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TheLeviathan

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Everything posted by TheLeviathan

  1. TheLeviathan
    Yes, it is. Both of them are the underlying factors that are the most difficult to pin down, but the most responsible for ongoing issues. Islam, in many countries, DOES have a legal structure because it's entwined in the leadership. I mean, did you seriously just suggest that Islam doesn't have a foothold in government? ****, the police are nothing compared to the financial, legal, judicial, and governmental backing some of these groups have. The other elements just add flavor, just like power, poverty, gerrymandering, and other issues influence racism. At the end of the day - what's the core issue? It's Islam and the oppressive, regressive platform it is propagating in many parts of the world.
  2. TheLeviathan
    Are you not aware that in those countries they will reject it on the basis of religion? Because they will. So, yes, it is about religion. The countries that have a low measure for implementing Sharia are generally run by moderate regimes that have fewer ties between the faith and government. "Islamic Terrorists in the Middle East isn't evidence that there is a problem in Islam, just that Terrorism sprung up in a few areas"" is, again, like you're arguing this same thing: "The KKK in America isn't evidence that there is racism in America, just that the KKK sprung up in a few areas." I find both statements preposterous. Why the hell do you find one of them plausible? (Or maybe both? Are you at least consistent?)
  3. TheLeviathan
    It is the justification for it. The causes long stopped mattering. Hell, many terrible things have been done for made up causes - what matters is how you drive people to be motivated. And that is where religion is the key. I don't want Muslims to "change" their religion. I want them to change their practice. Thousands have, most of them here in America. I don't understand the fear of identifying the problem. You're delusional and hypocritical at the same time.
  4. TheLeviathan
    Well, with the military you have to wipe out the group most fanatic. But you do exactly what Obama did and share the workload. It makes it more difficult for the next to create an evil infidel bad guy to preach against. The more help from Muslim nations at eradicating ISIS...the better. You fight back in whatever ways possible - economic, social, political - to lift up reformers and protect them. Implement positive programs in countries near there - provide asylum and education to anyone willing to cross into those borders. A UN sanctioned base for that in Turkey or France or Italy might be a huge boon. There might be many more, it's hard to get into specifics without classified information and more in depth knowledge of the areas. But let's be real clear - this isn't going to go away. Medieval Christianity didn't just go away. It spread death and violence everywhere for centuries until it finally lost out to reform. We've got the same fight coming, but with better tools and more global support to fight it. And we need to. But we can't do that with our heads in the sand pretending it's not the real problem.
  5. TheLeviathan
    I'm asking them to change. I have no problem correcting someone else's broken moral system. That said, if they want to slink into a hole, not bother anyone, and keep their hate to themselves? Sure, I'll leave them alone. But Islamic extremists are not keeping it to themselves, they are actively spreading it and mutilating, killing, raping, and terrorizing anyone that disagrees with them. So, yeah, call me crazy - I'm asking them to change. And, again Mike, if the answers were easy this wouldn't be a problem. I want Muslims to drop Sharia Law and those oppressive beliefs in favor of more moderate ones. (You know, that many Muslims practice! It can be done....) I'm not going to run away from the right solution because it's hard.
  6. TheLeviathan
    The overwhelming majority of Muslims support Sharia Law. You should read up on it. I know it sounds like a right-wing boogeyman, but it's highly regressive, oppressive, and scary. So, no, this point doesn't stand. Where in the Bible belt are lynchings, throwing people off buildings, or honor killings happening? I'd like that sourced please.
  7. TheLeviathan
    Sub "American Racism" for "Islam" and "black people" for "our culture" and let me know how much you still love that logic.
  8. TheLeviathan
    That's still a problem! The "allowance" is EXACTLY the issue. Christianity, by and large, has disavowed and shunned groups with those issues. In Islam, they convene counsels of elders who are allowed 3 women a day to be stoned or burned alive in the name of honor. The left has no problem denouncing Christianity for basically not liking homosexuality (a deserving reaction) but can't stand the idea of outwardly rejecting an entire ethics and justice system based on oppression and hate that looks more like medieval Christianity. Why the total hypocrisy? This IS a product of Islam. It's time to use every means, short of war, to start fighting this. To give the reformers what they need to reform the religion. That's the root cause.
  9. TheLeviathan
    Well, perhaps we should start by all agreeing that everytime someone says "It's only a tiny fraction of Islamists!" - we agree that person is in denial. Again, I'll make it analogous to America so those of you arguing this can see the total hypocrisy of your position: The KKK or the West Baptist church is only a tiny fraction of America bent on killing gays or blacks. We shouldn't judge all of America by that and therefore shouldn't look for anything else beyond these whackos to explain what's happening. You agree with that? No? Yeah, me either. You know why? (And I hope you agree) Well, even though not all Americans should be judged by that, I still have to look deeper than the extremists to find the real problem. In America that's a long history of racism that has spurred the existence of these groups and policies that have long carried over the effects of racism, allowing them to continue to survive. So just as some schmuck saying "I disagree with the KKK, but it's false that racism still exists" is not someone who I take seriously on this issue, nor do I take any of you seriously that think 1% of Islam is all at issue here. Hell, you don't even agree with your own reasoning. You're just selectively applying it and you don't see it.
