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John Bonnes

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  1. Yeah, I'd go back to that era too. What year did they lose Hisle and Bostock? 79? I think that would have been my favorite. After trading away Carew the year before, things just felt hopeless. And it's not like they had had any real hope of a postseason run that decade. Late 90s were pretty bad. I see a lot of hand-wringing about losing 96 games as if it matters once a team gets to 90. Five years of that, along with trading away Knoblauch, Kirby's eye, and a bunch of guys who were far from highly touted prospects - that was a much darker time IMHO.
  2. For future reference, please feel free to name and even link stories form other sites, including TwinkieTown.com. We want TwinsDaily to be a gateway to Twins discussion, no matter whether people view them as a competitor or not.
  3. Just found the BA list for 2011. Turns out we were both wrong. The Twins ranked 12th: BaseballAmerica.com: Prospects: Rankings: Organization Talent Rankings: 2011 Organization Talent Rankings
  4. FWIW, (and I don't have Baseball America's or Keith Laws 2011 organizational rankings handy) I don't think that's accurate. I seem to remember talking on GATG with Aaron at the beginning of last year (which was shortly after Ryan had been hired) about how the farm system was deemed below average. That isn't saying those services were accurate, but I don't remember the Twins being ranked Top 10 nationally when Ryan took over for Smith. How would Ryan's actions vary if late October was the ultimate goal, rather than a division championship? It seems like you have something in mind.
  5. I'm always hesitant to get too high on my horse about this issue, because the chasm between reality and perception is just so far apart. We're reading tea leaves here, people. I'll give an example. If the Twins wanted to end this sort of article for good, the solution would be fairly easy - just go out and hire a high profile guy from Baseball Prospectus to serve as a consultant to their analytics area. Instantly the perception would change. There would be a flood of stories about the Twins figuring things out. Better yet, hire that person as a spokesperson for what they're trying to accomplish, giving very little information but toeing the sabrmetric line on how important strikeouts are or how fx data can be used or catcher framing or the next hot topic. But it wouldn't necessarily change anything but the perception. And my second point.... As I read this, I wondered if most of the teams mentioned - the Rays, Indians, Pirates, A's - also had something else in common: they went through a dry spell. And in each case, it lasted a lot longer than three years. And that includes the Twins back when they were getting rave reviews a half dozen years ago; they had success after a long dry spell too. Perhaps success in MLB is just plain cyclical, and after a decade of success, there is going to be a dry spell while an organization reloads. That doesn't mean they shouldn't investigate ways to improve like Mackey is suggesting. They should. That's part of what losing teams should be doing that makes them better. But I'm hesitant to attach too much importance to visible hires of sabrmetric darlings.
  6. You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=2379-Can-Ron-Gardenhire-Develop-Young-Players
  7. Comments have been pretty negative about yesterday’s decision to grant Ron Gardenhire a two-year extension and retain the Minnesota Twins coaching staff. And that’s not just on the Twins Daily forums; check out stories on the Minnesota Twins Official site for some real vitriol. Twins fans are upset. A lot of those comments are rhetoric, which has the advantages of being powerful, entertaining and fairly obvious after a third year of futility and an especially brutal September. But rhetoric is also often logically dubious. One side will claim Gardenhire should be fired for three straight 96+ loss seasons. The other claims he should be retained for six division titles. Both are results which managers probably influence, but so do a lot of factors, like talent. Beyond the rhetoric, there are plenty of concerns regarding Gardenhire’s performance history. One of the biggest is whether a rebuilding organization can entrust a youth movement to Gardenhire and his coaching staff. Certainly, that was a problem this year. Aaron Hicks was a disaster. Chris Parmelee wasn’t much better. Trevor Plouffe stagnated offensively and maybe even regressed defensively. Only Brian Dozier – a player Gardy publicly lobbied to be promoted – ended up overachieving. That raises the question of how many past players really grew under Gardy’s tutelage. Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau, certainly, but they were always viewed as “can’t miss” stars. Jason Kubel probably didn’t have quite the career we expected, but there was the injury. Michael Cuddyer certainly developed, but it took him several years to shake the “underachieving” label. And the generation before developed mostly under Tom Kelly, breaking through largely in 2001 before Gardenhire took over. Similarly, there are questions about the development of the pitching staff under pitching coach (and former Gardenhire minor league roommate) Rick Anderson. Both Gardenhire and Anderson have been widely lauded for the development and handling of their bullpens, and this year’s group was no exception. But the organization is floundering largely because its rotation is among the worst in major league baseball and has been for three straight years. Again, questions arise about how successful this coaching staff has been in developing starters. Brad Radke carried a heavy load for several years, but he came up under Kelly. Johan Santana shined, but the turning point in his career is universally acknowledged to be when he perfected a changeup taught to him by AAA pitching coach (and current Twins bullpen coach) Bobby Cuellar. Kyle Lohse improved after leaving. More recently, Scott Baker and Kevin Slowey both were serviceable for a time, but never took the final step to be consistently excellent. Nick Blackburn followed the path of Carlos Silva, looking like a true success story but regressing back to a dismal finish. Finally, Francisco Liriano is starting tonight in the Wild Card game, resembling the pitcher we were waiting for him to be – the year after he left the Twins. It seems odd to ask whether a coaching staff that had a decade of success can develop young players, because a decade of success almost demands that they be able to do so. But looking at past examples, and especially looking at recent failures, the question is there. At least from the outside. It must not be for Terry Ryan. Because yesterday’s decision essentially entrusts Gardenhire to oversee the final developmental steps of a farm system widely viewed as one of the best in baseball. Beyond all the rhetoric about wins and losses, that is what yesterday was about. And perhaps that is why so many are upset.
  8. I think we all would. But regarding Gardenhire and Kelly, that isn't really the question. The question is: how much did Kelly have to do with the championships and how much did Gardy have to do with the losses? And even that isn't the question if one is talking about whether Gardy should have been retained, because Kelly isn't replacing him. In that case the question is "Would Gardys replacement - whoever that is - be more likely to effect playoff games positively than Gardenhire. And I don't know if that's likely or not either.
  9. The game I'll remember is Kyle Gibson's first start. It as a Saturday afternoon and the feeling in the stadium was absolutely electric. He also had a pretty good start (maybe his only pretty good start.)
  10. Considering the decision, I think that was to be expected. Had he been fired, I think we would have heard a lot more from the other side. I think you did a good job of laying out the case for retaining him Gardy, and I think that's a reasonable position. The rhetoric is a lot easier in the other direction, fueled by three years of frustration and especially a brutal finish to the season. But I think given some distance, both sides can see the other's viewpoint.
  11. Point of order.... How is it decided who gets the fourth pick since the Cubs and Twins had identical records at the end of the year?
  12. I don't think you meant it this way, but I'll twist your point a little: Since Ryan gave Gardy a team that even Ryan had to know wasn't going to be competitive, why not give Gardy an extension last year? The bottom line was that this team wasn't going to be good and there are several data points that support that, like the Vegas over-under lines on season wins. When you give a manager a bad team, it is very hard to evaluate a manager on his results.
  13. Hmmmm..... I'm glad to see they're pushing May.
  14. I agree. I'm keeping an eye on Berrios. With this being his first year in a full season league, the end of season fade is understandable.
  15. Perhaps not. Context was everything in this case. The primary thing that was criticized was the second year, and that still seems like a bad idea, IMHO. But mostly it had to do with the need for top-end pitching and instead signing a bottom-of-the-rotation guy. If the Correia signing would have been the 3rd signing the team made, after signing Dempster and Marcum, it might have been puzzling but not damnable. But as a primary signing, it seemed like the team wasn't serious about solving its starting rotation problems. Which they weren't.
  16. This is a vast over-generalization of what Shane Wahl said. Please don't do that. If you can't help but read his post that way, you might want to add him to your "ignore" list. And Shane, I think it's possible that retaining Gardenhire isn't an act of pity or niceness, but instead is because the team thinks he's a good manager that has had bad teams. I think we can agree that isn't a wholly crazy viewpoint.
  17. The Twins just sent this out.... Twins agree to contract extension with Gardenhire The Minnesota Twins announced today that they have agreed with Manager Ron Gardenhire to a two-year contract extension, through the 2015 season. Gardenhire, 55, was named manager of the Twins on January 4, 2002. He has a career record of 998-947 (.513) as a major league manager, and trails only Tom Kelly on the Twins All-Time win list (1,140). Gardenhire earned the American League Manager of the Year award in 2010 and was named by fellow Managers as The Sporting News Manager of the Year that season. In addition, the Twins coaching staff will be invited back for the 2104 season.
