tobi0040

I guess I have three main issues with it. 1) Our needs our OF defense and pitching. This does nothing to address either. 2) Our #1 target was a 40 year old guy who played here 8 seasons ago. A guy I think Keith Law accurately described as "barely better than replacement level". When you aim low and hit your target, you still lose. 3) I had this optimism built up that the franchise was moving into the direction of better utilyzing statistics to improve the club. Targeting Torii goes counter to that and deflates most of that optimism. Especially if reports are true that it was Molitor pushing for Torii.

 

Vargas had a .772 OPS for the Twins. He does not have any defense to work on. Not sure why he would be at AAA

The issue is we were 5th in runs last year and still lost 90 whatever games. So is Hunter over Willingham defensively and one solid starter (who I doubt we will sign) going to add the 12 wins needed to get to .500, or more to actually contend? The motivation, best I can tell is to hold Hicks hand and appease a new manager who was fed up with the culture. How that will move the needle next year is up for debate, at best.

For a pretty good pitcher with 3-4 additional years of control. $$$ was a huge factor there.

Parker, You do fantastic work. Can you please submit your resume to the Twins? Seriously. Are you able to isolate Hunter's defensive metrics at home and on the road the last two years? There is a suggestion on another thread that Comerica is the sole issue, not Hunters defense.

It is hard for me to list the problems and have effort or losing culure in the top five. I certainly don't have it anywhere near as high on my list as OF defense.

I just posted this on Thrylos's blog post about Torii and the topic of the losing culture. Thought I would post here as well: I think this team has had a talent issue and we are kidding ourselves to think that Torii Hunter punching somebody is going to change any of the following: Starting pitching - Bottom three in starter ERA for 4 years running. OF defense - we were terrible last year. Swapping Willingham-Arcia in LF-RF for Arcia-Hunter is not going to markedly change that. Aaron Hicks has hit right handed pitching at a clip of a .512 OPS Oswaldo Arcia has hit lefties at a clip of a .574 OPS Joe Mauer - Has not been Joe Mauer.

I think this team has had a talent issue and we are kidding ourselves to think that Torii Hunter punching somebody is going to change any of the following: Starting pitching - Bottom three in starter ERA for 4 years running. OF defense - we were terrible last year. Swapping Willingham-Arcia in LF-RF for Arcia-Hunter is not going to markedly change that. Aaron Hicks has hit right handed pitching at a clip of a .512 OPS Oswaldo Arcia has hit lefties at a clip of a .574 OPS Joe Mauer - Has not been Joe Mauer.

I agree. My personal read is that Torii had interest in us to drive his price up and get more out of a contending team. The fact that he signed here speaks to the fact that the level of interest was not high.

I think this brings up a broader point. If we have 25 guys that are OK with losing and constantly need a kick in the tail.....maybe we are not drafting and signing the right kinds of guys.

Great names, but I think both have had Tommy John twice. The track record is terrible for 2x TJ types.

To be fair, if you are a 24 year old Denard Span and a reporter says "how much has Torrii Hunter helped your development?" or "what is it like watching Torii Hunter go about his business every day"? You are going to respond in a very positive manner every time.

Looks like we extended contracts to all of them http://www.twinkietown.com/2014/12/3/7325603/twins-will-tender-contracts-to-all-arbitration-eligible-players

I have a crazy idea. Instead of making our #1 priority a 40 year old RF making $10.5M, lets just add another coach at $300K a year to mentor

I can't argue with you there. But I thought the draw to Molitor was that he was this really smart guy that had a great relationship with the young players and relates well to everyone. You have spring training and a ton of ex-Twins there. You have I think six coaches for 25 position players on ther roster. How many mentors do we need?

He won the MVP award and received every first place vote this year with Hunter in Detroit. He had an OPS of .988 with 27 HR and 33 SB in 2013 with Hunter in Detroit. As a 21 year old. This mentor thing is wildly over-rated in sports and the least relevant in baseball, IMO. When a ball is hit at Aaron Hicks, he needs to get it. When he is in the batters box, it is him versus the pitcher.

I just love how we can talk ourselves into anything, as long as it is a one or two year deal. Or at least....who cares? It is only a one year deal. Last year, we had 16% of our roster spots and 16% of payroll locked into the following four players: Pelfrey 7.99 ERA $5.5M Correia 4.94 ERA $5M Kubel .607 OPS $2M Guerrier 3.86 ERA $1M Next year, we will have at least $16.5M locked into Hunter and Pelfrey and we are just getting started. I see another $5-8M going to another re-tread pitcher. That will likely be about 26% of payroll in three players that are not any good. Keith Law called Hunter, “barely above replacement level”. I would argue the only one of the four last year that sniffed replacement level was Guerrier. The old saying goes you can’t have 20-25% of payroll devoted to one star player and win a world series. Well I would counter that you can’t have 20-25% of your payroll and the same amount of your roster spots devoted to replacement players or worse and win 80 games. And give me one stud and three rookies over four of these types all day. There is no difference between a long term contract and perpetually having short term deals on your books. We can say well we can't sign Jon Lester because he wants a six year deal. The years are really scary. If he is good for four years and terrible for the last two, than his production over the life of that deal will surpass the coalition of 30 year old re-treads we will sign over that period even if his arm falls off at some point.

Nailed it. Two needs. Pitching and of defense. This makes both worse. Somehow.

The really frustrating thing is Rasmus is still available and probably signs about the same deal. 11 years younger. Can play all 3 positions, which could be valuable as you want hicks on the corner if he turns it around (not our long term cf) Or flexibility if Rosario or buxton light it up. Probably the same stick with much better defense. And you get a pick next year when he leaves.

How about. We "won" the sweepstakes.

It makes more sense to cut Milone. Then have a shortage of pitchers and trade for the same guy in June.

That is my thought process as well. The guy will make $2.5M. That is not a lot of money. He is absolutely better than some of the AAAA types that will at some point come up and make 15-20 starts. And Milone has better than a snowballs chance at pitching at least league average and having a decent couple of years. I am not sure why we would cut him.

As a reference point. Swarzak pitched 86 innings. Duensing 54. Tonkin 19.

I think age is a very important data point. Use that for starters, then add on athleticism, how they keep themselves in shape, and injury history. In the case of Torii versus Willingham, Willingham was always hurt and slow. It was predictable that he would age quicker and he has been awful defensively. Torii was paid $90M for his bat, plus defense, and base running at 32. His total dWAR during those fives years was about 1 win and he stole a total of 60 bases in five years. His OPS was over .820 once. Probably averaged about .805 or so.