AROG

debating this point seems useless at this point. There is a lot of data available from Forbes to MLB.com about the player development in all the places. I encourage you to look up the data on your own and draw your conclusions from there.

As I stated in the Article comments, I believe this could be done for Arcia, Rosario, Morales and Jorge. Now, that is a lot of talent and one Ryan may not agree to even if he had the chance. But, that is a major league ready OF, a close to ready 2B, a 2-3 year away CF and a High Ceiling RHP. The Marlins have a lot of talented young pitchers that are close to ready for the show and we may be able to swing one of those in the deal too, but they wont want pitching in return unless it is a high ceiling really young one. You wouldn't have to get rid of Buxton or Sano

To go along with drjim, it's not that the Twins were necessarily late to the DR, it's more so the value of the players there. The DR has a population of 10 million, which is like saying that everyone is scouting Georgia (pop. 10 million), because it is the easiest and cheapest to scout but would leave California and Texas and Florida alone. The last few HS players taken the last few years are from Georgia so it must be where all the talent is. Fist and foremost, baseball is a company that is a for profit organization. Since the Twins aren't philosophically going to get into bidding wars unless they are completely sold on the player and that would happen if they kept themselves mainly in the DR like other teams, ie Sano, Buxton, Stewart (which they drafted high knowing they would have to spend a ton just to sign them). I understand your skepticism. I have business owners everyday tell me they can't find good employees and think the only way to do it is to pay more for them. In actuality, it is a recruiting problem, they are trying to find someone like themselves to fill a void and relying on hiring out of the same pool of people as everyone else. If you want the best employee you need to find them in different places.

Interesting thought. The Twins should be losing a lot of payroll this season which has been very highly publicized. If were were to trade Willingham this offseason, which is probable. That would free up more. Could it be possible either in that trade or others to trade away an inexpensive player, like a prospect just outside the top 20 for a decent, yet overpaid pitcher and a better prospect because we are eating their salary for a year or two. We have the flexibility now to handle it for two to three years until we will need it to sign some people and with teams so concerned about overpaid contracts we could snag a good prospect for an overpaid player. What do you think?

You also have to remember that Dontrelle was a stud pitcher at the time. He was only traded with one year on his salary (I could be wrong, but that is my memory of the event) so was less of a multiple year option, but was a front line starter. Miguel Cabrera (2003–2007) — Cabrera debuted with the Marlins in 2003 and hit a game-winning home run in his first game against the Tampa Bay Rays. He was a key factor to the Marlins' 2003 World Series run and the ballclub's primary power hitter during his tenure, hitting 138 home runs and driving in 523 in five seasons. Cabrera went to four All-Star games and won a pair of Silver Slugger awards. Dontrelle Willis (2003–2007) — The "D-Train" was named the National League Rookie of the Year in 2003 and showcased his remarkable (for a pitcher) hitting ability by going 3-for-3 with a triple while scoring a run during Game 4 of the 2003 National League Division Series, which the Marlins won 7–6 over the San Francisco Giants to advance to the NL Championship Series. Willis holds many Marlins pitching records including single season victories (22), complete games (15), shutouts (8), as well as being second in innings pitched (1,022 ⅔) Miguel Cabrera had the same HR power, averaging over 30HR per 162 games his last 4 seasons with Miami but had a BA of almost 80 points higher over their times in FL. Also, Miggy was a 3B so that made him more valuable. All in all, I think we could get Stanton for the guys I listed above, possibly substituting another young pitcher for Morales.

