Thrylos

Totally agree. And the Twins' as an organization unfortunately do not value that. Look at the energy their manager brings. Then look at the energy that someone like GoGo brought and you know what happened with him.... for some strange reason these Twins like low key robotic type of guys. They call that "professional"

ok. Confirmed. Jake Proctor will be announced tomorrow.

14th round pick Jake Proctor © apparently signed as well

Good stuff. Sounds like you got some dirt about the attendance (which is btw the smallest in pro ball this side of low Rookie leagues). Care to share?

Mason Melotakis (2nd) and Zack Jones (4th) both signed. Both Ps And both to report to Elizabethton

Cool. DJ Hicks. 17th round pick 1B. Do you have an amount?

Here is what I do not get about this: How can Appel (and every other College baseball player) hire a pro agent and still be able to play NCAA ball. NCAA FB players would have been tarred and feathered if they did than (Has happened before.)

Got to add Adam Bret Walker II there some place, Max Keppel and I would argue maybe even Sano. There is a 17 year old kid in the Dominican called Junior Amarante who is another name to know from there. Danny Santana and Jairo Perez have both been playing a bit in the OF at Fort Myers, and Rosario is around in Beloit. so the Twins have some options. About the Revere discussion. Revere has been hitting .307/.337/.409 a pretty respectable .746 OPS (109 OPS+) that is actually higher than Span's And he has been playing better than Span lately and his glove is better than Span's. I would absolutely not mind if here replaces Span at this point, if the latter brings something (SP) back. Revere came back from AAA changed. Hope Parmelee is too...

Benson played most of the season with a broken wrist. He needs a break (No pun intended.) He can be judged as a hitter when his wrist is healed and he is 100%.

ok... I take that as constructive criticism So... I gave y'all evidence of 20 pitchers who did better (and some flourished) after they left the Gardy and Andy mess. And numbers do not lie. Period. Unless y'all give me 20 or more pitchers who improved under Gardy and Andy, you got to take the truth and see the reality that these guys are hurting our team big time. Just saying. Put up or shut up. (Isn't that how that saying goes?) Thank you.

any evidence to add to your claim, Toby?

The funny thing about that is that if you look at the park factors, in the 2000s the Metrodome was about 100 (which is average), so it was considered a "pitcher's" park. Seriously.

From what I hear from people in CT, he was totally disappointed that he was not picked earlier and he is noodling it. His skillset is just like his dad's. And I really liked watching his dad get those pinch hits in the 80s. Another convoluted thing: Gardy and Andy were teammates with LJ's dad. Not sure how that will play into the equation. But the kid is a great kid, very academic (and goes to a good school, so he might want to finish that) and he projects as a maybe 2B/PH in the bigs. Maybe. So that's that.

The timing of this is extremely funny. I have been having this to do thing in the back of my mind and look how many pitchers performed better when they left the Twins (and Andy) and/or after the Twins gave up on them. I just looked at this Millennium and only on MLB pitchers, so Peter Moylan, Sergio Santos et al are not included in the list. And I just did it minutes ago. There are 20 (!!!) pitchers who actually performed better after they left the Twins. I think that this is pretty darn significant about the way the Twins deal with pitching. The full list is here. Enjoy

