John Bonnes

#8, but with more upside than many ahead of him.

Mark Sheldon, who is MLB.com's Reds beat writer (and used to be the Twins) wrote a bit about the trade. Basically, he's surprised that the Reds, who he thinks have arms that are closer to major-league ready, didn't make this move. He opines that the Twins must have really liked Meyer. It was an interesting though. His write-up is here: http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/2012/11/29/span-to-nationals-in-trade/

Fwiw, Sickels ranked Meyer 28th overall pitcher in his preliminary list this year, so #50-65 overall seems about right: http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/10/8/3474586/preliminary-top-50-pitching-prospects-list-for-2013

I think it's just the opposite. I'm giving TR the benefit of the doubt. He's certainly earned it on trades like this in that past. Bartlett, Liriano, Casilla, etc. I'm just saying that I think anyone who looks at the national ranking of Meyer is going to be disappointed. I don't see him being a top 50 guy. I'm not sure he will be a top 100 guy. I could be wrong. Like I said, this isn't my area of expertise. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what he's ranked. It matter what he does, and in that, I trust Ryan and Twins scouting. But I'm a little surprised they couldn't have gotten say an additional player that they also liked. (Of course, maybe they were offered a higher ranked players, but not players that they liked as much.)

In my mind, a 22-year-old college pitcher SHOULD dominate Low A, and probably should dominate High A. He certainly didn't do the latter, with a K rate in the 7s, albeit in 39 innings. Now, maybe he was tired or something, I don't know. I'm not saying he hurt his value. I just don't think he necessarily helped it.

Entering the 2012 season, BP ranked him 5th overall among the Nationals prospect, giving him 3 stars, which is a C prospect. BA ranked him 6th overall. And I don't see a lot in his numbers last year to have changed that opinion of him. I won't dicker between calling him a C+ or a B-, and I hope he's a C prospect with some upside, but a K/9 or 9 in High-A isn't exactly other-worldly stuff, no matter what his velocity. I don't know that I would rank him in the same area you would. I'm also far from sure he'll be a top 50 prospect, or even top 100. But I'll admit, I'm far from an expert on the status of minor leaguers.

jctwins - just something we're trying. I wanted to make sure visitors to the front page could find all the smaller stories that are unfolding in the forum.

This is the kind of trade with which I trust Terry Ryan. Trading an established guy for a lower level minor league guy with some upside. I don't know if Meyer is more than a "C" prospect at this point, and his real test should come when he gets to AA next year, but that may be why he's available. I am disappointed that the Twins didn't get any pitching or middle infielders to help them next year.

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?1205-GM-Meeting-Rumor-Mongering-Thursday-Edition

I'm not totally opposed to trading away Josh Willingham, but I do think people are underestimating just how rarely the Twins have been able to find a right-handed slugger like him. If I was going to do a story on this (I still might) each of these points might make a nice paragraph, but I'll throw them out there an let you react to them. 1. When was the last time the Twins had a right-handed slugger like Willingham? I would posit that it was 1988, when they traded away Bruno for Tommy Herr. Since then, Hunter and Cuddy have been close, and both had a middle of the lineup presence and both left for much better money. 2. When the Twins have Mauer and Morneau, both left-handed hitting, I can't blame them for trying like hell to have that guy on the roster. (If Parmelee replaces Morneau, that doesn't change things.) 3. That was the whole reason for trading for Delmon Young. 4. It's even more important than it has been for the last 25 years because they now play in Target field, and right-handed pull hitters are seemingly the one hitter that can thrive there. I understand that people want to treat Willingham as a stock and "Sell High" but it's not a great analogy. It's not like he can just be moved to a similar stock - there just aren't a lot of guys with that kind of pull power ont he market. About the only way I can justify moving him is that the Twins need to rebuild for the next TWO years, and if that's the road we think we need to travel, than there are whole lot of other moves that need to be looked at too, like targeting a whole bunch of AA-AAA pitching prospects.

THE story in Boston seems to be 'Chasing Mauer", partly because the Sox have inquired but mostly because a couple of media members there seem to have a thing for him and keep banging that drum. I think Stark is covering it because of that, and I think the Twins are reacting as strongly as they are because of that.

I'm not sure it's true in this case, but I think it says more about how rumors are generated than anything else.... 1) Ever notice that there are always more rumors about players that have been on a team than new players to a team? I think that's because the local media KNOWS these players. They can say "Hi" to them. And the easiest question to ask is "So, have you talked to the Twins?" We hera about Liriano and Pavano because a Twins beat writer is unlikely to stop and ask (random free agent starter) about the Twins, but he'll stop and talk to Frankie and Carl. Anyway, I almost always take these rumors about returning players with a large grain of salt. 2) In this particular case, I'll speculate that Frankie's agent would be more than anxious to publicly hint at any kind of interest the Twins had with Frankie. He's trying to rebuild some value for a guy that has all kinds of questions about his stability. What better way to do that than to point out that the organization that knows him best is open to him returning?