Disclaimer: I have a friend that is a scout for the Astros, and most of this is based on what he has shared with me, and he would like to remain nameless so if you don't believe it I understand but his job is more important that our posts. Also, it is based on guys signed at 18 years of age and under. My friend has told me that there are four teams that lead the way when it comes to international FA signings, they all have different views. By leading the way he means that those teams have either more scouts or scouts that spend more time in the field. The Astros, Twins, Cardinals and Yankees. The Astros and the Cardinals like the balanced approach. One or two very highly sought after guys for large $'s followed by a few cheaper options that they like and have major upsides but could fall flat on their faces in a year or two. The Yankees try to get as many top $ signings as they can and get out. The Twins will maybe go after one to two highly sought after guys but only if they feel that everyone else is missing on him, they don't like bidding wars. He said that they will generally go after a few cheap options that have lower upsides but lower ceilings and some high upsides that the Astros and Cardinals will get into bidding wars over and sign them away. He says that the high $ guys are generally accepted as 1-in-10 odds of making the majors and the the Hi-Lo guys as a 1-in-50 chance and the Lo-Hi guys as a 1-20. I think Mike is just pointing out that he would like to spend more money on the better odds players that make a splash. The overall odds work better with the Astros and Cardinals for All-Star type players but he said the Twins odds are the best at getting big leaguers with an occasional All-Star mixed in. IMO I like what the Asros and Cardinals are doing with mixing the highest level of upside guys and not looking for anyone who is major league average but that is me.

If this were to happen. I think the Marlins would want, Arcia, Rosario, Morales and Jorge. For a young stud like Stanton, who rival GM's say is a good 5-6 hitter not a true 3 or 4 because of average and strikeouts a package like this doesn't upset me too much. I really like what we have in Arcia, he is younger then Stanton and I think the Marlins would take an OF that is ready to step in from the opposite side of the plate as well as two AA players, Rosario that is close to ready and Morales that may take a couple years. And then a young, high upside pitcher. We would get the right handed power bat we need to replace Willingham, have room in the outfield, keep Hicks and our top pitching prospects. This is a trade I would make.

Back on point for me. I think the Twins should trade him early next year. Whenever a team like the Angels or Dodgers gets a big injury early in their season they want to trade for someone that call fill the gap. That would be the best time to get something for Correia, He will still be pitching well and have some value to the new team because his contract is up at years end.

First of all, I am sorry if someone has already pointed this out, I have read (mainly skimmed) most of the posts so I think I am good. Joe as well as AJ are tall catchers. Because they are so tall the lower strikes are not going to get called because their knees are higher, where as there chest is also higher making the top part of the zone more likely to be called. That has always been the case with tall catchers. Catchers like JP Arencebia and Molina have a very low crouch so they get the low call, but not the high one. That is why historically teams have always gone with smaller catchers but recently, the ability to hit has made it more difficult to decide if they will give up the possibly low strikes for someone to drive in runs. Someone said that Doumit is catching Diamond better, here are the stats this year; Doumit: 65.2 IP 11.1 H/9 5.76 ERA 1.6 HR/9 2.9 BB/9 3.7 K/9 and 1.29 K/BB Mauer: 30.2 IP 12.6 H/9 5.28 ERA 0.9 HR/9 1.8 BB/9 5.0 K/9 and 2.83 K/BB Clearly Mauer is doing better with Diamond then Doumit, I think someone said something about Buetera. First of all, he only caught one of Diamond's games this year, and second of all I don't think anyone disagrees that Buetera is a better defensive catcher then most players in the league, the problem is he can't hit. Lastly, to go along with the Deduno point. The Twins pitchers are terrible. They are wild in the zone. They don't typically walk a lot of guys but they have missed there spot from one side of the plate to the other. Burt comments on this a lot during the broadcasts to Dick. Dick will complain because fox trax says it is a strike and Burt will say that when you miss your spot that bad the umpire generally wont give the call. PS Arencebia gets to catch Behrle all the time, that has to help.

The move is about service time. We get one more year of team control...

I do like that approach as the Astros did. It definately helps. If only we had the time machines... On another note, I really hope that Ryan didn't truly believe that this lineup was going to play games that matter in September. If so all of my assumptions about him are wrong..

Thanks, I did too, and I agree, selling tickets is a large factor. Also, there may be a psychological aspect to it for the players already on the roster, in terms of getting them to believe they can win so they play harder all year. I can't imagine what it would be like if he had said "we are going to suck again this year but I have a plan that will get this team winning again in the near future, just not this year". Oh, wait, that is what Houston did, well I digress. I don't fault Ryan for saying it, he seems to be only down slightly in attendance, 9% according to ESPN's avg attendance where as Houston is only down 3%. The Twins are down 3,000 in average attendance and the Astros are down 600. Overall I think he did was any general manager of any business would. We aren't the Astros and haven't had their prolonged failure. What do you think?