Originally published at The Tenth Inning Stretch --- I think that a lot of the Minnesota Twins' fans have been frustrated with the way the Twins have been performing this and the last season. Some of us have been frustrated even longer, since the Twins have last won a World Series in 1991. That was 21 seasons ago. Kids who were born then they can now buy booze. Not good. Anecdotally, there have been a lot of remarks and thoughts about the Twins trying to create cookie cutter pitchers, about Ron Anderson (who was named the pitching coach when Ron Gardenhire was named the manager i 2001) wanted everyone in the whole organization to throw the 2 seamerand pitch to contact. But gut feelings and all, this blog is about substantiated evidence and numbers. So here is what I did, and here is what I am presenting: I looked at all pitchers who wore a Twins' uniform this Millennium and compared how they did while with the Twins vs. how they did after they lft the Twins. I went as far as 2009-10 (but some of the latest losses have inconclusive numbers). And here is the honor roll. A list of 20 pitchers who did better after tey left the Twins, when they were older, when they were past their prime. Not one or two (like Jose Reyes who did phenomenally while with the Twins) but 20. It cannot be a coincidence. And I am not even including pitchers like Sergio Santos and Peter Moylan on whom the Twinsgave up before they ever gave them a chance. Here is Rick Anderson's (ok a couple are before his time) Honor Roll: Luis Ayala: Twins 2009 (age 31) : 4.18 ERA, 1.423 WHIP, 5.8 K/9, 2.63 K/BB (was cut) Yankees 2011 (age 33) : 2.09 ERA, 1.268 WHIP, 6.3 K/9, 1.95 K/BB Orioles 2012 (age 34) : 1.82 ERA, 1.054 WHIP, 5.1 K/9, 2.80 K/BB Grand Balfour: Twins (2001-2004 ages 23-26) : 4.63 ERA, 1.456 WHIP, 9.8 K/9, 1.95 K/BB Rays (2007-2010 ages 29-32) : 3.33 ERA, 1.212 WHIP, 10.4 K/9, 2.6 K/BB Athletics (2011-2012 ages 33-34) : 2.78 ERA, 1.145 WHIP, 8 K/9, 2.52 K/BB Joe Beimel: Twins (2004, age 27) : 43.20 ERA, 6 WHIP, 1.2 IP (was cut) LA Dodgers (2006-2008, ages 29-31) 3.04 ERA, 1.336 WHIP, 4.9 K/8, 1.53 K/BB Nationals (2009 age 32) 3.40 ERA, 1.336 WHIP, 5.4 K/8, 1.6 K/BB Rockies (2009-10 ages 32-33) : 3.56 ERA, 1.385 WHIP, 4.7 K/9, 1.68 K/BB Craig Breslow: Twins 2008-9 (ages 27-28) : 2.89 ERA, 1.132 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 1.72 K/BB (was cut) Oakland 2009-11 (ages 28-30) : 3.14 ERA, 1.199 WHIP, 7.6 K/9, 2.34 K/BB Arizona 2012 (age 31) : 2.13 ERA, 1.026 WHIP, 7.8 K/9, 2.2 K/BB Jesse Crain: Twins 2004-10 (ages 22-28) : 3.42 ERA, 1.257 WHIP, 6.2 K/9, 1.87 K/BB White Sox 2011-12 (ages 29-30) : 2.37 ERA, 1.180 WHIP, 9.8 K/9, 2.42 K/BB Jack Cressend: Twins (2000-2001 ages 25-27) : 4.59 ERA, 1.480 WHIP, 6 K/9, 1.66 K/BB Indians (2003-2004 ages 28-29) : 3.53 ERA, 1.381 WHIP, 5.5 K/9 1.89 K/BB R.A. Dickey: Twins: 2009 (age 34) : 4.62 ERA, 1.617 