ThejacKmp

1. Leadership is not something that has to be gained over time. Sometimes it is but other times, someone just emerges as a leader because they have those characteristics. Joe has never been a huge leader and he’s been around for a long time. That’s just not him. Other guys come in and are immediately leaders. Calling Reed and Rodney tourists is irrelevant name calling. 2. Similarly, Belisle’s success is immaterial. The biggest stars are not always the leaders, sometimes that’s another guy. Eduardo Escobar was a leader and he was a utility infielder for years. He was a leader because of his attitude and innate interpersonal skills. Guys understand that baseball is hard and that every team has roles – there’s no reason Belisle sucking changes how the players view him as long as he’s still giving his all and being a good dude. 3. Along that line, respect doesn’t come from your play, it comes from how you carry yourself. Most of the guys who become managers were terrible utility infielders and backup catchers, not stars. They became managers because they had the passion for the game and the leadership ability even when not good. Maybe especially when not good. Again, Joe Mauer was never a leader, even when he was the best player on a team. 4. The fact that you cite Torii Hunter is ludicrous. None of the players on the 2015 team knew him except Mauer. And he savaged Mauer in the press on the way out of town six years before. Torii was seen as a leader because of his abilities in the clubhouse and his veteran status (two things Belisle could have). Which brings me to . . . 5. The chief fallacy of your argument/diatribe is that you know that its hogwash that Belisle is valuable in the clubhouse. You have no concept of the inner workings of the Twins clubhouse. You can’t site anything where players don’t respect him. You’re conflating ineffectiveness on the field with ineffectiveness as part of the team. Ridiculous.

That said, every single article about a position player pitching features that narrative. The coach asks if they've pitched and throws them in there. I don't think this is Molitor, this is every team. It's a good idea to have this charted though. Only reason not to is that you want guys to not be thinking about it maybe? Seems kind of a lame reason but baseball's a head game.

1.) He is on the disabled list with a bad wrist. It would be detrimental to his healing process to play baseball games. 2.) Byron Buxton’s speed is his greatest attribute. Asking him not to take chances on the bases is like asking J.D. Martinez not to swing for the fences. Why would you do it? 3.) Major league games attract tons of media attention and fans. If a guy is working on something and struggling, you don’t want him to have all of that media attention. 4.) Minor league games don’t matter as much – it’s okay to tell a guy not to swing at anything except curve balls or to take a few pitches to work on hitting with two strikes. It’s hard to do that in the MLB when games matter and you can’t experiment as much. 5.) Minor league teams have hitting instructors attached who can work one-on-one with a specific hitter. Those are not as prevalent at the MLB level, where guys are supposed to know what they’re doing already. I could come up with more if you wanted.

Yeah, this. Morrison potentially makes sense as a bench bat but only when rosters expand. If you get him in August 31st, you can use him occasionally down the stretch.

I mean, I could see a team liking Mauer as a LH bench bat if the Twins ate the salary but he's repeatedly said he doesn't want to go anywhere and can block it. Would seem a waste of resources and time to put a claim in on him.

If the Twins are going to keep Morrison through the end of August (seems likely) there's no reason to DFA him unless they need a 40 man spot (unlikely since they're swimmin' in them). The rosters expand and he can play a few days a week and be a vet. Unless he's upset about that (and I've never heard anything except that he's a good teammate) no reason not to keep him.

Lefty bats always have value off the bench down the stretch. If they work.

Depends on need. All it takes is an injury and your guy becomes interesting. I think you're likely looking at either the fringe reliever or the A-ball college reliever taken in the 35th round who has put up some nice numbers. That's usually doesn't turn into something but sometimes does. If the Twins had a Nick Gordon tearing up AAA, I'd be hollering for them to dump Forsythe. Or if Brent Rooker was tearing up AAA, Morrison should go. But since the alternatives are unappealing, keep the guys and see if they develop into something. I also wonder if there's a reputational benefit from not cutting Morrison. Hard to embarrass a free agent, even one who has performed as badly.

Crappier lefty bats have moved in August than LoMo. He also has an .824 OPS with 6 homers since July 5th. If he goes on a bit of a homer binge, not crazy to think he could be moved.