Absolutely, IMO the players that might be staying away are scared that they we might end up like the Pirates or Royals. I agree that we aren't that far away from being a winning team again and shouldn't be labeled as a team like those two. My original point in this was that Ryan was being criticized for saying we would have a winning team this winter and that he was doing so to convey that he wasn't in full rebuild mode like the Astros, that he wants to win now. I believe he did so, IMO, to try and lure better free agents here, so they remembered that we aren't the Royals and the Pirates.

I agree that wasn't your desire to win one and be done. All we have to go on is how other teams have done. Very few teams have been able to win the WS and do well the years after it. They generally have to drop payroll and start to rebuild. I agree that I want the Twins to be good year after year with playoff wins and WS wins. I think that what Ryan is trying to do is build so that he can do that. He has been building the farm system to bring in the right players from growth and IMO he will go get the player or two to try and make the big push when he has the team to do so. He doesn't have the best track record of that, I will admit, but I also think we have seen a slightly different Ryan this time around, IMO

I have many friends that have played in the minors and a few in the show as well as being recruited myself before I had major arm surgery my senior year of high school. They have talked about certain organizations you avoid playing for in the minors because you wont have a shot at getting to the show without years of being in the minors. Others that you try to get into because you have a real shot at getting thrown up there right away to see what you have and so on. I conceded that I was probably wrong with how the majority of major league players truly act. I turn down job offers daily to work for more money then I make today because I like where I am, the life I have, and the free time to post on websites all day instead of being hounded to work harder. But based on what I know from the people I know and how business in general works I "assumed" that it would act the same and should have put that it was my opinion not gospel truth.

I would't say "great" either as drjim said so himself. But they were very good. I am most likely in the minority as well. I would much rather win the division, no matter how bad it is, and get to the playoffs consistently, then win the WS then have four horrible years then win the WS again and then have ten losing seasons. If we make the playoffs, there is hope, this is baseball, anything can happen. When the twins went to the playoffs in '87 and '91 nobody thought they had a chance to win a game let alone the WS. Things happen when your in the dance. That's my humble opinion.

I understand a free market economy. I was just saying the current Twins team can't offer a salary at just above what the player is going to make from others and have them come, like say the Cardinals can. The Twins would have to pay way more then what the player is worth to get them to come. Players don't just go to the person paying the most. Often times they turn down teams from even entertaining offers. But that being said, the game is based on greed and you are most certainly at least half right, it might be more like one out of every fifty .

What pitcher do you think the Twins could have signed last off season for close to the amount they received that actually would have come to play for this team? Sure, they could pay astronomically high prices for players well above what they are worth and a few would sign. But nobody wants to come play for market value for the team on the field. that is why you have to rebuild. I understand you sentiments, I do, but overpaying is how you get to where we are at. The players wont come back in free agency until we have the team around them to win.

Terry Ryan gets a lot of love and hate here, but I think the love is where I sit. He did well in his tenure with the Twins on his first go around, making solid trades and building from within. He had teams that year in and and year out competed for division titles and if they got hot and a little lucky could have won the whole thing once or twice. That is the formula for the Cardinals and every other team not spending stupid amounts on payroll. When Ryan took over the last time he took over an aging major league team that was over paid and bad. Also, the minor league system had almost nothing good at any of the top 3 levels. So, he began the rebuild. That starts with getting rid of players that are making too much and can be let go. Hoping some of the ones you hold on to can produce a team that stays competitive. That is the goal of every GM during these times, to keep a competitive team on the field that will keep the fan base coming to the games until the team is ready to win again. To accomplish that task, you need to get some "quality" major league fill ins to stop gap. Good ones wont go to a team that doesn't have a shot at winning. Decent ones want a stab in the dark at winning because if the team does win when they shouldn't, those vets often get the praise. People are upset at Ryan for selling bill of goods in the winter about possibly winning this year. Do you think anyone would sign a major league deal with the Twins if they had offers from anyone else had he not said that? GM's are salesman with business skills and evaluation abilities. So he was overly optimistic to try and sign some players to have a decent product on the field. Aaron Hicks gets blamed a lot for being over rated and I think that is a bit unfair as well. The man is still young. It takes time to come up and hit well. He didn't get demoted in June because he was hitting .250 since May. July he regressed so they did the smart thing and put him down for service time. Ryan had a back up in mind but he was hurt. Beggars can't be choosers. We don't have anyone better that can fill Hicks' spot. Thomas has been just as bad but we could care less about his service time. The team will get better year after year and it is fair to say that in Buxton's rookie year they could compete for a division title. By then some of the other guys that will form the nucleus of the Twins team will have a year or two under their belt and be playing well, not great yet, but well. When that happens free agents will want to come and be apart of a young team that has real talent and could win. Sorry for the long winded ramblings. Kinda...

