diehardtwinsfan

If he was 19 and ripping up Elizabethon, I'd call him a propsect. At 21, he's probably near the bottom of the top 40. Appy league numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt, especially when the player isn't young for the league.

No evidence on Parmelee? He's 24 and hitting a nice .327/.459/.570 in AAA. Those numbers would make PCL players envious and look pretty middle of the order to me, even considering a normal drop off playing in the majors full time. Let you forget, he put up some pretty nice numbers last September too against AAAA/MLB pitchers. Sure, he didn't do that his entire minor league career, but the team also overhauled his mechanics, and sometimes these adjustments take time. No one is saying he isn't a question mark, but there's plenty of good reason for optimism too. Dozier looks... that's the key word. He's shown enough to earn some consistent PT, and while he's taken lumps he's improving. No on expects that right away, but you don't need ARod at short eitehr. League average is >.700 OPS. And his minor league career OPS is right around .800. Again, he has question marks, but there's plenty of good reason for optimism. No one is saying they will all go 100% the right way. It is a week division, and 100% isn't needed to compete there. What I'm saying is that there's a lot of good pieces in place. The younger players (Plouffe, Dozier, and Parmelee) will likely improve, but what we all agree is that presently the team does not have pitching. Even given Ryan's quotes, that isn't enough reason to simply blow up the team, but there's plenty of evidence that says that they have a far better chance of competing if they spend the 25M on pitching as opposed to beefing up the order.

I'd take Span for Cigrani straight up... Hard throwing lefties getting tons of Ks in AA aren't exactly easy to come by. The reds still have one other nicely rated pitching prospect too. I do think a package deal here with Span and Liriano makes sense, but I doubt the reds would want to part with that much AA talent. FWIW, Sickes graded the following guys: Cingrani B- (though given how he's done this year, I'd think this is going to go up). #6 overall Corcino B. #3 overall Hamilton B+ (also top 100). #2 overall Stephenson B. #4 overall. Getting one of these guys would be pretty impressive. I'm doubtful we could get two unless the Reds are more desparate than I thought. They have some nice pitching depth that fits nicely with the Twins needs.

that's big news.

There's a reason Bavasi got fired... most in Seattle think he's the worst GM to ever manage a baseball team... probably worse than Bill Smith. I don't think the Twins are on this list because they aren't tripping over themselves to get big name free agents. They definitely have taken a wiser approach and have managed a few good hits (Willingham, Doumit, and Burton) to one real disaster (Marquis). The Astros, if memory serves me right, were contenders and were bringing in pieces to get them over the top. All teams are going to have to do that. Let's just pretend for a second that everything breaks right for MN next season, they'd still likely need a 2B and some pitching help... The Cubs are good example of that not working too, but with their new GM, I doubt they will be going back to their free spending ways. Last point, the Twins farm system is partly bad due to injuries, but lets not forget that they had a couple of very bad drafts at the end of the Ryan era. That kind of thing comes and goes to an extent. Bill Smith, like him or hate him, did decently in this area. We will see how Ryan 2 fairs in a couple of years. The system is barren of high end pitching, particularly in the upper levels.

I know this is a bit off topic, but I'm really curious what you think in terms of who should be in the long term plans and who should not. I go through the roster and I see a team with a lot of talent missing some key pitching pieces. You see a perpetual 100 loss team. What exactly would you blow up? C- Mauer - star, locked in long term. Peforming well above average 1B - Morenau, gone after 2013, not doing well, but is showing signs of life. Parmalee - took some lumps in his first go around, but looking like a middle order bat. Will replace Morneau eventually. 2B - Casilla, league average at best.. but in general, crap. needs improvment. Also starting to get expensive. Carrol, a bit pricey and under contract for a year. Average at best. SS - Dozier - taking some lumps and presently below average, but is improving. It looks like he'll be an average or better SS, and his minor league nubmers back it up. Cheap and here for a while. 3B - Plouffe - looks to produce well above average at this position. Cheap and here for a while. LF - Willingham. Well above average and on a reasonable contract. Locked up for 2 more years. CF - Span - Above average and on a reasonable contract. OF of the future currently sitting in AA. Locked up for 2 more years. RF - Revere -playing well, but not well enough to be considered a long term solution. Still legit question as to whether he's a 4th OF. OF of the future currently sitting in AA. Cheap and here for a while. DH - Doumit. .808 OPS... Probably slightly above average for that position. Locked up for 2 more years. SP - Well below average. Signficant improvement needed here. Diamond is the only guy worth keeping around, but should be considered a back of the pen option, not a front liner. RP - Average. Some nice cost controlled pieces (Perkins, Burton is arb eligible, Burnett, and Duensing). Could use some help. To me, the obvious need is pitching. If Liriano wasn't a headcase in April and Baker didn't get hurt, this team would be considering buying another SP to make a run at things. This team won't be contending without some serious help on the mound. But a couple of wise FA signings, reasonable improvement from the youth, and one of Gibson/Hendricks stepping up, and this team would be a contender. I agree that it wouldn't be a 95 win team or anything of that sort, but in the weak central, they can contend. I don't think it's unfair to ask them to be a contending team in 2013. They could likely ship Morneau off and give Parmalee a full time job at first, especially if one of Hicks/Arcia/Benson is ready. Ryan could likely plug some of those pitching holes by simply trading Liriano and Span for pitching that can step up in 2013/14 time frame. I don't see how making this a contending team can be done without grabbing some help in free agency, but in the end, this team isn't that far away. Why exactly do you just want to blow it up?

