JB_Iowa

My thoughts were almost entirely the opposite. I am incredibly happy for the Tigers and for Delmon Young. And I really hope that they play -- and beat -- the Cardinals. I don't understand this hatred of rivals. I love the Twins but that doesn't mean that I hate any of the other Central Division teams. They are still the ones that I root for in the post-season -- and it doesn't matter if it is the Tigers or the White Sox (or Indians or Royals if they could manage to get in). My other big passion in sports is the Iowa Hawkeyes. Similarly, I root for every B1G team in the bowls and tournaments (even the Goo-fers). As I posted elsewhere when he was traded, DY was the big winner in the Twins-Tigers trade. He didn't take advantage of it the way I hoped he would this season but at least he came on strong at the end. Relative strength/weakness of the Central: Dombroski has been talking a lot recently about building this rotation for the post-season. The Tigers also have an owner who is willing to gamble on picking up the additional pieces they need. For all those who argue that the Pohlads did that for 2010 going into 2011 -- c'mon don't kid yourself. We all saw that the team wasn't good enough to compete in the post-season in 2010. What did they add for 2011 that changed that scenario? It comes down to a matter of philosophy. The Tigers seem to be willing to suffer some losing seasons for the possibility of a short surge (1-3 years) once a decade. The Twins don't seem to be willing to take that risk, instead preferring to idle along near the top but never reaching for that "star". Interestingly, neither team has won the World Series for more than 20 years. But the Tigers have advanced in the post-season. I can only hope that the misery of the last two years causes the Twins to re-evaluate their approach.

It all comes down to risk-reward. The Tigers have taken some big risks -- and have a pretty good chance at a huge reward this season. The risks don't bode well for a number of future seasons but that is something with which they will have to deal. The Twins are almost entirely risk averse and have a very conservative approach to running the organization. I actually think this may be part of why Terry Ryan retired earlier. He had a huge risk facing him -- trading Santana -- and he made it pretty clear that he didn't think he was the best person to deal with it. Now he's back but with a team that is in such shambles, he (and the owner) have to think that taking a conservative approach and simply returning the team to "competitiveness" will pacify the fans. He will still need to take smaller risks to acquire serviceable (note I didn't say good) starting pitching but it won't be the substantial risks that most teams have to take to be truly elite and compete in the post season. I don't think one can "conserve" one's way to a world championship -- I think you have to take some pretty significant risks (and yes, have some good luck too). I just think the Twins are going to have to be more willing to gamble if they are ever to bring another championship to Minnesota. Is now the time to do that? I don't think its the time to go "all in" but I'd like some demonstration that they are willing to do a little gambling instead of skipping the casino altogether.

This is a really good point. Not every player at every position has to exceed their "projected value". Younger players (before the last year of arbitration) should provide significant value above their contract amount. Then you should have somewhat older players who should meet or exceed their contracts (e.g. Denard Span). That should allow you to take some risks in acquiring other players. And, starting pitching seems to be the area where the Twins MOST need to take those risks. It may not work out but the team should have enough projected value from other players to cushion any blows.

It' s a matter of philosophy. The Tigers seem willing to suffer miserable seasons as long as they have a brief surge (1-3 years) once a decade. The Twins seem to prefer to idle along near the top but without ever taking the risks necessary to "reach for the star". Neither approach is "right" -- it's a matter of what you can tolerate as a fan. Neither team has won a World Series in more than 20 years. The Twins won more recently and twice but the Tigers have advanced in the post-season more recently and have at least played in the World Series. I knew where I came down on this question before the last 2 years and the misery of 2011 and 2012 haven't done anything to change my mind. I'd rather suffer multiple losing seasons to have a significant chance at "winning it all" than get to the playoffs regularly but never make it past the first round (or heck, with the Twins, the first game).

Delmon Young: Detroit's Mr. October? Obviously the media (MVP voters?) think so. ALCS MVP. As I said the summer of 2011, Delmon Young was the big winner in the Twins-Tigers trade.

