Willihammer

http://m.mlb.com/video/v948915483/mindet-rosario-runs-down-a-deep-fly-ball-in-left/?query=eddie%2Brosario

Sounds like Rosario made a game saving catch.

Despite that the first 3 I thought of after posing that question were Verlander, Halladay, and Greinke. I know I have a short memory. And a bit ALC biased ha

Me too. I don't know why but he impressed me as a youngster as much as just about any player growing up. The hitter equivalent would be Thome when he was an Indian. Just destroyed us.

Top 3 AL RH SPs since 2000 off the top of your head go

Reports of Verlander's death have been greatly exaggerated.

"Florimon is our shortstop" "Sano is our RF" "TR is our GM" I'm guessing the new GM fires Molly halfway into 2017.

Yes, unless dropping Mauer in the order caused him to become a better batter. Its probably a long shot but players are territorial about those things. Dropping a veteran in the lineup could be a challenge, one that might resonate with a veteran player like Mauer.

It is possible to win with athletic, high OBP low Slg 1B, see the early 00s teams with Dougie M. on the team. But I'm not sure its possible to win it all that way. I'd like to see Molitor man up and pare down Mauer's playing time, and drop him in the order. I wonder how Mauer would react. Maybe he would respond positively.

I'll wait and see like most people but its hard not to be cynical about the Pohlads willinghness to look for outside help. BTW If you were wondering why Joe Pohlad's name has been involved with the TR firing. https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2016/07/why-terry-ryan-had-go?utm_content=buffer76062&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

That rabbit hole has been gone down before a million times on these boards, I won't go down there here. I will just say, even if TR inherited a rebuild in his 2nd stint, he did so with the benefit of a brand new ballpark, and annual payrolls 25-30m greater than the A's. Isolating the years 1998-2007, Beane still outperformed TR by a .548 winning percentage to .507. He's the better GM any way you slice it, which says more about Beane than it does TR IMO. I think TR was fine in his first stint, his second stint has been a disaster, I don't care what situation he inherited. TR has only made it worse.

Beane's record as GM, 1998-2015: 1552-1362 (.533) TR's record as GM, 1994-2007 & 2011-2016: 1394-1544 (.474) Almost 10 wins/season difference.

*Except the four 90+ loss teams in the 90s, again under Ryan.

Giving Ryan another season to turn the ship around would be extending an already unprecedented level of patience for a GM. No other owner in baseball history has suffered 4 straight 90+ loss seasons from a GM before. TR would have been gone after 2014 in any other market.

As for the timing, maybe it was the three games this weekend. Starting pitching got outpitched in all three games. Sano forced to sit due to butchering 3B Santana forced to CF due to Buxton struggles Losing 2/3 at home, in ugly fashion, when the team is supposed to be turning a corner. And if you caught Inside Twins before Sunday's game, TR was asked about Sano's glove, Buxton, the offense, trade deadline, and he kind of shrugged at all the questions. Didn't seem to have an answer for any of it. http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/fan_forum/podcasts/index.jsp?c_id=min Maybe Jim just said enough is enough and made the move.

The period 2002-2012 was selected because that's what the Strib looked at. The Strib selected that period "because players in this range should be pitching in the majors today." But I agree its a weird period to look at. For one thing, those drafts coincide with the Twins 6-and-9 years when their first round pick was in the 20s. Secondly, many players drafted after 2007 or so aren't even arb-eligible yet or aren't playing in the majors just because they were high school picks instead of college picks, etc. Thirdly, the period overlaps the end of the first TR administration and the entire BS era. It is probably impossible to measure the efficacy of the Twins scouting/developing apparatus just using WAR values. Different ballparks, CBAs, owners, etc. and other confounding variables in recent Twins history. But if you're going to try an analysis I think you have to look at 1994-2007. That captures the entire TR administration where Radcliffe was scouting director. They were also in the Metrodome the entire time and Carl Pohlad was owner the entire time. And you avoid some of the pitfalls of the later drafts where many guys haven't broken into the majors yet. And I think you need to look at career WARs instead of drafting team-produced WARs because, theoretically anyway, that future value can be flipped for other assets. And if trade returns don't produce that is not necessarily a failure (or success) of scouting/developing. From 1994-2007, using career WARs, Twins pitchers averaged the 12.7th pick. Of pitchers drafted in the first 10 rounds (using the top 10 as a cutoff because these are most likely to have signed, and because these would be the pitchers highest on the Twins draft boards), 75 pitchers produced 80.3 career WARs, or 1.07 WAR/pitcher on average, 10th among AL teams. So, that is more evidence supporting your conclusion that the Twins were middle of the pack. Also in the Strib piece, Radcliffe implied they didn't draft enough pitchers in the 90s and 00s to overcome attrition. But actually they took 75 P's in the top 10 rounds of the 1994-2007 drafts which was slightly more than the average. That included 6 first rounders (9th) and 8 second rounders (t-2nd). So if the Twins were more hurt by attrition it wasn't because of lack of numbers.