Honestly, I think Parmalee, more than anything else, is the reason this team is doing well. The guy is a beast in AAA. I'm hoping the next MLB shot he gets will come with an every day position to let him work things out.

I'd tenatively say Benson... This season is more or less lost, but he put up some good results in AA last season. I suspect he's going to Rochester again next year. Gibson isn't that far behind either if he can prove he's back. Does Parmalee still count as a prospect? I'd argue he's looking more and more like a middle of the order bat as well.

old habits die hard?

this is always a fun time of year.... and in less than a week, we hit the "this is always a disappointing time of the year."

I'm sure he's fielding offers, but he's probably also asking for the stars... that's partly a negotiation thing as I suspect he will come down in price... but it's better than the previous guy who would flip him for the other team's nick blackburn.

Ideas worth floating are ideas that would make sense for both teams. I really don't see this making sense. Bundy is untouchable. Willingham is our best asset, and Morneau will be a better one if the Twins shop him next year. I'd probably be happy if the Twins flipped Willingham for Bundy. The reality is that unless Bill Smith takes over in Baltimore, that trade isn't happening.

the walks are huge... so much so that his OBP is nearly identical to his Elizabethon OBP despite the 50 point drop in BA... I'm hoping that's cause he's letting a few too many strikes go by... that, I think, is easier to fix than failing away at them. Collective prospect wisdom also ignores results. Buxton in my opinion is likely behind Sano, Rosario, Arcia, and Hicks.... Hicks and Buxton are basically clones, though right now, Hicks is getting the results...

I think it was me, you, and pig... maybe one or two others. I can kind of get swapping Arcia/Rosario (at least last year), but at one point, results really need to start weighing in on things. I get that with his Ks he needs to work on pitch recognition and contact, but this kid looks like a cleanup hitter who can also play above average defense in the corners. I have to weigh that higher than Buxton, no matter what his "tool" ceiling may be, because he's so far down and hasn't produced. Sano has certainly shown the power piece, but is still a work in progress, and I'd add that Arcia did much better in his first go around at Beloit too... You have to think that Arcia is an A- prospect at this point, and quite possibly a borderline A guy. Given his age, no way I can give Buxton anything higher than a B+.

Not to state the obvious, but TR should absolutely ask more than he can get for prospects, knowing full well he's going to ahve to compromise. If Bundy is on the table, I'd imagine that a deal would get done.

Perhaps, but it isn't nearly as bad as others here make it seem. People seem to forget that team has played .500 ball since May. Plouffe has replaced Valencia, Mauer looks more like the Mauer of old, and Morneau has improved on his April start as well. Dozier and Parmalee both are showing lots of promise and there's 3 guys in AA right now who all look like they could contribute sometime next year. I'm not saying they have a top 5 offense or anything, but I am saying that the offense is built to win games... It certainly isn't their pitching that's been consistenly coming through for them.

Becuase they have a lineup that can singlehandly win games now, and it only looks to improve.. Their OF will be better over the next couple of years, and better both offensively and defensively. Dozier, Plouffe, and Parmalee should all improve as well and should solidify themselves as average or better options for their positions. They need pitching... badly.

I think 80 wins in 2013 is fine... I think 80 wins as a goal is not. 80 wins next season means that some of the moves Ryan made panned out (which hopefully means that we have some starting pitching we can count on for 2014)...

this was the guy I had hoped they would have kept... Imagine Kubel and Willingham in the order together....

yeah this... It will be 3 wasted seasons before long, when it should be 2.

someone who is good with the kids....

From here, it looks like he's attempting to move expendable assets for pitching that help sooner as opposed to later. The real question is how much will he do in free agency, as I don't see any way for this team to improve in that area without making some additions via free agency... Even if he managed to strike gold and flip Liriano and Span for high ceiling AA pitchers this year and then do the same with Morneau and Willingham next year, I'd argue this team still needs pitching to compete in 2014. It has no depth there. As well, bad starting pitching typically leads to bad bullpens as they get overworked.... I suspect the pen in particular is going to be a problem over the next couple of months, even if the starting pitching were to magically improve. Repairing the pen means getting 5 decent starters and having ideally 2 more in AA/AAA that can step in quickly and not implode, and I don't see that happening without some free agency moves. I do think his draft alligned to this too. They drafted a bunch of college relievers who at worst profile to be pretty decent bullpen options come 2014, and if we are lucky, one learns a 3rd pitch and becomes an average or better starter. As such, I don't see this team having problems finding too much help in the pen around that time.... at least nothing that a Burton style pickup cannot solve. I don't consider myself to be an optimist or a pessimist. Dave's a bit over-optimistic on these forums, but he isn't as far from reality as you think when he says they just need pitching. 2 above average starters and this team is a fringe contender. I think the players would certainly be playing harder right now and then pen wouldn't be as shakey. This isn't a scenario where you just blow things up and start over. There's plenty of good stuff in the line up and not nearly enough on the mound. Blowing things up will mean a lot of .480 to .520 ball clubs which won't give you a great draft position and will waste the primes of many of the decent prospects that they have.

call up the Braves... I'd take Delgado for Liriano straight up.

This is the type of pitcher the Twins should be looking at... High upside and doing quite well in AA. There's some risk here that he never develops the feel for a 3rd pitch, but I do think that letting Cueller have at him in Rochester might be a wise move. Given the risks, I suspect the Twins might be able to pry a high ceiling low A guy away from the Reds as well... Not a bad hual, and I'd do it in a second. Perhaps a package with Liriano might get another decent AA pitcher to boot.