Twins33

Has there been any me too stories where a guy says something like "do you want to have sex?" to a woman just once and he's hit with a sexual harassment claim? I know I haven't seen any. I'm sure it happens on a rare occasion, but too rare to worry about it. It just feels like we're trying to make men seem dumber than they actually are. Like they are now unable to even talk because everything is wrong. Which no one is even saying or implying. I still think there is a very clear difference. And asking the other person for consent is not part of flirting. That goes over the flirting line. If the interest is mutual, she will not cry sexual harassment. People aren't going to, and haven't been, crying sexual harassment over one consent question. If a person is worried about getting hit with that claim then don't say whatever they're going to say. Have some self control. If the person can't do that then maybe it is better that they don't talk to women at all because knowing how to interact with people is an important skill everyone should have. Knowing what to say and not to say to the opposite sex should be known as a teenager. We shouldn't have all these men walking around without a clue. And sure interacting with coworkers is different than interacting with strangers. Personally I would never flirt with any coworker. That's the easiest place to get fired. You're both their to work. Shouldn't happen. The risk is on those people who do it. Still applies if you go out after with them outside the workplace. Why risk the job? Makes no sense. And just because someone is your friend, doesn't mean they will take it well. I have plenty of friends who would never allow the off color jokes. All of them actually. I know that because I know them. Know how to read people. It sounds simple because it is. We need to stop making men/women more dumb than they actually are. You mentioned another good point. Men mistaking a woman's friendliness for something more. Happens all the time. Good to assume that just because she is nice to you does not equal consent. Lots of men don't get that. They expect something out of it. There's a thing called dating. Do that several times and get to know a person before making advances. 95% of women aren't going to cry sexual harassment by being asked one consent question, especially if you are in a dating relationship. And flirting with someone, friend or stranger, is not going to get you hit with sexual harassment. These boundaries need to be understood starting now and those who don't follow them have to now be careful because as I said, women aren't going to put up with our bs anymore. And they should not have ever had to. I make it sound so simple because it is so simple. People aren't out there claiming sexual harassment about one consent question. This is not a problem and we need to stop making it seem like it is. It makes a mockery of this movement and of women.

id like an example of what you would think is the in-between. You can private message me if you're worried about someone taking issue with the comment. And yes, there has to be a way to express it...it's called verbal consent. Some colleges have gone as far as offering a written consent form. I think it's pretty easy to spot if a woman is interested in you or if she wants you to get away from her. You have to know where that line is and don't cross it. Personally, I'd also avoid anything that could possibly be on the fence, like these in betweens that may exist. There are a million ways to flirt without being sexual at all. The majority of women respond to confidence and intelligence. Both can be done without making sexual comments to a stranger. If you're unsure, don't do or say whatever you're going to do/say. It's very simple. I would suggest people, especially men, read these me too stories. These women are telling us what they no longer are willing to put up with. They are telling us where the lines are. A lot of these lines were already known, but they were crossed anyway. Here's a good article about sexual harassment vs flirting: https://www.bustle.com/p/flirting-sexual-harassment-are-two-entirely-different-things-women-know-that-do-men-6746759 The title of the article is flirting and sexual harassment are two entirely different things. Women know that--Do men? In my personal opinion, there is no gray area regarding flirting and sexual harassment. More and more women are no longer afraid to speak up. It's time to listen to them and change ways. If the difference is not known, it's time to do some studying and stop any bad behavior.

i never mentioned the law in this. I'm mentioning what the person who receives this comment is going to take it as, especially if that person is a woman. They did not ask for someone to come up to them and say those words and those words are sexual in nature. If they choose to pursue it further than that, it may proceed legally or it may not. And if it doesn't, that does not mean that it wasn't sexual harassment. Even if you can't convict for it, it's still sexual harassment. For the longest time, no one did anything legally about revenge porn. That doesn't mean that it was okay to do five years ago and now is not. It was always very bad. Not just rude or whatever minor "sweep it under the rug" words. I don't know what category to put something like revenge porn under, but again, just because people didn't do anything about it before doesn't mean it's not some form of an issue...I just personally don't know what to file it under as it's not verbal or literal physical action on someone's actual body. And no, that is another problem. Do not confuse flirting with sexual harassment. Going up to a woman and asking her out in a normal non-sexual way does not equal walking up to a woman and asking her to show her body parts to you. That is not flirting. That is being creepy and also possibly scares a woman because if you're going to do that, what else are you going to do? Are you going to keep going at her? Are you going to grab her? (Don't mean you specifically, just a person). Again, this is the problem. People think flirting equals "I'm going to get hit with sexual harassment for just saying hello" and no one has ever said that or implied that. It's simple, don't walk up to a man or woman and say anything sexual. The recipient is not a sex object they are a human being. There is a difference between that and flirting. If the difference between the two is not known, then no wonder women are so scared of men. There's always a right way and a wrong way to speak to another person and no one is going to be hit with a sexual harassment claim for saying non-sexual things. It's that simple. If any person is unable to walk up to a stranger and have a normal, flirtatious conversation and not say anything sexual than that just shows the sad state our society is in.

