Riverbrian

As I mentioned in the post above... It may not have been as obvious as you suggest. The Padres didn't release him until August... He made 16 appearances for the Padres.

It doesn't have to be "satisfy ownership" directly. And it's an answer that none of us will be able to provide with certainty. But I'd imagine that both the Twins and Padres have their own valuations and each have a dollar figure attached to the draft pick and this catcher the Twins got in return and the trade satisfied both teams valuations. Teams have budgets, loose or hard but budgets none the less and maybe that 6M could be something we could throw at Free Agents this year (not that they will). Here's another thing to consider... Maybe the Padres called the Twins? Maybe Preller called the Twins and said "Hey Thad... We got some cash to play with here and we lost a draft pick when we signed Hosmer that we'd like to get back. Would you consider trading us a draft pick if we help eat some of that Hughes money and Thad was thought to himself... well we were going to release him anyway. Here's another thing to consider. It has been suggested that it was clear that Hughes was toast in spring training and that is causing the why did we wait to trade him discussion. You need to consider that maybe it wasn't clear. Even after the Twins ate a portion of the remaining contract and traded him to the Padres. Hughes made 16 appearances for the Padres out of the bullpen. The trade was made May 27th... the Padres released him August 16th (August 10th was the DFA date). Bottom Line: If an owner is sitting in his office demanding that a failed acquisition play at the expense of wins and losses just to avoid eating the money. I wish he'd make that public so I can file the divorce papers with certainty and move on to a different club with an owner that doesn't do that. That type of pressure is going to come indirectly from the owners (not just ours but all owners) when the released player regains his value after he was thrown in the garbage. In that scenario, the money will be an issue but secondary to the larger concern about the ability of the front office to make the kind of assessments necessary. In other words fitness for the job. That kind of pressure should make any front office slow down a little before they just start throwing babies out with bath water.

I think Brad Wesley had one of those things in the movie Roadhouse. Just in case the Double Deuce missed a payment.

In all seriousness. What Yarn and you are suggesting is a horrible horrifying thought. What you are both describing is dysfunction and an extreme form of it. Pohlad should know by now that mistakes are going to be made. And in any other business, mistakes are going to be made. When you extend someone or sign someone to a free agent contract there are risks involved. Signing Hughes to an extension was a mistake... to keep trotting him out there while he is getting lit up like a X-mas tree is a mistake on top of that mistake and that will kill a business. That roster spot he occupies will keep you from giving the roster spot to someone else who could actually increase in value. Bird is right... This couldn't be a Pohlad thing... If it was... I'll become a Brewers fan tomorrow because our situation would be hopeless. However... I'd be OK assuming that the Twins front office would need to be absolutely sure he is done before cutting their losses. Cutting Hughes and eating the money wouldn't be the problem... nobody would like it but the company has to keep moving forward. The problem would be the paying Hughes all that money and having him sign with the White Sox and then becoming decent again. After Hughes throws a shut out against us... That's when Pohlad calls Falvey into his office and says... that million dollar dump truck you pushed off the cliff seems to be working fine. Our competition recovered it, replaced the spark plug and they just dumped 15 cubic yards of dirt in our parking lot with it.

Million Bucks? That's one special dump truck. I'd like to see what else it can do besides dump things. Also... In your scenario... you are dumping a dump truck! That's like painting a paint ball or shopping for a shopping cart. That's Awesome. OK... I just had to type that... Back to the discussion.

Extensions are tough calls. I’d try to simplify the decision as much as possible by asking one question first. Is he the best we can do? Are the numbers we project the best numbers we can get. If Odorizzi projected numbers are the best we can do... it makes me shudder a little and I actually like the guy.

What took them so long?

