TheLeviathan

All setting a minimum price does is guarantee some people in some markets get nothing for their tickets. At times last September I was happy to get $3.

Yup, after being one of those people selling on Stub Hub the last season and a half, time for me to get some cheap tickets. I love the experience and love the team, but I'm going to take the same approach to my ticket buying that the team did with payroll. I just worry about the future payrolls when it matters.

Apparently now the count is at least 5 people that have found the same arguments I have "fabricated" and "exaggerated". Strange, must be telepathy. Though, I guess maybe my argument is extreme in the sense that Butera is "extremely" bad at hitting. But whatever, I'm done, Nick can rant away and mislabel me however he wants from here. Butera is a bad hitter, if we have to be strapped with a third catcher (an assumption imbedded in the original article) then I wish we had one that at least brought some versatility and non-historically-awful play to the table.

It's NOT extreme. Historically he's one of the worst hitters IN BASEBALL HISTORY. It's not hyperbole, it's factual. He IS utterly useless at the plate. He IS woefully inept at a major portion of the game (hitting), and he IS an embarrassment to the franchise to continue to hand a historically awful hitter a roster spot. It's not extreme because it's factually accurate. He IS that bad of a hitter. No, the arguments are that he "complements" other catchers. Having two players who can't play at the same time who are deficient at a portion of the game is not a "complement" and if you carried that thinking to the rest of the roster would be incredibly foolish. Yet somehow that argument has been trotted out at least twice in this thread. You keep saying no one is defending Butera, and yet that is precisely what has happened repeatedly. From he doesn't get enough ABs to matter, to the 25th roster spot is irrelevant, to the idea he's a good "complement". I'm not fabricating any opposing positions, you just choose not to see your defense of Butera as a defense. (Which, as Chief's response indicates - more than I am interpreting it as such) Attacking the idea of the third catcher is no different. You want to give that some kind of higher standing but the truth is, there is no greater purpose to that ridicule as long as Gardy is here. So quit pretending otherwise. (You're trying to minimize my position over it which is frustrating and completely baseless) I've come to grips that we have to have a third catcher as long as Gardy is here - now I want one that isn't terrible offensively. I fail to see how your position has some grander status.

You're right, most of the country doesn't even see that.

Just wait until that first Twins-patented approach to injury happens where they wait 2 weeks out of a 3 week injury to put someone on the DL and Butera gets heightened at-bats in that stretch. Haven't even touched on that one yet.

Don't be modest.

It should all be a non-issue. Historically bad hitters shouldn't be on your roster. But apparently that's an "extreme" position.

What tirade and what extremeness? I just looked over the thread, I'm not exaggerating or fabricating anything. I'm not on a tirade. I'm not being extreme. Pretty unfounded accusations there, yeesh. Keep historically bad hitters on your team is indefensible. That's a pretty simple point, but feel free to mischaracterize it however you'd like. That appears to be your go-to on this topic.

I think there are a few people too bullish (Doumit and Willingham come to mind) but I do think if Plouffe manages to hit 25 homeruns, I expect his RBI total to be closer to 80.

As your examples point out, you can have both. There are plenty of catchers that provide good defense that can manage more than a .500 OPS. Historically, few players have been given this many at-bats while being this inept offensively. The Twins have straddled themselves with this issue, let's stop pretending otherwise. No matter how great he is defensively, it's not helping the ballclub when he's this bad as a hitter. If he's this good in the clubhouse, sign him to be the bullpen catcher then. Or put him in AAA to work with young pitchers. But he's not a worthwhile MLB player.

Shall we compare their OPS to Butera's? You know how this conversation would die more easily? If some didn't try to argue that Butera is worth a roster spot. If no one is arguing the contrary, all you'll get is a few complaints, not a discussion.

I predict he won't play until May 20th where we finally put him on the DL for 5 days and he returns shortly after.

Exactly.

You're right, we should wait for Mike Trout. Then we'll get the fans going again. Your positions on these issues are maddening. I'm not sure how to approach something so absurd as "Nothing they could've done to add talent to this team would make fans excited"

Marginally absurd. Because apparently "significant" = "marginal"

Because people, including you, say it's wise to keep Butera because he complements Mauer and Doumit's abilities. That isn't "complementing" them. It's a completely irrelevant point that sounds good, but means nothing. Doumit's offense doesn't help Butera's and vice-versa with defense. The only thing it allows you to do is pick which absent skillset you want to play that day. I don't call that an advantage. The very fact that they are insistent upon having a third catcher and brought in zero alternatives to compete with him, makes that quote perfectly reasonable to use here.

Ticket sales are linked to fan enthusiasm. This offseason gave the fanbase ZERO reason to be enthusiastic about next year. So you can cherry pick any names you want to say "that guy wouldn't have done it" but it's intentionally missing the entire point.

I would imagine by August you'll be able to pay between 10-25% of face value. And, as a former season ticket holder, I can tell you prices like that will drive season ticket holders away which will hurt the team's available budget. A few of those "marginal" upgrades were not only 2013 investments, they were investments in the 2015-217 fanbase as well.

Wrong. I have repeatedly stated that his problems are on a critical component of the game (offense) never that he was a completely inept player at all phases. That is just a blatant mischaracterization. Butera's defense does not "complement" any other catcher. This isn't the outfield where the CF can complement a corner OF with bad range. Or a SS that complements a 3B with poor range to his left. When he plays - his historically awful offensive abilities hurts the team. And the 2006 Twins gave nearly 400 at bats to Rondell White and still had a strong team...what's your point? The problem with your arguments is that if you even take them and apply them to anyone but Butera they look ridiculous. (They look ridiculous with Butera, but somehow you're missing that) Butera is a symptom of the larger problems. The Twins are too focused on bizarre loyalties rather than actual talent. That, and this thread started talking about third catcher options. Seems odd for you to come in here complaining that people are complaining about Butera. Did you expect a thread about the "third catcher" was somehow not going to be a discussion of Butera? He's a bad player, he shouldn't be on the roster, and the Twins need to stop handing him a spot.

Right, so he's getting his spot regardless of how he plays. Isn't that precisely the point of the scholarship quote? . This is such a poor argument. If having a quality player in the 25th roster spot isn't important - why do we have it? Why does every other team find a functional use for it? Why is the 24th spot more valuable? Why don't we line our bench with Butera, Tony Batista, the corpse for Rondell White, and a few others? It is so annoying to hear that it's ok to have bad players on the bench. It's not ok and it shouldn't be ok. This is precisely why it's a scholarship issue. If they want a third catcher so bad, sign Inge. He provides versatility, the same "gamer" qualities of Butera, and some offensive ability. The Twins are content and happy with Butera. That's the problem - they overlook his complete inability to be a functional baseball player because they are citing the same intangibles you are.

Um...that was the point. Is this some kind of bit?

So basically the Twins view scalpers in much the same way we view the Twins - profit vultures?

And they were accurate then too. I fail to see the point. The problem is that an ownership group too focused on money will aggravate the fanbase who will take their patronage elsewhere which only furthers the money issue that started the problem in the first place. As a fan of this franchise who wants to see this team win, ownership alienating fans is not something I want to see.

All about the money. Even makes the offseason taste a little bit worse yet.