I'd have no problem with that result but I sincerely doubt that the Twins would have GOTTEN to this series let alone win a game.

Well, I for one, am thoroughly enjoying the post-season and will rue the day its over. I don't care much about the off-season. Terry Ryan will do what he's going to do -- no matter how much people here debate the fine points of trades and acquisitions. And I will be extremely happy with a Cards-Tigers World Series (and will laugh at the broadcasting angst it will cause). Although I must admit I'm rooting harder for the Tigers than the Cards. I really want to see Mike Ilitch reap the reward of his big gamble.

Every time I see trees in other stadiums, I get sick to my stomach about that black hole at Target Field. There HAS to be SOMETHING that the can do aesthetically to improve things. This should be one of St. Peter's big priorities before the All Star game.

Give me strength if this is the kind of cr*p we're going to be speculating about over the next few months.

4th game, 4th inning and its fun and games CC falls apart. Gotta love it.

I'm happy for DY. He has had a pretty miserable season. I hoped that the "fresh start" in Detroit last year would be good for him -- and thought that hitting behind Miggy and Prince would be a great thing. But he has pretty much disappointed all year -- first with the abominable episode in New York and then with overall mediocre play. I still root for him and consistently checked how he was doing this season so I'm glad to see him having a pretty good post-season so far. P.S. Delmon, you need to stop going through the buffet line with Prince.

I'm still a little puzzled by his comments about Joe Mauer and 3rd base seeming like a "perfect fit". Could you figure out a way to artfully ask him if they have initiated (or will initiate this winter) discussions with Mauer about a move to 3rd (recognizing that it would probably be part-time for now).

Rod Carew also averaged 37 stolen bases a year in his last 5 years with the Twins (1973-1978). He was a table setter and he was very effective at it. Could Mauer do that? He can get on base but I don't think that his steals will ever approach 30 (this year's total of 8 tied for 2nd highest in his career). If the speed isn't there, you look for power -- especially in a man with Mauer's physique. And his power is declining. It isn't just the lack of home runs -- on average, he'll probably have about 10 a year. But his doubles are also down from 2010. Offensively it looks like 2012 is most similar to 2008 for Mauer. The big difference is, of course, on defense. Could Mauer have another offensive year like 2009 left in him? I suppose it is possible but he'll have to do it without the benefit of the Metrodome. I'm on the fence about trading Mauer -- primarily because of the same concerns that other posters have that the Twins won't reinvest the savings. But I also have a personal conviction that the Twins will never be a championship team with Mauer as a member. Not unless they invest in some other highly paid player who can change the character of the team and provide a different type of leadership. P.S. I thought that an OPS of 1.000 really defined an "elite" batter. Mauer has topped that in only 2009. He has had some other very good seasons but they don't meet that "elite" definition. Interestingly Carew also had one year of an OPS over 1.000 (I was a little surprised to see that he had even that).

No one would say that Chutzpah alone wins a championship. Of course, you always need hitting and pitching too. I'm the one who used the word but I'm not convinced its right. When I watch the faces of the Cardinals, I see a kind of calm confidence and self-belief. It's elusive -- and it isn't something that can be captured or easily explained. Just keep watching the faces and body language. (And for a contrast, think back to the Twins in post-season games. Weren't there times when you could just tell by their look and demeanor that it was over? I know there were times that I talked about it in chat.) Baseball isn't all statistics. It also isn't all luck. It's just that the demeanor/chemistry part can't be easily characterized. And John's right, it can't be planned for -- but when you see the same thing repeatedly (a la Minnesota), something needs to change and its always been my personal opinion that it has to start by replacing Gardenhire. He generally looked beat before they began post-season play.

Generally I boo the Yankees not specific players. I've never been really inclined to boo Jeter. And at least he has had the good sense not to get married and then continue to date all the women (and others) listed above. (But the gift baskets of memorabilia are somewhat disgusting to me). I do boo Alex Rodriguez apart from my general Yankee booing. Atlhough this post-season even that is toned down by his generally miserable appearance and performance.

