's not flashy, that's for sure. He doesn't need to be. I'm gonna miss him playing for us.

Didn't hurt he was our best option at CF either Not sure about that, he was a terrific RF and I would have taken the trade-off at flipping the RF and CF (the new CFer's best position is CF, not right, which was his worst), if it would have mattered in the standings. He was rated as the 3rd best defensive CF in baseball this year. That's darn good. I'm comfortable in saying he was our best option. I know Revere has the speed, but I'm not quite comfortable with him reading the ball of the bat well yet. He misjudges a lot. RF is more forgiving in that regard due to less space to cover. His UZR was very high in RF mostly due to having a lot of bad RFs to compare him to I agree with you- Span is better than Revere in judging the wall and obviously has a better arm. He doesn't nearly cover the ground anymore that Revere does, but I still think with Span being better than Revere at both positions based on experience and arm, it would have been better to have Revere in CF--- but again, only because it would have maximized what Revere does best and minimize all the runners who advanced two bases on him (1st-3rd, 2nd to Home) that would have had much more respect for Span in RF. Again, this only would have mattered in my way of thinking if the Twins had had any chance of competing, and the opposite positioning being employed could have been evaluated within a month and just as easily proven you to be correct. Since you're still here...one more thing...concerning range. Span was rated as having the third best range of any CF and the 4th most plays made outside of zone. Again, the amount of plays might have had to do with the chances, but the range (RZR) was still top notch. Now I'm really out, I swear :-)

Anyway, I gotta crash...I enjoyed the conversation. Later

Didn't hurt he was our best option at CF either Not sure about that, he was a terrific RF and I would have taken the trade-off at flipping the RF and CF (the new CFer's best position is CF, not right, which was his worst), if it would have mattered in the standings. He was rated as the 3rd best defensive CF in baseball this year. That's darn good. I'm comfortable in saying he was our best option. I know Revere has the speed, but I'm not quite comfortable with him reading the ball of the bat well yet. He misjudges a lot. RF is more forgiving in that regard due to less space to cover. His UZR was very high in RF mostly due to having a lot of bad RFs to compare him to

Wouldn't it be fair to say then that he's an even worse SS? Which means that the Dodgers acquiring Hanley has little to do with their confidence in gordon as previously argued in this thread. Not sure if you're paying attention to this thread but it's about Gordon. Imo Gordon is a fair amount worse than Revere offensively and I'm not really interested in a low .600's OPS with mediocre defense even if that player is a SS and steals bases. Revere is kind of unimpressive as a starter but at least he has a chance at a .700 OPS and plays good defense. I'm not going to pretend to know what the Dodgers are thinking with Hanley or how it affects what they're thinking with Gordon. As far as my comment about Revere, I apologize for commenting on something you said about Revere.

Didn't hurt he was our best option at CF either

yeah he did, and that was nice, but he also had quite a few times where the ball was hit to the OF, hopped a few times as he was charging it, and in his haste to make a throw, bobbled the ball. He's improving, but he'll always have a weak arm. Just like Pierre and Damon did through their careers. I'll never forget his rookie year where A.J. Pierzinski scored from 2B, standing up, on a ball hit to short CF as Revere fielded it, threw the ball, and six hopped the ball home.

If we have to wait till 2014, 2015 (two, three seasons) and he's only a #4 pitcher, we got straight up robbed. You really think there's any chance he debuts in 2013? Especially given the Twins' M.O. of slowly advancing prospects? I think 2014's a pretty good bet but 2015 strikes me as more likely than 2013. Will I be disappointed if Meyer ends up only a #4? Absolutely. But I don't think two years of Span, even with his team-friendly contract, was going to draw a return much larger than that in an MLB-ready player, anyway. Nope, I absolutely don't...I've been saying 2015 myself...but if he makes it, and I absolutely believe he will, I don't think he'll just be a number 4

That's not what I meant. Everyone and their brother attempted to take an extra base on Revere they wouldn't attempt to take on people with real MLB arms...I'm sure you saw that. What I noticed about his arm this year, he throws better with his feet planted...l Like taking one off the wall, turning, and throwing for example, as opposed to charging a ball coming in, getting it, then throwing while in motion.