I'd just like to go through the teams you mentioned.... Phillies - Have lots of money. So much that the speculation is that they're chasing Hamilton and could drop back to Bourn. Span being cheap isn't unvaluable, but it also isn't necessary like it was for the Braves. Texas - ditto Rays - Lots of pitching and they need a CFer, and they need him to be cheap. But here's the thing - they were never going to be "in" on any of these bigger free agent center fielders. If a trade was going to get done with them, it could have been done weeks ago. And losing Upton and the Braves off the market doesn't hurt their bargaining position, just the Twins. The Twins and Rays might yet come together, but at this point we can assume they have talked and didn't find a deal. And at the very least, this hurts the Twins leverage. Reds - I just don't see the major-league ready pitching that Ryan is looking for in this organization. I think they can work out a trade, and that trade might net them some future arms, but that is looking further to the future than I think Ryan wants to look. So, yes, there are still fish in the sea, but I don't find them nearly as appealing.

I'll add one more thought that might draw a reaction, but I'll stand by...I'd much rather the Twins sign Pavano for that #4 spot next year than sign Baker for that spot if they couldn't get an option year. Not to mention, I think he'll be half the price.

I want long-term solutions, too. So here are your options... 1. Pay a lot of money for a top-notch free agent... 2. Make a trade that gives up some valuable players/prospects. I can see the Twins doing both - ONCE. After that, they still have two spots to fill. When I (and I assume others) say I'm not opposed to Pavano, it doesn't mean as the premier signing of the offseason. It means this rotation is gutted right now that having a guy that throws 200 IP at a league average ERA at the back end of our rotation would be a significant upgrade. Look at it this way: Diamond (even according to Ryan) is a #3. I'd be thrilled with Pavano being the #4.

I agree on Hochevar - nobody is touching him until he's non-tendered. Double-checking Chen's salary, he could make as much as $6M with incentives.

Jeff Passan from Yahoo Sports is reporting that the Royals are shopping Bruce Chen and Luke Hochevar. Chen makes $4.5M last year and posted a 5.07 ERA but threw 191 inning. Hochevar had a 5.73 ERA and threw 185 innings, but is just 29 years old and a former #1 overall pick. He'll likely cost about $5M but had a 7.0 K/9. Home runs killed him. I can see the Twins looking at the salaries being thrown around here and nibbling at these guys. It seems like they've always been impressed by Chen.

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?1204-Braves-Signing-Upton-Hurts-Twins-Trade-Options

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2763[/ATTACH]Minnesota Twins fans finally have a mildly good reason to push the panic button. It wasn’t that Scott Baker was leaving the team – without an option year, his value the year after Tommy John isn’t particularly meaningful. It certainly isn’t that (gasp) other free agents starting pitchers are signing elsewhere – especially when only a handful have changed teams and there are an inordinate number of good starting pitchers on the market. And MOST OF ALL it isn’t that the Twins have dared to sign minor leaguers, which is business as usual for this time of year. But if you want to push it, go ahead. Because yesterday, the Atlanta Braves agreed to terms for center fielder BJ Upton. For Twins fans hoping for long-term upgrades to the Twins starting pitching staff, this is the worst news this offseason. The Braves have plenty of young (and affordable) pitching like that, and were in the market for 1) a center fielder and 2) right-handed power. What’s more, they had to be affordable, since the Braves are working on a corporate (inflexible) budget. Both Denard Span AND Josh Willingham had been floated in rumors from the Braves media entities, and it wasn’t out of the question that they could be attempting a blockbuster deal for both. Upton IS both. He’s a centerfielder, who hits right-handed and has hit 51 home runs over the last two years. And they got him for about $14M/year, which is just a couple of million more than Span and Willingham would have cost. Upton was the linchpin of the offseason for the Braves; he was the one player available to fill both needs at a reasonable price without trading away their starting pitching. The Twins and their fans will need to take solace in the cliché of the other broken-hearted: there are lots of other fish in the sea. There are. The Rays will need to replace Upton, the Phillies are actively courting center fielders and the Reds have been mentioned as a possible landing place for months. But the Braves represented the big one that got away. They were the single best option this offseason when trading for major-league-ready, affordable, young, top-half-of-the-rotation starting pitching. If the Braves had missed out on Upton, the Twins and Braves would have made stunningly good fits for each other. Without them interested, the Twins didn’t just lose one name from the “demand” side of the equation, they also lost their best trading partner. But at least Twins fans have found a reason to push the panic button in 3 …. 2 .... 1 ….

Damn. Uptown was th linchpin to the Braves offseason, because he gave them CFer AND power. I doubt theyre looking to add much more now.

I don't know that he is viewed as significantly more ready than Deduno, De Vries or maybe even Walters right now. I think the Twins would like him to outpace those guys in spring training, but if one of those guys has a better spring, I can see them going with someone else.

Aaron and I talked a little bit about Ryan's comments about finding some competition for Trevor Plouffe in our last podcast. In his latest scoops, Doogie takes it further than I did, sounding more like Aaron.... That would seem to contradict what Ryan said in his 2013 Offseason Handbook interview: I won't believe they'll sign anyone to replace Plouffe until I see it. I could see them adding a left-handed option. (St. Paul's Jack Hannahan?) But of the problems the Twins needs to address, this needs to be towards the bottom of the list.