We need to put Clete on wavers and hope that someone will take him off of our hands. Parm is a better hitter then Clete, Clete is better on D but Parm can platoon with Mastriani. Arcia will be the left fielder to replace Willingham at some point. Hicks will be just fine. He is getting better with each month, except the last 10 games or so, where he has had some bad at bats and some tough luck. Hicks is going to man center till Buxton does. People all over the country, I know I travel for work, rave about the young CF we have and how awesome he is and will be. Arcia is going to be great as well. He needs to be in the Majors and get consistent AB's. At least that is MHO.

If we could have Brandon Phillips on our team right now, for the salary we are paying Dozier, most would agree that we would take that in a heart beat. Dozier has been almost as good defensively and his offensive numbers are almost identical this year. In Phillips career he is a .270 hitter and a .750 OPS. I fully believe we will get this out of Dozier over a career. The main thing I like about him, his confidence. He doesn't get down on himself he works hard and makes improvements. I love what Rosario is doing, but Dozier is very viable as a major league second baseman. who knows, next year if we keep Rosario in AAA to start the year and Dozier is making more improvements offensively, up to the .270 and .750 marks, we have options with Rosario. We could move him back to outfield or trade him for pitching.

I would say both. First, the twins competition has been pretty poor. They aren't the complete bottom of the pack, but bottom half of middle. Second, they guys have been pitching better, Deduno is doing his thing, Pelfrey is making improvements month after month, and Gibson will continue to get better the more starts he gets, although most likely inconsistent. Diamond is going to be either really good or really bad and sometimes that can change after the 3rd inning so he is up in the air, and one would hope that Corria can right the ship. So, I am optimistically skeptical that they can trend better the rest of the year.

Here is a trade idea that I haven't heard much on. Justin Morneau to the Rangers. Mitch Moreland is only hitting .240 but does have a fair amount of HR's. Incert Morneau in the lineup at first and let Morland DH against RHP's and someone else against LHP. I see Justin doing great in Texas with the heat and the short porch in right. He is also hitting .290 and can drive in runs. The Rangers aren't getting any good looks at other top hitters and this would be a nice add for them. In return the Twins could get Victor Payano. He is the 5th or 6th best prospect the Rangers have for a starting pitcher. Payano is having a tough year but has all the makings of being a great pitcher. He is 6'6" lefty and throws in the mid 90's. The Twins could take the chance that he learns to repeat his delivery or convert him to bullpen if it doesn't work out as a starter. Either way, it is a good return for Justin and one the Rangers could afford.

That is very true, he followed that year up with two mediocre years before having a great 2008. I should have said that he didn't reach consistency of being good till then. He had flashes of being good but didn't have it from year to year, like he does now. It is a stretch to say that Deduno will be able to, he most likely wont be nearly the pitcher Lee is, but I think the Deduno we see this year is the Deduno we will see for the next 5 years. And with what we have for a pitching staff, is exactly what we need. On a side note, I think Liriano is like Lee, in that he has finally figured it out and hopefully can start being consistent with it year after year. Maybe I'm just too optomistic...

Cliff Lee wasn't any good till he was 30, that's when he had his break out season with Cleveland and was traded the next year at age 31. Lee is now 35 or about to be and still pitching great. I would take five years of Deduno over getting one or two prospects for him in a sign and trade.