You mean did he lead OUR OF in assists? Yes. Two more than Span and Willingham. But heck, enough runners run on you, you're bound to throw a few out :-)

The man had a -8.7 UZR/150 at 3B this year. Horrible defensive shortstop, horrible defensive 3B. So if he's the best defensive 3B they have, they are hurting big time :-)

If Revere is a .290-.300 hitter, but still maintains a sub .350 OBP, he will hold little offensive value. He has no power, with almost twice as many balls in play to, or first through, the infield as opposed to OF. His only value offensively is to get on base and use his speed. So we'll see what happens with him. Will going back to leadoff hurt his OBP as he likely sees less fastballs?

Nobody is tearing him down. Pointing out that he has zero power, no arm and projects more as a 4th OF isn't tearing him down, it's just reality. Nobody will be more happy then me if he proves me wrong, I just don't see it. There was evidence presented that what we have seen thus far from Revere isn't necessarily a finished product. I just hated seeing a guy who has brought his own brand of positivity to 2 dreadful Twins seasons so ripped-upon by his own fan-base. The fact that there might be some other teams out there with interest confirms that I was at least on the right path. Right or wrong, and likely wrong, I imagine a lot of the issues people have with Revere probably stem from the team and our announcers drooling over him...basically forcing him down our throats constantly....severely exaggerating his play. Especially his rookie year. One could argue that with so little to be excited over, they had to focus on him, but still, the constant comparisons to Puckett got old. One of my favorites was the poll on which of 5 plays was his best, failing to mention that 3 of those were clearly due to him misplaying the ball off the bat to begin with causing him to make a great play instead of a mostly routine play. His defense got better this year, but he still lack in OB skills, he still lacks an arm...he needs to be much better to deserve the praise he gets.

I hope Slama gets taken and completely dominates for years to come

Arcia stats his last three years in the minors are comparable to Trouts first three before being he was brought up for a cup of coffee at the end of his third year. Would you agree? Why wasn't Arcia promoted to AAA already? That's not on him. It's not him that he was still in A+ ball going into his 5th year in the minors. Or still in rookie ball to start his 4th year Look at the stats more closely. Arica was fast-tracked until he stalled out in 2011... Can't recall if he was injured or not. Now he's quickly advancing again. Also, Trout never struck out nearly as much as Arcia. That's often a sign of bad breaking ball recognition, which means you absolutely do not advance that player. You try to let them sort that out in the minors, you don't let them flail away in the majors, completely overmatched. You really need to stop referencing that he's a fifth year player. He's 21 years old. He signed at age 16, when Trout was probably chasing tail as a sophomore in high school. Fast tracked? He started his 4th season in the minors still in rookie ball...and he was 17 his first year in the minors.. Like Hunter was Because he was under 18 and from another country. Teams keep those guys in rookie ball to teach them English and basic life stuff. Every team does this. It's not unique to the Twins. These players are adjusting to a lot more than breaking balls. You can't toss an 18 year old from Venezuela into the big leagues and expect success. I wasn't suggesting tossing an 18 year old from Venezuela into the Bigs. I was suggesting tossing a 22 year old from Venezuala into the Bigs and accepting the fact he may struggle :-) I've enjoyed the debate. You made a compelling argument.

Look, I can see your point of view...I respect your point of view...I just don't agree.