Never said that you were okay with it. You chose to take it that way. My only problem is your disagreement that it's not sexual harassment. "uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical behavior of a sexual nature." That request is uninvited. That request is unwelcome. That request is verbal. That request is of a sexual nature. I don't know how it can be seen in any other way. It perfectly fits the definition. There are people confused about what harassment is and that's a huge part of the problem. Then the other part is the people who know it's wrong and do it anyway.

I guess you're just never going to understand even with the official definition of sexual harassment, which the example you used completely falls under. Asking someone to do something of a sexual nature (showing them something that's treated as a sexual body part), is and always will be sexual harassment if it is not wanted. I do not know of another way to explain that more plain and simple than that. The definition of sexual harassment couldn't be any more clear. I hope that there are fewer people in the world who think it's okay to say something like that, because of these women who have come forward. It has never been okay to do it. It's been normalized and it needs to stop now.

But it is. Yell that to your coworker in an office and you're going to get nailed for sexual harassment. And it does not have to be done in the workplace or to a coworker for it to still apply. Harassment is usually done repeatedly, but it doesn't have to be. Here's the definition per a dictionary: "uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical behavior of a sexual nature." It is all the things you say, but it's also sexual harassment.

Right. It is a fine line, but I hope no one thinks drugs or alcohol excuses the bad behavior. If someone can't control themselves when under the influence, that is still a choice they made to partake in the drugs/alcohol. That and "boys will be boys" needs to be launched into the sun. We all have to be better and we have to hold others to that same standard (like don't let our friend keep obviously harassing a girl who has no interest). Just FYI, was not saying you were making excuses. Just pointing out that it can be used as one and it should not be.

same to you. I don't consider it "ignoring it" and maybe that's where we differ. If someone comes to me and confided in me an assault that happened to them, it is not my place to go run to the police or anyone else if they do not want me to. And it's not a case where I'm worried about losing that friendship. That's not the reason why I wouldn't say anything. If I only had the courage to tell certain people and I tell them not to do or say anything about it then my expectation is that. And they shall get the same thing from me when the situation is reversed. If someone went and told my story I would be mad and would wish I would have never told that person and some trust would certainly be lost, good intentions or not. And again, for me, it's not about caring or worrying about losing the friendship. It takes courage to tell even one person. And I don't personally feel it's my right, or even my obligation, as you put it, to go to anyone with that story if I'm told to not do it. It's a respect thing in my eyes. That may sound stupid but that's how I see it. Whether a person goes to the police or not, it never goes away, as you said. Even if a person is convicted and spends time in jail, the victim still has to deal with the pain for the rest of their lives whether the person was punished or not. If I'm someone they have confided in, I don't want to add more pain to an already painful situation. That's why I don't believe a friend or family member is obligated to speak up.

i would put murder under a different category. Neither is a good thing, obviously. Murder is definitely something that people will more than likely speak up about. Whether they are "obligated" is hard to say. Me personally, if murder is involved I'd speak up. I don't think, in an assault case, the victim or anyone else who knew (not talking witnesses, but friends) are obligated to say anything. The choice is up to the victim in that case. This type of thing has happened a lot in the last few months, victims confiding in people and those people keeping it to themselves because that's what the victim wants. There should be nothing wrong in doing that. They are protecting and supporting someone they know/love/care about.

I don't believe I did. You said that anyone who knew has a moral obligation to report so it doesn't happen to anyone else. My point is they do not have to do anything. If it happens again, it's the perpetrator's fault. Not anyone else's. It is completely unfair to force that kind of weight and guilt onto another person. Sure, they may feel it themselves along with any other feelings but they certainly do not have to say a word. There is no such obligation. None of this is meant to be a personal attack on you, I want that to be clear, but as the poster above me said it comes off as victim blaming (or blaming others vs blaming the perp). I would think, and hope, that's not your intention but that's how a lot of posts read.

If it has happened again, the blame is on perpetrator. Nick, or anyone else, did not make the perpetrator do this or anything in the future. They do not control another persons arms, mouth or mind. I guess for me, I'll never understand why it's easier to blame the victim or anyone they may have confided in rather than to blame the perpetrator who did this future hypothetical act.