I think these debates are necessary. I'm questioning baseball conventions right now and I'm questioning them hard. When I left the game threads, I ended up with time and energy on my hands. I spent that time and energy looking into what happened to my Twins. I traced it all the way back to 2011, I then started looking at the teams that were doing well and I started tracing them back. I ran across some examples of things working that were clearly different than what everybody typcially does and I wanted to share those things with my crew on Twinsdaily, I got crickets... So I continued which led to a smattering of we can't do that... because... (it won't work with the arcane model that has been in place for decades). I'm saying the Rays, the Dodgers, The Cubs are doing some things different and there is a reason that Brandon Hyde interviewed for nearly every manager job. There is a reason why the Rays staff was poached. There is a reason why the Dodgers are losing staff to other teams. I'm saying baseball is about to change and the things I'm talking about are going to hit you all between the eyes. The opener isn't the story of the Rays. The opener is a great idea but it's nothing. You take your guy in the 7th and move him to the 1st whatever. The living and dying with a starting rotation as we know it was challenged by the Rays (and A's) and the Rays won this round. This doesn't mean you don't acquire starters... The Rays just got Charlie Morton because they are still going to try and acquire starters because there is value in a guy who can go 6 or 7 innings... this is what I'm talking about... having your best pitchers throw the most innings... but if you don't have that guy... TRY SOMETHING ELSE... such as giving ROGERS more innings. But, you can't look at what I'm saying objectively unless you are prepared to take things out of their current boxes.

Please don't make me spend hours researching the many examples of players who produced better numbers in the majors than AAA. I will and you'll find the list lengthy but I really don't have the time... but I will. Also the Rays wasn't about the opener... It's just the part that everybody is talking about... and if you immediately think Opener when I bring up Rays. I began to realize that I really haven't prepared anyone for what I'm talking about in my posts and might as well be talking about earth revolving around the sun. What the Rays did was stay in contention with two starters and just one for a decent stretch... a good one in Blake Snell but he was the only starter they had for awhile. They traded away Archer and Eovaldi and kept ticking... only two pitchers over 100 innings for the entire year of 2018. They blew it out of the water. It's an unrealistic ask because we haven't asked it before.

Great Post Bullpen guys are easier to acquire at a lower price. Get bullpen serious and go get some guys. If we are overflowing with starters and we are... the extra's can be placed in the pen and be 3 inning guys like Rogers. All you got to do is think differently. What's the proper amount of rest for a 3 innings stint and 1 inning stint... If Berrios goes 3 innings... does he have to wait all the way through the rotation like he just threw 8 innings? You can see how robotic it has been. And I think this is something that can be done without question. Maybe Rogers is the right guy or the wrong guy but we got stop living and dying with a rotation and start figuring out how to get the ball in the hands of our best pitchers for more innings. Our best pitchers should be called "Innings Eaters" not the guy with an ERA in the High 4.00's who throws ground balls.

1990's thinking. MLB has starters who are tossing 97 MPH or higher pretty routinely now. We got Josh Hader throwing multiple innings out of the pen now. Not to mention the Drew Pomeranz, Brad Peacock, Collin McHugh, Kenta Maeda types who move from rotation to bullpen at the drop of a dime. Those walls are coming down. Albeit Slowly. Was Taylor Rogers a failed starter or did the Twins stubbornly try to force things with Tyler Duffey making 26 starts with a 6.43 ERA in 2016, Kyle Gibson 25 starts with a 5.07, Nolasco 21 starts with a 5.13, Berrios 14 starts with a 8.02 ERA, Tommy Milone, Hector Santiago, Phil Hughes and Pat Dean all with ERA's from 5.58 to 6.28 over 43 starts combined. That's 129 out of 162 starts or 720.1 Innings out of 1443 team total innings thrown by 7 starters who produced 469 earned runs totalling a combined ERA of 5.86. All of sudden Taylor's 3.98 in Rochester in 2015 doesn't look like a failed starter. He looks more like a guy who was brought up for a bullpen role and no matter how bad the starters crashed and burned... he remained in the bullpen role while the Twins just cycled through 5 starter rotation that has been done for decades. Finding 5 capable starters is perhaps the hardest thing a GM has to do and only 4 or 5 teams can honestly say that they found 5 in any given year and there is a big chunk of the remaining 25 teams that are lucky to have 2 of them. And then you factor in the injuries and you start needing 6 7 8 or 9 of them. And the data collected is getting larger every year and producing undeniable evidence that each turn through the order is becoming problematic and the Royals and the Indians were winning baseball games with a bullpen. Then the Rays come along last year and blow it all out of the water. One size does not fit all... If you say that they are all failed starters. We can never advance. They are labelled and done. I believe that there is middle ground between a starter going 6 and a reliever throwing 1 rinse and repeat.