I expect payroll to be at $91-$94 million (although I also expect Terry Ryan to cringe at spending that much). From a PR standpoint I just don't think that they are going to want to be seen as significantly cutting expenditures for next season. It is about spending wisely. It is also about being able to conclude at least one (I'd prefer a couple) meaningful trade. I think Terry Ryan will do the former (Jason Marquis aside). The jury is definitely still out on the latter. We haven't seen a significant trade out of this organization in a long time -- all we've seen is a few gap-fillers or not much of anything trades at the deadline.

No LaRussa? no problem. No Pujols? no problem. Down by 6 runs in the final game of the series? no problem They have the chutzpah that I've felt that the Twins have lacked for years.

What fun this has been. Can't wait for game 5. Go Orioles.

Three cheers to you all. You've done a fabulous job. I knew when it was "Twinscentric" launching the site that it would be great but you've far exceeded anything I could have imagined. Thanks to everyone -- founders, writers, administrators and posters -- you've created a great community.

I don't even understand why saying having Molitor on the coaching staff would be like having a "manager in waiting". Why would he seem more like a "manager in waiting" than say, Gene Glynn? I don't get the Molitor obsession. But then again, I'm not from Minnesota. I'll just think about it like the Mauer obsession. P.S. If I were Molitor and WANTED to coach or manage, I think Minnesota might be the last place I'd want to do that. Even though most of his Hall-of-Fame career was in Milwaukee, maybe he just doesn't want to risk the "beloved, hometown boy" status he has in Minnesota. It would be really easy to fall off the pedestal.

Fun read. Thanks for the link.

First, I don't consider the coaching changes to be particularly bold. I've felt -- and said -- for some time that they needed to be "bleeding in" new talent in the coaching ranks. And it's just now occurring to them that they need a Spanish-speaking coach? There have been cries for that around for a number of years. I consider the moves they made to be too little, too late. A couple of scapegoats and very little real change. (Yes, that may change next season but all they are doing is prolonging the bleeding). 2. Why is it that we haven't seen any front office changes except McWane? Bill Smith did not make his decisions in a vacuum. In fact, he probably relied on the opinions and evaluations of his subordinates much more than Terry Ryan does. The lack of front office turnover leads me to see the coaching staff as scapegoats for the failure of this organization. (Not that the coaching staff is blameless but WHY hasn't anyone other than Bill Smith been called to account for what they had to work with -- oh, and surprise me but Bill Smith still has a job with the club whereas Stelmazek and Jerry White don't). 3. Players -- I assume one of the bold moves you are looking for is spending some bucks on the free agent market. They've got the bucks to do so. The other moves would, of course, be trades. I'm not convinced that they know how to make trades anymore (other than piddling around). But yes, I'm looking for some pretty darn BOLD moves in the player arena -- they have to have the WILL (and ability) to make them and I'm not convinced that they do. 4. I want some evidence that they GET that they weren't all that good even before the last 2 seasons. They were above-average but they were definitely not top 30%.

It may have been the right call but it was stunning none-the-less. I was pulling for St. Louis but frankly the play -- and the call -- made me sick to my stomach. Overall, neither team was very impressive in this game.

Well, this argument is about semantics apparently. It is pretty clear from that quote that Vavra and Ullger have merely been reassigned (new positions created) but it is also clear thtat they WERE NOT FIRED or NON-RENEWED. And we all remember seeing how good Ullger was as the 3B coach a couple of years ago (heaven help us). But yep, this was pretty much a public relations ploy and nothing else. Leaves me with very little respect for this organization or those who run it.

I understand that the ones retained weren't all that much younger. I just think that the picking and choosing that they did was interesting. And no matter what, Liddle chose to announce in advance that he was retiring so technically the non-renewal of his contract was his choice.