biggentleben
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Everything posted by biggentleben
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My thoughts there may be different than others...to me, there were going to be good players available at each of those spots, that was a given. For all that was known, the Vikings could have traded just the 2nd and 4th and gotten Te'o and still had the 3rd to get Bailey or Quinton Patton and then use their 4th on Marcus Lattimore with their ILB and WR needs already covered to have possibly the best RB in the whole class on a redshirt year next season. There are just too many what-if statements to say just on that basis that the trade was bad. What I agree with is that there's logic in trading the amount of picks they did in this year's draft in order to ensure there were still finances to fill the roster in free agency. I don't like the pure "depth player for a star" trade analysis as in the draft, it's pure fallacy. Heck, the most respected name in the business, Kiper, rated the Ravens as the best draft this year, and the AFC North blogger for the same employer as Kiper wrote that the Ravens had the worst draft in their own division. We simply don't know now, and we won't for a few years.
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So, now to finishing off the offseason... The long-term desirable guys are off the board, so the Vikings are probably looking more 1-2 year fix for anything, but there are still some solid names out there: Linebackers: Karlos Dansby Nick Barnett Daryl Smith Brian Urlacher Leroy Hill Takeo Spikes Bart Scott Quincy Black Rocky McIntosh Chris Gocong Bradie James Will Witherspoon Scott Fujita Thomas Howard Keith Brooking Paris Lenon Bryan Thomas Demorrio Williams Defensive Backs: Chris Gamble Quentin Jammer Quintin Mikell Charles Woodson Sheldon Brown Kerry Rhodes Gerald Sensabaugh Madieu Williams Ronde Barber Nate Clements Sam Shields Shawntae Spencer Cedric Griffin Jacob Lacey Rashean Mathis Terrence McGee Abram Elam Marcus Trufant Jason Allen Chris Crocker Will Allen Stanford Routt Jordan Babineaux Atari Bigby Others of interest: Brandon Lloyd John Abraham Austin Collie Sedrick Ellis Laurent Robinson Richard Seymour Randy Moss Shaun Cody Josh Cribbs Kellen Winslow Steve Breaston Early Doucet Amobi Okoye Braylon Edwards LaRod Stephens-Howling Devery Henderson Brandon Stokley Deion Branch Donte Stallworth Stefan Logan
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I don't agree with the "depth for starter" line, and I'd agree completely that line of argument is hogwash. That said, there are those who say Patterson is a better body Percy Harvin, and the Vikings have seen what Harvin could do when he could stay on the field (missing plenty of snaps due to the pounding his smaller frame took). When you have an opportunity to get a talent like that, you do what you can to grab him. The Vikings knew (hopefully, though no one really "knows" what's going on in their draft room) that getting that talent would mean extra money that could mean they couldn't pay a 2nd-4th round pick this year that could provide them a possible starter while also picking up a veteran for competition sake, like they could do without Patterson. Now they're going to be more focused on getting a couple cheaper veteran options because of the way the draft worked out, but money-wise, that could be smarter because they can get a guy who is gone for 2014 and use an early pick on a long-term solution at LB.
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No, my argument is that typically to move back in on the Patriots, you need to give up a round earlier pick (or 1st to move into the first) in the next season's draft, which they avoided doing. Instead of giving up that valuable first next season, they gave up the amount of picks in this year's draft that essentially balanced out in salary cap hit, which is why it seems like a lot of picks. Those could-have-been guys could have great value. There are a number of very intriguing undrafted free agents as well that could, in three years or so, end up being more valuable than any pick the Vikings gave up. Putting a player name on it is akin to going back in three years and saying that a certain undrafted guy ended up being amazing, and he should have been the Vikings pick in the 7th round instead of a guy they ended up cutting. It ends up being revisionist history. You have to judge the trade purely on the picks and financials, not the "what-if" scenarios.
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Your last paragraph is the center of the contract discussion, though. The main argument is giving up too many picks for that one pick. They really exchanged the salary cap hit for this year and avoided giving up anything for next year. None of the contract arguments I've heard is that Patterson would be cheaper, it's that the amount of picks given up had to do with salary cap balancing.
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I would ask whether they could have afforded to have each of Brown, Bailey, and Jones/Okafor/Nassib along with Floyd and Rhodes this year without severely hampering their ability to pursue linebacking help in free agency.
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One of the points I actually agree with is that with three first round contracts, moving the picks they did does help them this year to keep money, and they did avoid the one thing the Patriots are notorious for: give us less of a pick this year (keep the 2nd), and we'll just take your 1st next year.