Maybe but that's going to be a maybe once you tear down the walls. It's an easy no under old methods. I'm not talking about one inning at a time for 120 games with all of the warmups that a relief pitcher goes through. Taylor Rogers could throw 3 to 4 innings at a time. In 2015 he threw 174 innings for Rochester plus 25 more in the Arizona Fall League. Last year Taylor Rogers averaged 0.94 Innings per appearance every 2.25 games. (72 Appearances) Last Year Jose Berrios averaged 6.01 Innings per appearance every 5.06 games. (32 Appearances) I believe there is middle ground between these numbers that can be achieved. I don't believe that there are only two approaches that can be considered regardless if this is how it's been done for decades. If you want Taylor Rogers to throw 120 innings and if he's one of our top pitchers I would like to see his innings increased. How bout (52 Appearances) Averaging 2.30 Innings per appearance every 3.11 Games. Ryan Yarbrough for the Rays Averaged 3.87 innings per appearance every 4.26 games. It's just outside the box thinking. Something that could in theory prevent a team from throwing a 5th starter with a 6.11 ERA to eat 160 innings up. Give your best pitchers more innings to throw. If they get people out... let them keep getting people out.

I hope the walls are torn down between starters and relievers and the innings are allocated based on performance. If Rogers is our best pitcher... Rogers should throw more innings. Increase his workload from 60 to 120 or whatever in between... find out what he can handle. If anybody is our worst pitcher... don't give him as many innings. If we have a starter with a 6.77 ERA... there is no reason to call him an innings eater and have him eat innings while he is giving up earned runs. Simply move on to the next option or throw him less.

By the way, Plouffe he has become my poster boy of what has been wrong with the Twins organization but in this context. If Plouffe and his agent demanded that he was a 3B only. Or if the Twins demanded that Plouffe could only play 3B. Whoever made that decision just tied Plouffe down to the railroad tracks with the Sano Train coming and Dudley Do-Right is nowhere in sight.

I forgot about Flores... thanks for reminding me. I'd add Flores to my list of players who have "a chance" of replacing a decent percentage of any projected numbers lost by an injured or bummer like performing Sano or Schoop.

I think you under state how strong of a current this all swims against. The strength of the current, reveals itself just by the opposition I face on this website to sensible solutions to problems. Not to mention, the hard calcified baseball conventions passed on from teacher to student and arbitration compensation models that are now out-dated but still have real life influence on pocketbooks. But in the end, I don't care. If you want to get where you are going, you must jump into the current and swim against it. And most importantly, precedent has been established. The Rays, and now the Dodgers and Cubs have jumped into the water, with the current and are thriving in the waters of rejuvenation baby. Anyway... Let's get back to Eddie and his agent. Eddie... this is your career and you got to do what's best for your career. I really can't advise you so I won't try... but... if... well... I'd start with getting a new agent. Hold on... sit down... I'm sorry that was harsh... Ash... I didn't mean to insult you... Me and Ash go back a long way Eddie... it's the way we talk to each other, I obviously didn't mean that, I think the world of Ash but yeah... you need a new agent... you are getting some horrible advice here. Hosmer? Cain? I find it interesting that Ash failed to bring up Moustakas and that is what agents do. They talk about highlights and keep the low lights out of view in an attempt to mislead me and unfortunately misleading you at the same time. You don't get the whole picture this way... The agent says Hosmer triumphantly and you are thinking... Hosmer yeah... 8 years... yeah... That's what I'm talking about but Moustakas turning down a QO and settling for 5.5 million dollar deal is conveniently glossed over in an effort to mislead you and me and get a cheap like from Chief. Did Hosmer get all that he could get just having the Royals and Padres interested in his services... I can't answer that but the same market principles apply to Hosmer, that apply to Moustakas that apply to Cain and that apply to Lance Lynn and Logan Morrison... Supply and Demand rules the... Did Ash mention Brian Dozier. No... He really didn't... did he. Brian Dozier is currently sitting in a 10 deep pile of available 2B free agents and maybe 5 jobs for them. I wouldn't scoff at what Eduardo Escobar received or what Marwin Gonzalez is gonna receive until you see what happens to Dozier this year who was once the top 2B in all of baseball. Believe me I know... I tried to trade him the year before and we couldn't get a decent offer for him so we didn't make the deal. Supply and Demand my friend... Supply and Demand. Anyway... this is going to be a real long meeting if we start looking at both sides of the ledger. Ash... you've had the supply and demand talk with Eddie right? Or are you talking to him about how you can sell ice cubes to Eskimos instead. Supply and Demand rules the market place, always has and always will. Being proficient at multiple positions increases the demand and that is obvious to a first year economics or marketing student in the first semester, while moving you into a world of limited supply because baseball hasn't advanced to where it should be but will be soon. And let's talk about that... Is Cody Bellinger another Eduardo Escobar? Is Kris Bryant another Marwin? Why would you let your own agent who is supposed to be speaking up on your behalf attempt to throw you into a bucket like that? And we can talk about this bucket... because your agent just brought up Escobar and Marwin in a negative context to make a point. He's attempting to mislead you and me at the same time by talking about Escobar and Marwin in a negative context and not talking about Bellinger and Bryant in a positive context. You are not getting both sides of the picture. The utility guy used to be the guy who didn't get a starting job and became the guy who filled in at multiple positions so the utility guy has always had a less than talented badge on it's sleeve. Bellinger and Bryant and before him Zobrist have smashed through that wall. At the end of the day... If the two of you come to conclusion that you are going to make more money and have a stronger career by refusing to play another position to help your team and career. If the two of you conclude that playing left field exclusively the rest of your baseball career is the best path to a multi year contract pay off. If you think it will help you get an extension from us or this stance will cause the Yankees to admire the way you stood for your principles and therefore pay you more... then I totally understand that you have to do what is best for you. I'll tell Granny that her cookies were a hit, now if you excuse me... I gotta make some calls, it sounds like you are going to force me to bring in a third basemen to back up Sano and I'm gonna have to cut your friend Jose Berrios to make room for him. It's been pleasure... Ash... Anytime you are in town... Give me a call... we will have lunch.