Arcia stats his last three years in the minors are comparable to Trouts first three before being he was brought up for a cup of coffee at the end of his third year. Would you agree? Why wasn't Arcia promoted to AAA already? That's not on him. It's not him that he was still in A+ ball going into his 5th year in the minors. Or still in rookie ball to start his 4th year Look at the stats more closely. Arica was fast-tracked until he stalled out in 2011... Can't recall if he was injured or not. Now he's quickly advancing again. Also, Trout never struck out nearly as much as Arcia. That's often a sign of bad breaking ball recognition, which means you absolutely do not advance that player. You try to let them sort that out in the minors, you don't let them flail away in the majors, completely overmatched. You really need to stop referencing that he's a fifth year player. He's 21 years old. He signed at age 16, when Trout was probably chasing tail as a sophomore in high school. Fast tracked? He started his 4th season in the minors still in rookie ball...and he was 17 his first year in the minors.. Like Hunter was

Hunter as a first rounder posted an OPS barely in the .500s his first year in the minors (only 28 games) and went to A ball the next year. He didn't go through three rookie leagues or start his 4th season in rookie ball before moving to A ball. In A ball, he posted a .796 OPS, and got promoted to A+ ball the next season. That season, he posted an OPS of .678 and only had 4 games to start the next year in A+, posting an OPS in the .400s, before being promoted to AA only 4 games into his 4th season. Looking at those numbers, he should have never been promoted anywhere near that quickly. How many would be arguing against it? But having Arcia start his 4th season in rookie ball isn't coddling him?

You start the free-agency (and arbitration) clock a year, or maybe two, early. While the Twins don't necessarily have to view themselves as bottom feeders, they can't waste the high-talent/low-wage years that the CBA gives them. That, at least to me, is the answer to "why not". You can make the trades you outline, but decent talent for a two-year bridge needs to be found as replacement. That's a fair argument...one could also say nitpicking a player's game to death in the minors or staling him might take away confidence.

Arcia stats his last three years in the minors are comparable to Trouts first three before being he was brought up for a cup of coffee at the end of his third year. Would you agree? Why wasn't Arcia promoted to AAA already? That's not on him. It's not him that he was still in A+ ball going into his 5th year in the minors. Or still in rookie ball to start his 4th year

I don't worry too much about age I guess. It's not only age. Arica has all of 250 ABs above A ball. Patience. We should see both of them in 2013. There's no reason to rush them out of spring training. I'm patient enough...but we need pitching right? For the future? If Revere and Willingham can get us those pitchers, I don't see any reason to not trade them and bring up Hicks and Arcia. Will they struggle, probably...why not let them struggle when next year is likely lost anyway? I understand you argument, and perhaps you're right...I see that you could be...I just don't think we need to coddle every prospect making them all spend so much time in the minors.

I don't worry too much about age I guess. Arcia will be 22 a month into next season though. And Hicks is 23.

I personally disagree with the burn it down strategy you're promoting in this post but even if that is the route we head down throwing prospects to the wolves isn't a good solution. Hicks hasn't had an AB above AA and Arcia has only 250 AB's above A ball. It would be foolish to just hand either of them a position this coming year. If you trade Willingham, Morneau, et. al. there would be plenty of money to bring in veterans to fill the vacated spots for however long is needed before our young talent shows it is ready for the bigs. Plenty of players skip AAA ball altogether. Maybe not Twins players, but still. Both these guys have 5 years in the minors. Don't need any more time there. And perhaps you don't agree with burn it down...and I'm not sure that is what I'm promoting. Willingham is only signed for two more years...he won't be around for the future, and we aren't going anywhere in the next year, maybe two. He'll be gone when we get competitive again. And Revere isn't major league starting material IMO...

You aren't even comparing apples to apples here. Span had come off of two seasons posting an .800 OPS, strong on base skills, and above average defense at a key position. Revere has played for essentially 1 season and has done only the defensive side of things. There's legitimate question as to whether or not he will ever be able to top a .750 OPS and whether his on base skills will improve too. While Span didn't have a ton of minor league success either, Span did show improvement and then got the contract. If Revere can do that for two years, I guarantee you they will give him an extension to buy out his arb years, but if he does not, they should not. We're not going to go anywhere this coming year, likely not next year...so trading Span for Meyer made sense when you look at it that way and it makes sense to do the same with Revere. Heck even Willingham. Bring up Hicks and Arcia, let them get their lumps and then they aren't getting their lumps when we're geared up to be a lot more competitive. Hicks has nothing left to prove and Arcia certainly doesn't

You've been pretty vague about that...:-)