  10. TheLeviathan
    Aren't those exactly the kind of people that a widely fanatical society will foster to violence?
  11. TheLeviathan
    Is there no in between mike? I can throw suggestions out layer when I have more time, but there is a large gulf between Trump and American liberalism where we can find solutions. But it irritates me to no end the hypocrisy of not being able to see how oppressive religious fundamentalism is akin to racism. I could care less about empty rejections of terrorism when the root cause is passionately supported or roundly allowed.
  12. TheLeviathan
    Yup, right polls. Let me retort with a question.. When everyone agrees police shouldn't murder black men, do you take that as enough when those same people support or deny the role of underlying racism and poverty? Or worse, support the perpetuation of those problems? Because widespread support of religious fundamentalism is the same kind of problem.
  13. TheLeviathan
    Oh, and solution? Eliminate ISIS and heavily support reformers and condemn the nations that supress them in every way we can.
  14. TheLeviathan
    You should both look at the Pew polls, the argument that this behavior is a tiny fraction is a false narrative. There are a majority that support regressive, barbaric policy. So, no, I reject those arguments completely.
  15. TheLeviathan
    Seller's market, don't let a week of playing the Rangers influence your decisions. Pick up the damn phone and see what's out there Terry!
  16. TheLeviathan
    The underlying issues were always there, they were just contained by another force of brutality. ISIS was born out of Iraq, but the real problem was not. I wonder what it will take for the left in the west to accept that? In Orlando it was our gun laws and homophobia. In San Bernadino it was our gun laws. We ignore 3 honor killings a day just in Pakistan. But we have no problem when we see the West Baptists Church of saying: "Look at those hateful Christians" You can't blame gun laws today. What's it going to take to accept the real source of all this hate and violence? Once we do then we can start really working to bring Islam into the modern world, but like I said....I wonder what the excuse will be today. More French lives lost and we want to stick our head in the sand because our ideological tribe just can't accept the real source of the problem.
  17. TheLeviathan
    Obama really shined in that town hall last night (as he usually does, he was born for that) - I highly recommend it.
  18. TheLeviathan
    French President seemed to make clear this was another act of Islamic terror. Unsurprisingly, sadly.
  19. TheLeviathan
    I feared this happening to BLM protesters, this sounds like a vile attack. Every few days.....ugh.
  20. TheLeviathan
    Well, if we both agree they don't work....why are we arguing it? As for the city services, I'm going to have to defer that to people who can run numbers on where most supporters of BLM are spending their money. Maybe it's public transportation. Maybe it's something else. That would take some investigating, but where better to get someone to change something than by hitting their pocket book? Not even gerrymandering will get in the way of influencing politicians that are seeing dollars go away.
  21. TheLeviathan
    Of course they knew about segragation, but did people in Idaho know about Rosa Parks? Or did your average schmo in Minnesota know the nuances of it? I doubt it. It also was a way to galvanize awareness among supporters about what was trying to be accomplished and how. Merely voicing your displeasure is not a strategy for change. People care more about the message and the messenger than about how much they are inconvenienced. You don't annoy people into listening, you annoy them into being annoyed. And since 25-30 percent is already on your side, an equal number annoyed regardless, you have the other 30-40 percent you are trying to join your message....not be annoyed by its messengers. You're basically arguing that you have to annoy people into being your galvanized supporters and I just think that's preposterous as a strategy.
  22. TheLeviathan
    Has any of what I've suggested actually been tried? What systematic boycott efforts have I missed? I hear some rhetoric about getting votes out, but that has a long history of being spotty. Again you seem to be deferring to what feels easy and quick and emotional and not strategy. If the best you can come up with for why these protests are a good idea is that they won't take a long time, then you're right....I'm not going to be convinced.
  23. TheLeviathan
    Does this make them care to help people? Making someone "uncomfortable' (which, by they way, is debatable. I'd argue "angry" might be better...and not always focused the direction you want it) doesn't usually spur people to action. I'd argue, everyone that got chastised for being late for work that day probably didn't leave work saying "I can't wait to go out there an support BLM and the highway protesters!" either. All you probably got them to say was "#^*#, I was late for work!' or "I'm sitting here on a hot day burning gas!" How does that further your cause? You didn't get them angry about police brutality - you got them angry about dopes in the road.
  24. TheLeviathan
    It's a lazy solution because it avoids the bigger, more difficult issues. The very issues you brought up, by the way. But, sorry, those issues still remain whether you laid in the street or not. What do these accomplish? Do any of those 99.99999% get up and do anything different? So I ask again...you shut down the highway....now what? What did you accomplish?
  25. TheLeviathan
    Yes, they are stark regardless of what people did in reaction. What is stark is the intentions of the marchers. The marchers in Selma wanted to communicate unity, dedication, and to represent their passion for this with a large movement of people. What do these people want? To make enough people late to work so they call their representative? Join in on the next one? Again I ask - what is the purpose? Others tell me awareness and then dodge the issue again when I point it out, so I'll point it out again: This isn't 1960 when something like this would actually cause people to be aware of something new. Who is becoming newly aware of these issues by these protests?
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