See I think this is part of the problem. I've seen for months now other men saying: "man, I can't even talk to a woman now without it being sexual harassment." "Better not ask her for her number or if she wants to have a drink...it's now sexual harassment." Where is this coming from?! What women are saying asking a person out once is sexual harassment? I've seen zero instances of this happening. If a man is questioning if he can even talk to a woman anymore then to me that's way more telling. Either you're creepy or you're not. And you should certainly know the difference. If someone has to question how they interact with other people than they are likely not acting appropriately and some part of them knows it. What someone may think of as idiotic is considered scary to a woman. Why do we think it's romantic when we hear stories of a guy repeatedly asking a woman to go out for years? She's saying no for a reason. And then the men are proud when the woman finally give in and says yes. They likely gave in because they were tired of being constantly harassed. Why are men not stopping? This is not cute. Why do we teach girls they need to cover up because it gives boys bad thoughts? As a guy, I've never been told to cover up because girls will have bad thoughts. Why does this double standard exist? Why are women afraid to walk alone at night? Why are they taught that they should have their keys out and ready to get in their car quickly if they need to? Why are they also taught that they should put one of those keys between two of their fingers to protect themselves if necessary? I've never had to do or worry about any of this as a man. I could be attacked too, but it's not a fear that's constantly in the back of my mind. Why do young boys who sleep with a teacher get a high five? Why is it not the same for girls? Both times are equally wrong. Why are women considered sluts and men considered studs when they've been with a lot of people? Why do men think it's okay to compliment a woman's body or what she's wearing, especially in the workplace? If a straight man wouldn't say it to a male coworker then why are they saying it to the female coworker? She's not there to be sexualized. She's there to work. And if a man would say it to both, again, that's still being creepy and harassing the person if you do it repeatedly. Why do father's/brothers "jokingly" say that their daughter/sister needs to be locked in a closet/bedroom for thirty years in order to keep them away from boys/men. Or say "they've got guns" as a threat to the boy, serious or not. Never heard a man say this about his son/brother. This is something I've even said. I do not have a sister or kids (nor do I want any). We know why.

i don't have the link, but I've seen it posted elsewhere that it's a false 6% of the time. So, I'd say it's pretty rare when it happens. Think of how many thousands upon thousands of cases there are and 95% of them are true. Seems easier to me to not jump to the "she's lying" accusations (not saying you are, but a whole ton of people are). I've seen people bring up the names of five guys who were falsely accused and because of those five guys it means every woman is lying. There are people saying that. That's wrong.

ssshhhh

Are her family and other friends an accomplice too? She told them right away. If something is told to you, in confidence, you usually keep it to yourself while supporting them. Some circumstances may change that, but I don't think that applies here. It was her story to tell and if she didn't want anyone else to do or say anything about it then that is her right.

She did not work for the Twins. She would be a credentialed photographer for TD when she was in the target field photo well. That's great if that's how you would react, but that's not how everyone reacts. Plus it is already harder for women to get respect in jobs, without this kind of stuff. She wanted to continue doing what she loved and feared she would lose that if she spoke up. A lot of people feel this way, even men.

I recall similar words being said deep into the Dozier rumors last year. That led to nothing, which was probably a good thing. I want Darvish so I hope it's not a similar result.

I would assume he's talking about club record FA dollars, as that's what was written in a previous article before today's. So basically old and obvious news. Because of course he's going to get a bigger contract than Santana did. From an article five days ago: "How the Twins react when/if Darvish asks for six years and $140 million-$150 million — which would easily be a club record for a free agent — will be the test of their willingness to dive into the deep waters of free agency to add top talent." Again the words club record mentioned. I think in the article today, it was implied that he meant FA dollars based on this article. And I know there was one other which directly mentioned the Santana contract. So I'm 99% sure he did not mean 200 million.

The Twins were in on Smyly before the Cubs signed Smyly and before the Twins signed Pineda. That's what that says. They pivoted to Pineda once Smyly chose the Cubs.

I think people are just trying to think realistically. We don't know where this team will be in one year let alone four. We hope they extend some of the young core, but right now we only talk about them in terms of absolutes. They are FA in 2022 and we can't think otherwise until it happens. It would be nice to have a surprise player or players, but we can't count on it happening. The window doesn't need to close, and we hope it doesn't, but we can't say it won't either.

Even if he didn't wear it for that reason, the comments about how he wears it are on the level of http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/304/old.jpg

Doesnt seem likely that it's true, but at least it's a Pirates fan making up the lowball offer.

I'm good with that. While he's great, I hate trading a ton of assets for a reliever.

Swarzak just got your Rosenthal $ from the Mets.

Just a clarification: Cole has two years or arbitration and then is a FA. Archer has two years plus two club options (I'd be surprised if any team didn't activate those two options-they are way cheap for what he provides). So it's two years of control vs four.