I’d have a sit down with his agent and him. I’d look him in the eye and say with complete honesty. “When you reach free agency more doors are open for you when you are proficient at multiple positions because some teams have OF filled and need a 2B and some have 2B filled and need an OF. The more teams that can use your services, the more bidders for your services... the bigger the contract... so do yourself a favor and consider the big picture implications of your hardline stance... help yourself and your baseball team at the same time and let’s win some baseball games. Do you want a cookie? My grandma baked these. They’re fantastic”. It’s why I’ve said before. If I’m Tyler Austin... I’m begging for the chance to play OF. If I’m Trevor Plouffe I’m begging for the chance to play OF. Demanding to play only one position is naive and short sighted and that doesn’t even consider a flat out selfishness by refusing to help your current team address a need. The very second you express it... you just shortened your career and cost yourself money.

If you are correct. It would mean that the organization threw away an at least “average” infield defender for the sake of a locked in role or consistency and the possible consequences of that are: Keeping a Cave in the minors to play a Motter when an infielder is needed. I’m not saying that happened. I’m saying that type of roster management and playing time deployment is possible, actually likely as a result of closing that Rosario playing infield door. Again I’m not saying that Rosario should have been permanently moved to middle infield but removing any consideration of him ever playing infield again, can and will force a team to deploy a Motter like option over a stronger outfield injury replacement option.

I have no idea but if this thought is explored as a possibility and not simply dismissed because of typical baseball conventions of strict roles and speciality that has been happening for decades. It creates room to bring on a DH only like Cruz. Because now Rosario can fill in for Sano after the bad slide lands him on the DL. This is why I keep repeating myself on the importance of moving this direction. I’m not talking about forcing a player not capable of playing a position adequately. I’m talking about guys like this not being identified because they have been locked into positions. Again... no idea if Rosario is capable as an IF but if he is or was as a 2B in the minor leagues. The advantage was wasted and resulted in more Taylor Motters on the roster than necessary. I simply don’t know if Rosario was moved off 2B because he wasn’t capable or because OF was the quickest path to the majors because of the presence of Brian Dozier. But I do know that teams will move players to different positions because that’s where the need is and I do know that most team will leave them at the 2nd position for consistency and the book on the original is closed forever.