Keeping and playing Forsythe and Morrison makes complete sense until the end of August. Both of those contracts will make it through waivers and if they get hot with the bat and a contender has a 2-3 week injury at second (Forsythe) or wants an extra lefty bat off the bench when rosters expand (Morrison), they could bring something back. You’re not getting anything great but even lottery tickets are better. It would be one thing if they were blocking realistic options for next year but thus far Forsythe is blocking Gordon/Adrianza (not ready/not a long-term starter) and Morrison is blocking Austin/Vargas (fine waiting until September/Vargas). There’s little downside to playing these two and seeing if you can’t get something for them. Then when September 1 rolls around and the Twins bring up 3-6 young ‘uns, it also isn’t a bad idea to have some well-respected veterans around to help them with the transition, provide some mentorship. I’d be upset if Morrison/Forsythe are playing more than a few times a week in September but until then, let’s see what we can get and there’s absolutely no reason to drop kick them from the 40 man.

Really putting the huh in huhguy.

Yeah, what does that mean? That's a super weird statement.

You forget Pineda for starting pitching next year.

Two of the worst teams in the AL? Overstatement. The Royals are but the Twins are 9 out of 15. They're not awful but their playoff odds are not 0.

Oh man, I forgot Sidney Ponson. That was bad.

Oh man. Come find me here when Machado signs a ten year deal. He's 26, someone is going to give him that. I like the creativity above but someone is going to give him $30-$35 million a year for ten years. And an opt out after year four. That deal is fun but it won't beat the big market teams. Guys like him don't hit the market at the age he did and after the seasons he's had. Harper might not get that long of a deal but he'll still do well.

I think the question is, where are the gaps? I don’t know the market (someone else likely does) but looking at the Twins: Every team can use starting pitching, the Twins are no exception. The pen seems okay with a lot of young arms. I could see the Twins making a Reed signing but they aren’t going after the high-end types like Andrew Miller (although, Cleveland connection . . .) Seems more likely they do what they did this offseason with a few veterans. And that’s probably smart. The outfield could potentially use someone but it’s hard to see who the Twins would get. Rosario, Buxton and Kepler seem likely to start the year and Cave, Wade, Austin and Rooker are in the mix as backups. It’s hard to sign an elite free agent unless you give them an everyday job. I guess the Twins could get a corner OF and shift Kepler to a 4th OF/backup 1B/DH type but that seems like giving up early on him as an OF. I’m not sure the Twins have a real OF need, though someone on a short-term high dollar contract could be doable. Middle infield is a spot you could spend but it seems like more of a one-to-two-year situation with Gordon, Javier, Lewis, and Arraez coming up and Polanco already set. There’s no one for spring training next year but that seems unlikely to be true in September. Catcher is intriguing but there’s rarely someone amazing on the FA market and with Garver and Castro, that’s a decision that can be kicked a year down the line probably (when you’ll know more about Rortvedt). Not an obvious spot to spend. Third base is the one place the Twins could really spend on someone long-term. Sano is a bit of an unknown and isn’t a five year third baseman anyways and there’s no one pushing from the minors (though that MI depth could spill over to 3B if things work out well). But it’s a spot you could go get someone. Machado would work but he’s the premier free agent and will be hard to get. After that it’s Donaldson, Moustakas, Escobar etc. I’d love Escobar for three years to cover that 2B spot in 2019 and shift to 3B when a young ‘un is ready. First base/DH is another spot you could spend but outside of Nelson Cruz, it’s slim pickings there. Seems the Twins would be best to use a mixture of bargain bin, Mauer, and young guys like Austin/Sano/Rooker at 1B. So realistically, the only places the Twins have a need are 3B and starting pitching. Those are going to be interesting places to look. P.S. I’d actually say that weird, I could see the Twins in on Harper more than Machado. He seems more likely to want something with an out after two years and that wouldn’t bother the Twins so much since they have OF depth coming up. If they’re willing to gamble with a big front-loaded two years . . .

Man, I hope people don't really think the Twins are going to get Machado. Some big market team is going to give him 10-12 years and the Twins can't afford that. Big market teams can have $30 mill+ per year on one guy for that long and take the potential for 3-4 bad years at the end but small market teams can't. Anything the Twins offer (he won't be interested in the Bonilla thing, he's too young for that to matter), bigger market teams will match and exceed. If the Twins sign Machado for 10 years I'll be super worried. They'll have to be the highest bidder and that's punching out of their class. That's a lot riding on one guy not getting a lingering injury.

Yeah, they're lucky they didn't sign him, not smart. The two aren't mutually exclusive. For instance, the Angels were smart to sign Ohtani. And if he never pitches again on this contract, they'll be unlucky (but not stupid since they paid so little. Maybe a bad example. Oh well.)