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Exactly. Third is a good spot for a talent-heavy, character-questionable type. Going early tends to blow up a lot. The problem is that people remember the ones that excel (Randy Moss, et al).
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In all seriousness, I don't spend a ton of time in the Twins forum, so it won't be an issue, but I may be cheering for Up, Up, and a Hey rather than the M & M boys.
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I will be cheering for the Twins 159 games this season. Everything but 3 games in May. Is that going to be getting me das boot?
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Who would have thought that this week's Braves/Rockies series would have featured the two best records in the NL?!
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Fun non-Twins number: the Braves are undefeated this season when scoring a run.
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USA Today founder (and local "celeb" - so extra upset I missed it!) Al Neuharth passed away
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Bo is a very interesting case. He was a .250/.309/.474 hitter, and that wasn't really adversely affected by his injury. His per-162 numbers were 47 walks and 196 strikeouts, and that's before striking out 200 times in a season was considered "okay". He's got a ton of helium as the greatest athlete ever because he hit amazing bombs and flashed tools beyond anything anyone had every seen in speed and power and arm. The problem was that his eye simply wasn't that great at the plate. His dWAR never graded well, which could be an issue with the statistic or it could be showing us that perhaps our visions of his stellar defense were skewed somewhat. He never had better than a 3.5 bWAR in any season, and while he only eclipsed 500 PA once in his career, a guy like Chipper Jones had three seasons in 2005, 2006, and 2008 where he eclipsed 3.6 WAR every season, despite only having 500 PA in one of those seasons (all of which were in his 30s). Based on all of that, I don't know that Bo would have given a team more than a mediocre average with power and speed, even in his best years (remember that he was able to still play his age 27 season before injury, so it's not as if he never had a chance to hit prime seasons). I would have imagined a .250ish/.320ish/.500ish guy. Valuable because of his arm in the outfield and his speed as well, but I don't know that he would have been the superstar in the modern era that he was before.
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Radke is a solid comp to Pettitte.
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Broadcaster and former NFL player Pat Summeral dead at 82.
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And if you cannot see the horrible connection you attempted to make, you truly may be worthy of outrage. As it stands, it's just logged for future reference as argument banter to refer to in future discussions. Along the lines of Mauer/Poser is equal to Lew Ford/Babe Ruth.
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The fact that you just used a rape analogy to attempt to support your point says so much. Unbelievable.
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If you have an MLB.tv subscription, enjoy this matchup this weekend. Call me a homer, but I truly believe these could be the two best teams in the NL, and possibly even baseball, this season. Game one of the series is a classic tonight.
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Of course someone was making THAT argument. Jeez indeed.
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You keep saying that, but every stat innovator would tell you different, from the guys at Baseball HQ to the guys at Baseball Prospectus. You don't ever see everything in any stat or group of stats because baseball has outliers and oddities that stats just cannot measure, which is why you always balance stats with scouting.
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And none of those are measured by the statistics you utilized to "prove" Mauer is not elite. Not arguing he is or isn't...just saying that any number of factors could mean those three things scouts view don't show up in stats. You end up arguing exactly against yourself by trying to insist that stats show one thing or another and then refer to scouting views that don't show up in any statistic. That's be like comparing pitchers on wins and then saying that scouting evidence on ability to repeat delivery proves your point.
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Exactly. For instance, tonight Evan Gattis of the Braves grabbed a tough breaking pitch from Mike Minor and whipped the ball to 2nd base in a perfect spot for Dan Uggla to put a tag right on Chris Valaika of the Marlins attempting to steal. Uggla applied the tag and promptly had the ball pop out of his glove. The boxscore says Valaika stolen base off of Minor/Gattis, but there is absolutely nothing more that Gattis could have possibly done to prevent that steal, so now Evan Gattis is 0/1 at throwing runners out in the game, but even the Marlins announcers were wowed by Gattis' handling of the pitch and perfect throw on the play. Scouting plus numbers is the only way to do it. Does any person watch every single game? No. However, unlike small sample size in statistics, a well-balanced viewing of a player (saw one game each month for instance) could provide a significant idea of HOW he does the job - for a catcher, how does he get out of his stance on a steal? how well does he move side to side blocking balls? do pitchers often shake him off? is he calling his own game or calling from the dugout? how accurate is his throwing arm? All those questions could be answered to a respectable level (not an infallible level, but a very good idea of normal) in 5 or more viewings of the same catcher spread over time.