I forgot about Solarte... Yeah... He's an upgrade over Adrianza. And I actually kinda like Adrianza as well but I'm not believing in a higher ceiling than what we've seen. Hope I'm wrong.

You are starting to state my issue with the signing of a DH only. It takes a roster spot and leaves you exposed elsewhere. I'm not going to be even close to comfortable with Adrianza backing up Sano and I'm not planning for 162 games out of Sano. So... if you are going to sign Cruz... And I'm fine signing Cruz because I love his bat. You are going to need a player who can backup SS for you and at least provide a portion of the power lost while Sano is down at 3B for me. So... Give Texas a call and check on Profar pricing. Give Houston a call, see if they are tired of Aledmys Diaz yet. Call the Dodgers, Seager will be back, they are trying to move things around in preparation for next year. Maybe we can get a reasonable price for Taylor or Kike. Pull a fast one on our buddy Escobar, Call Arizona make a deal for him when he isn't looking. Surprise! or check on Ahmed. Take the PR hit with Addison Russell, Take a look at Tim Beckham, Asdrubal, Harrison, Lowrie... Consider Schoop for a SS fill in. He's played there. Take a chance on Tulo. There are options... but the bottom line... I'm all for signing Cruz because his bat would be awesome in the middle of the order but when you sign a DH only... It carries roster consequences unless you take an additional step to address them. So if you sign Cruz... you better piggy back him with somebody else so you don't give back your gains by having Adrianza playing 3B for a month or more after a bad slide. If signing Cruz means Adrianza as the backup at 3B... I'm out and out quickly. If Signing Cruz is combined with a complimentary piece to address this concern... I'm in and in quickly.

It’s too soon and not enough stable data to drop him into the short end of a platoon. Trying to protect him against right handlers won’t help him. It will kill him because if he isn’t allowed to stabilize his right handed numbers he wont have a career. I’d like to keep him and play him and see if he can hit 40 homers with 500 Ab’s And you are right Cron and Cruz are going to be complications for keeping him. Unless he can be moved back to the OF to separate himself from the power hitting 1B/DH puppy mill that is spitting out Crons and Bours. I agree with what you are saying in a broad sense. Just specifically strongly disagree that his stats suggest anything yet and definitely don’t want to consider the short end of a platoon because he gets branded too early. It’s all good.

Exactly Great post. The Book has not been written on Tyler Austin. Will he get a chance will determine how the story goes.

Maybe... I have never been to Trenton or Scranton to witness Austin in the OF myself. However, the path of least resistance in the Yankees organization was clearly 1B. It makes sense on paper to move a player from OF to 1B in their context. Leaving the questions: 1. How much was defense a part of that decision to 1B. (I sure wish the Twins would have gave him some OF starts in September). 2. Was the Twins not playing him in the OF a clue to his ability or was it just the Twins being the Twins, locking players into static roles and not being able to deviate from it, like they have consistently done. 3. Why didn't he win the Yankees 1B job. It wasn't like the Yankees had anyone holding it with both hands.

Too late I gave Adrianza's spot to Murphy so he is no longer an option. No Take Backs. I threw away the key... You can't resurrect my decision. Besides Adrianza was immediately claimed by the Angels. I see what you are trying to say here but it's not going to work with me. I've been too broken record on the topic to stop or get tripped up now. If a Manager can't figure out how to deploy Schoop, Sano, Murphy, Cron and Cruz with 4 roster spots. He shouldn't have the job and sadly, if Baldelli can't figure it out, the Orioles will get there before we will because they just went out and hired Hyde for the job and you can bet that Hyde knows how to deploy Schoop, Sano, Murphy, Cron and Cruz for 4 roster spots. There are teams that actually strive to have 5 players for 4 roster spots and think it's wonderful when they do. I'm also sorry to inform you of this... I hope you are sitting down and please gather your loved ones around because they will be the ones who will sincerely say "there there" after you hear what I'm about to say. Here it goes: "You'll never have the team you want, unless you have a manager who can figure out how to deploy Schoop, Sano, Murphy, Cron and Cruz for 4 positions or their equivalents". 4 right handed hitters and a lefty and the manager can't figure it out? Also... a GM who thinks that Adrianza for a month or two or five at 3B for Sano after a bad slide is OK as long as we have Cruz at DH isn't going to give you that team you want either.