Yes. The Twins clearly came into last year saying that they didn’t have a lot of obvious long-term needs except for pitching. They were only going to multiple years for high-end relievers (Reed) or starters (Darvish). They were in on both of those markets but didn’t over-react when the market went outside their comfort. They instead pivoted to guys available on one-year deals and spent aggressively, knowing that they had money to spend in the short term and wanted to preserve long-term flexibility. That’s smart GMing – know your priorities, follow your limits, pursue value. I said the market fell out on Lynn and Logan for long-term deals. The Twins swooped in and made competitive one-year deals (with a nice team option for Morrison if he did well, a great touch) that were in no way bargain shopping. The Twins signed guys who were in the top 10-20 free agents available. That’s a far cry from Rondell White, Tony Bautista, Rick Reed. I really think you must’ve only started watching the Twins the last five years if that’s your concept of shopping the bargain bin. The bargain bin are the guys who are two years past being productive. The guys who were in Japan a year ago. The guys who have been cut twice in the past three years. If you think that Lance Lynn and Logan Morrison would be sitting at home waiting still if the Twins hadn’t scooted in, I don’t know what to say. You’re not living in reality. There was interest for both of them but the Twins moved quickly to make competitive offers financially and PT-wise in an environment with a reasonable chance of competing (which is important to FA who want more exposure).

See but I think you're saying that it would have been a mistake. It would not have been. Five years $100 million is a reasonable price to pay for an elite pitcher if you're the twins. There's risk but the payoff is worth it. I think the thing I say the most on this site is Joe Mauer is the best. And the second is that we need to review the process, not the results. Hindsight GMing is worthless and unfair. The Twins handled Darvish well this year, getting in when it made sense and backing out once it didn't.

This to an extent. The sinking part. I would've signed him for 5 years. It was reasonable to expect him to be good for 2-3 years and then decline. $20/yr isn't crazy for a 4th starter, especially with inflation over a half decade. We've also all written off Darvish but there's nothing preventing him from coming back and having a nice years 2-4 on that deal. There's no TJ or major injury that anyone can point to. It's just hard for the Cubs to lose year 1 when you know years 5 and 6 won't be pretty. Glad the Twins didn't but I won't pretend I thought 5 for $100 was a stupid gamble for the Twins. It actually felt just about right to get a potential ace pitcher. (and FWIW I would've done the Arietta deal in a heartbeat as well).

Not being a crank a-hole in any way. It's c'est la vie. Just FYI, an easy spelling mistake to make. Stupid French. I concur on everything you said and think it's important to emphasize that the Twins tried to extend Escobar before dealing him. That was smart. And he was smart to want to hit the market. This is likely his only shot and a big kick down the stretch could really set him up. I'm assuming the Twins weren't dumb and didn't offer him a contract based on the expectation he will regularly lead the league in XBH.

Meh, I don't think its this. There's nothing inherent about the Twin Cities that makes a guy not choose it. Especially a summer sport. Guys go where the money is, period. The real issue is that for elite players, there’s always going to be more money in big markets. Those markets can afford tax payments, they can offer more years and eat the bad years, they’re just always going to win. It’s like me going to a silent auction with the Vanderbilts and the Du Ponts. When the fancy items come up, they’ve just got deeper pockets. If they want Manny Machado, they’re going to be able to make him an offer he won’t refuse. I’m going to be stuck shopping the next tier down. Which is fine – the Manny Machado contracts regularly turn bad and I might do better in that lower tier. But it isn’t going to be flashy. It isn’t anything but money. Players go where the money is.* * To a point. No one is going to the Royals. But the Twins have an exciting core and were in the playoffs a year ago. They’re not the Royals. Thank Flying Spaghetti Monster.

C'mon. Lynn and Morrison weren’t the bargain bin. How long have you been a Twins fan? Rondell White was bargain bin. Tony Bautista was bargain bin. Juan Castro was bargain bin. Lynn and Morrison were two guys who the market fell out on. Lynn’s qualifying offer, the (over?)valuing of draft picks, the desire of big markets to stay under the tax for this offseason, and increasing analytics meant that Lynn and Morrison weren’t going to get the long-term deals they wanted. At that point, the Twins paid fair market value for one year deals. Both guys saw a chance to come to a team that could contend and build up their value for 2019 when teams are likely spending again. The Twins didn’t play it cheap – they played it conservative. They weren’t in on either guy long term because they have a young team and wanted to keep payroll flexible. They waited out the market and made two smart signings. Neither worked out but that’s the way it goes sometimes. They weren’t in the bargain bin though. Maybe the sale aisle but that’s just smart shopping.