WHIP, 5.9 K/9, 1.4 K/BB Mets: 2010-12 (ages 35-37) 3.08 ERA, 1.193 WHIP, 6 K/9, 2.65 K/BB Willie Eyre: Twins 2006 (age 27) : 5.31 ERA, 1.635 WHIP, 3.9 K/9, 1.18 K/BB Texas 2007-9 (ages 28-30) : 5.02 ERA, 1.558 WHIP, 5.2 K/9, 1.32 K/BB Baltimore 2011 (age 32) : 3.44 ERA, 0.927 WHIP, 4.9 K/9, 2 K/BB Aaron Fultz: Twins (2004, age 30) : 5.04 ERA, 1.460 WHIP, 6.7 K/9, 1.61 K/BB Phillies (2005-6 ages 31-32) : 3.38 ERA, 1.239 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 2.27 K/BB Indians (2007, age 33) : 2.92 ERA, 1.324 WHIP, 6.8, 1.56 K/BB Matt Garza: Twins 2006-7 (ages 22-23) : 4.47 ERA, 1.602 WHIP, 7.1 K/9, 1.91 K/BB Rays 2008-10 (ages 24-26) : 3.86 ERA, 1.251 WHIP, 7.1 K/9, 2.32 K/BB Cubs 2011-12 (ages 27-28) : 3.51 ERA, 1.237 WHIP, 8.8 K/9, 3.00 K/BB LaTroy Hawkins: Twins: (SP/RP 1995-2003 ages 22-30): 5.05 ERA, 1.523 WHIP, 5.9 K/9, 1.83 K/BB Twins: (RP: 2000-2003 ages 27-30): 3.09 ERA, 1.271 WHIP, 7.1 K/9, 2.31 K/BB Cubs: (2004-2005 ages 31-32) : 2.76 ERA, 1.099 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 3.9 K/BB Livan Hernandez: Twins 2008 (age 33) : 5.48 ERA, 1.632 WHIP, 3.5 K/9, 1.86 K/BB Nationals 2009-11 (ages 34-36) 4.17 ERA, 1.363 WHIP, 5.0 K/9, 1.82 K/BB Atlanta 2012 (age 37) : 3.68 ERA, 1.389 WHIP, 5.8 K/9, 2.38 K/BB Phil Humber: Twins 2008-9 (ages 25-26) : 6.10 ERA, 2.032 WHIP, 6.5 K/9, 1.07 K/BB Royals 2010 (age 27) : 4.15 ERA, 1.338 WHIP, 6.6 K/9, 2.29 K/BB White Sox 2011-12 (ages 28-29) : 4.14 ERA, 1.219 WHIP, 6.8 K/9, 2.55 K/BB Mike Lincoln: Twins (1999-2000 ages 24-25) : 7.70 ERA, 1.825 WHIP, 3.9 K/9, 1.08 K/BB Pirates (2001-2003 ages 26-28) : 3.50 ERA, 1.362 WHIP, 6.2 K/9, 2 K/BB Kyle Lohse: Twins 2001-2006 (ages 22-27) : 4.88 ERA, 1.447 WHIP, 5.6 K/9, 1.94 K/BB Reds 2006-2007 (ages 27-28) : 4.58 ERA, 1.361 WHIP, 6.1 K/9, 2.52 K/BB Cardinals 2008-2012 (ages 29-33) : 4.18 ERA, 1.332 WHIP, 5.4 K/9, 2.33 K/BB Jose Mijares: Twins 2009-11 (ages 23-26) : 3.16 ERA, 1.315 WHIP, 6.9 K/9, 1.9 K/BB Royals 2012 (age 27) : 2.49 ERA, 1.200 WHIP, 6.6 K/9, 4.0 K/BB Mark Redman: Twins (1999-2001 ages 25-27) : 4.86 ERA, 1.469 WHIP, 6.6 K/9, 2.21 K/BB Detroit (2001-2002 ages 27-28) : 4.29 ERA, 1.307 WHIP, 4.8 K/9, 2.05 K/BB Florida (2003 age 29) : 3.59 ERA, 1.222 WHIP, 7.1 K/9, 2.48 K/BB JC Romero: Twins: (1999-2005 ages 23-29) : 4.35 ERA, 1.482 WHIP, 7.4 K/9, 1.61 K/BB Philies: (2007-2011 ages 31-35) : 2.73 ERA, 1.406 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 1.14 K/BB Brad Thomas: Twins (2001-2004 ages 23-26) : 9.89 ERA, 2.155 WHIP, 3 K/9, 0.85 K/BB Tigers (2010-2011 ages 32-33) : 4.59 ERA, 1.606 WHIP, 4.1 K/9, 1.06 K/BB That is a lot of opportunity lost. A lot of adverse results. And this does not even include the current pitchers. It is not one or two or 3. Twenty. The Twins can just not ignore this any more... http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8146/6993287178_3b8e20786d.jpg