Another throwing error from Sano today, helped the Indians to a two run fourth. He's been pretty bad in the field the past 7-8 games.

Found Chief! http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/15/article-2693149-1FA9D7C000000578-572_634x562.jpg

What a sleeper

Haha remember this guy

Chief? http://i.imgur.com/PcLBjAh.jpg

If we were talking about 4 or 5 drafts, I'd probably agree. But 618 pitchers over 23 drafts? You would think they'd have developed more front line starters just through sheer dumb luck but in truth, Scott Baker and his 15.7 WARs was the very best pitcher drafted in the Radcliffe era. On average, all pitchers drafted in that span had a WAR of .322. The Twins averaged .256 WAR / pitcher. Good for 21st of the 28 franchises (I'm exluding AZ, TB, and MON for simplicity). Is 100% of that on scouting? What about the old signing bonus rules / Metrodome revenues / owner cheapness? How much blame goes to poor coaching? Some or all of the above? Who knows. Probably there's blame to go around. System-wide. Call it a "systemic total fail."

Yeah the AZ and TB teams are listed twice. Expose left in 2005, etc. Feel free to modify the table to adjust for those franchises. I was mainly interested in stink testing Radcliffe's explanation "not enough pitching". But the rounds definitely make a difference as would signing bonus rules and caps which have changed over the years. Here is the combined table I downloaded from baseball-reference over lunch: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5pIzP28qdp-VWRIMGsyTTd3eWc I did a rough check. The Twins drafted 64 pitchers in the first 5 rounds since 1994, which is 11th of 28 (not incl. TB, AZ or MON). They drafted 11 in the first round, 17th of 28 teams. They have emphasized pitching even more at the higher rounds since 2012, drafting 18 in the first 5 rounds (tied for 3rd overall), but only 2 first rounders.

In the Smith years, 2008-2011, the Twins drafted 146 pitchers, most of any franchise. Tm2 Total Twins 146 Rangers 145 Indians 138 Reds 134 Yankees 134 Blue 133 Brewers 132 Phillies 132 Mariners 131 Royals 130 Cubs 130 Pirates 130 Red 130 Rays 128 Cardinals 128 Mets 128 Orioles 126 Marlins 123 White 122 Diamondbacks 122 Giants 120 Nationals 120 Braves 119 Astros 119 Rockies 116 Padres 115 Tigers 114 Angels 113 Athletics 111 Dodgers 106 Grand Total 3775 In the TR 2.0 era, 2012-2016, they've drafted 101 pitchers, 26th most. Tm2 Total Rangers 126 Mets 121 Brewers 118 Orioles 117 Reds 116 Padres 116 Phillies 114 Yankees 113 Rockies 112 Tigers 111 Pirates 110 Giants 108 Dodgers 106 Marlins 106 Cubs 106 Rays 105 Royals 105 Cardinals 104 Nationals 104 Blue 103 Braves 103 Indians 102 Astros 102 Athletics 102 Mariners 101 Twins 101 Red 94 Diamondbacks 93 White 92 Angels 91 Grand Total 3202

Not true. Between 1994 (when Radcliffe took over as Scouting director) and 2007 (when he was promoted to VP), the Twins drafted 395 pitchers in the June drafts. 6th most of any franchise. The problem is scouting, developing, or both. Its not a lack of quantity. Tm2 Total Yankees 427 Braves 419 Marlins 416 Indians 407 Royals 399 Twins 395 Mariners 393 Cubs 386 Giants 385 Mets 385 Blue 382 Rangers 377 Astros 374 Dodgers 372 Brewers 371 Rockies 370 White 365 Angels 358 Orioles 358 Reds 355 Cardinals 348 Pirates 345 Tigers 343 Red 339 Phillies 333 Athletics 321 Padres 305 Expos 295 Devil 273 Diamondbacks 265 Rays 106 Nationals 81 D'backs 62