  18. Sorry guys, this is me. I was under the wrong ID doing some stuff on the site and responded before I put it under mine.
  19. You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=2377-Gardy-And-Andy-Will-They-Stay-Or-Will-They-Go
  20. Terry Ryan has promised a quick decision on Minnesota Twins manager Ron Gardenhire, and presumably the rest of the coaching staff, very soon after the season ended. Update, 11:02 AM: This morning, Ken Rosenthal tweeted that the Twins will retain Gardenhire and it is believed to be a 2-year deal. Update 11:36: Mike Berardino tweets that the entire coaching staff will be retained so Rick Anderson will be back too. The Twins have also scheduled a 2:30PM press conference. Gardenhire’s Major League playing career was entirely as a New York Met. He played shorstop there for five seasons, finishing with 710 AB and a .232 batting average. In 1986 he was traded to the Twins where he played one year in AAA before joining the Twins as a manager of their class A team in 1988. He managed two additional years in the minors before joining the Twins as a third base coach in 1991. He took over as Twins manager in 2002, following the retirement of Tom Kelly. Gardenhire led the Twins to their first playoff appearance since 1991 and a trip to the American League Championship Series. He was recognized for his work with a 3rd place finish for the American League Manger of the Year award. The rest of the decade held more of the same. Gardenhire’s teams made the playoffs five more times between 2003 and 2010 and missed one other in 2008 because of a "Game 163" loss. During that stretch, Gardenhire was recognized six times with Manager Of The Year votes, finishing second five times and winning the award in 2010. But he never led the team to another playoff series victory, compiling a 2-15 record in those five other appearances. And after a decade of success, the Twins have floundered since 2011; they lost 90+ games for their 3rd consecutive year in 2013. Last offseason, Gardenhire was not offered a contract extension through the 2014 season, so the Twins had no financial commitment beyond Sunday’s final regular season game. Rick Anderson broke into the majors with the Mets in 1986, serving both as a starter and a reliever, posting a 2.72 ERA over 15 games, but recoding just 3.8 K/9 IP. He was traded to the Royals as part of a package for David Cone prior to the 1987 season and pitched parts of two years with Kansas City. By 1989, he had joined Gardenhire in the Twins organization, serving as a pitching coach at the rookie league level. He gradually moved his way up through the Twins minor league system, including seven years in the Twins AAA affiliate. His success stories in the minors include teaching Brad Radke a different changeup grip that helped lead to his success. When Ron Gardenhire was named Twins manager, Anderson was named the pitching coach. But the relationship between Gardenhire and Anderson went back much further than 2002. They were roommates in the Mets minor leagues. In fact, Gardenhire claims he has an article from 1984 where Gardenhire said “Someday I’m going to be managing in the major leagues and Rick Anderson is going to be my pitching coach.” The Twins pitching staff experienced a great deal of success in the first few years under Anderson. In 2001, the Twins had a 4.51 ERA, 7th in the AL. It shrunk to 4.12, good for 6th in the AL in his first year. And in 2004 it was down to 4.03, lowest in the American League. That success continued through 2007. Anderson’s pitching staffs were characterized by their control. The Twins had the lowest walk total in the American League each year from 2004 through 2010, with the exception of 2007 – when they were second. It wasn’t until 2011, when the team lost 99 games, that they dropped out of the top three in that category under Anderson. But the Twins pitching has floundered in recent years, finishing 29th, 28th and 29th in ERA over the last three years. And while the staff has remained above average in limiting walks, they also been near the bottom of the league in strikeouts, including being the only MLB team with less than 1000 strikeouts this year. If the Gardenhire-Anderson era had ended this week, it will still be one of the most successful eras of the organization. Over 12 years, they collected 998 regular season wins and a .513 winning percentage. They also celebrated winning a division crown six times, a tally that no other Twins team of any era can match.
  21. You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=2376-Gleeman-and-the-Geek-Ep-113-Live-From-Target-Field
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