Originally published at The Tenth Inning Stretch --- I think that a lot of the Minnesota Twins' fans have been frustrated with the way the Twins have been performing this and the last season. Some of us have been frustrated even longer, since the Twins have last won a World Series in 1991. That was 21 seasons ago. Kids who were born then they can now buy booze. Not good. Anecdotally, there have been a lot of remarks and thoughts about the Twins trying to create cookie cutter pitchers, about Ron Anderson (who was named the pitching coach when Ron Gardenhire was named the manager i 2001) wanted everyone in the whole organization to throw the 2 seamerand pitch to contact. But gut feelings and all, this blog is about substantiated evidence and numbers. So here is what I did, and here is what I am presenting: I looked at all pitchers who wore a Twins' uniform this Millennium and compared how they did while with the Twins vs. how they did after they lft the Twins. I went as far as 2009-10 (but some of the latest losses have inconclusive numbers). And here is the honor roll. A list of 20 pitchers who did better after tey left the Twins, when they were older, when they were past their prime. Not one or two (like Jose Reyes who did phenomenally while with the Twins) but 20. It cannot be a coincidence. And I am not even including pitchers like Sergio Santos and Peter Moylan on whom the Twinsgave up before they ever gave them a chance. Here is Rick Anderson's (ok a couple are before his time) Honor Roll: Luis Ayala: Twins 2009 (age 31) : 4.18 ERA, 1.423 WHIP, 5.8 K/9, 2.63 K/BB (was cut) Yankees 2011 (age 33) : 2.09 ERA, 1.268 WHIP, 6.3 K/9, 1.95 K/BB Orioles 2012 (age 34) : 1.82 ERA, 1.054 WHIP, 5.1 K/9, 2.80 K/BB Grand Balfour: Twins (2001-2004 ages 23-26) : 4.63 ERA, 1.456 WHIP, 9.8 K/9, 1.95 K/BB Rays (2007-2010 ages 29-32) : 3.33 ERA, 1.212 WHIP, 10.4 K/9, 2.6 K/BB Athletics (2011-2012 ages 33-34) : 2.78 ERA, 1.145 WHIP, 8 K/9, 2.52 K/BB Joe Beimel: Twins (2004, age 27) : 43.20 ERA, 6 WHIP, 1.2 IP (was cut) LA Dodgers (2006-2008, ages 29-31) 3.04 ERA, 1.336 WHIP, 4.9 K/8, 1.53 K/BB Nationals (2009 age 32) 3.40 ERA, 1.336 WHIP, 5.4 K/8, 1.6 K/BB Rockies (2009-10 ages 32-33) : 3.56 ERA, 1.385 WHIP, 4.7 K/9, 1.68 K/BB Craig Breslow: Twins 2008-9 (ages 27-28) : 2.89 ERA, 1.132 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 1.72 K/BB (was cut) Oakland 2009-11 (ages 28-30) : 3.14 ERA, 1.199 WHIP, 7.6 K/9, 2.34 K/BB Arizona 2012 (age 31) : 2.13 ERA, 1.026 WHIP, 7.8 K/9, 2.2 K/BB Jesse Crain: Twins 2004-10 (ages 22-28) : 3.42 ERA, 1.257 WHIP, 6.2 K/9, 1.87 K/BB White Sox 2011-12 (ages 29-30) : 2.37 ERA, 1.180 WHIP, 9.8 K/9, 2.42 K/BB Jack Cressend: Twins (2000-2001 ages 25-27) : 4.59 ERA, 1.480 WHIP, 6 K/9, 1.66 K/BB Indians (2003-2004 ages 28-29) : 3.53 ERA, 1.381 WHIP, 5.5 K/9 1.89 K/BB R.A. Dickey: Twins: 2009 (age 34) : 4.62 ERA, 1.617 WHIP, 5.9 K/9, 1.4 K/BB Mets: 2010-12 (ages 35-37) 3.08 ERA, 1.193 WHIP, 6 K/9, 2.65 K/BB Willie Eyre: Twins 2006 (age 27) : 5.31 ERA, 1.635 WHIP, 3.9 K/9, 1.18 K/BB Texas 2007-9 (ages 28-30) : 5.02 ERA, 1.558 WHIP, 5.2 K/9, 1.32 K/BB Baltimore 2011 (age 32) : 3.44 ERA, 0.927 WHIP, 4.9 K/9, 2 K/BB Aaron Fultz: Twins (2004, age 30) : 5.04 ERA, 1.460 WHIP, 6.7 K/9, 1.61 K/BB Phillies (2005-6 ages 31-32) : 3.38 ERA, 1.239 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 2.27 K/BB Indians (2007, age 33) : 2.92 ERA, 1.324 WHIP, 6.8, 1.56 K/BB Matt Garza: Twins 2006-7 (ages 22-23) : 4.47 ERA, 1.602 WHIP, 7.1 K/9, 1.91 K/BB Rays 2008-10 (ages 24-26) : 3.86 ERA, 1.251 WHIP, 7.1 K/9, 2.32 K/BB Cubs 2011-12 (ages 27-28) : 3.51 ERA, 1.237 WHIP, 8.8 K/9, 3.00 K/BB LaTroy Hawkins: Twins: (SP/RP 1995-2003 ages 22-30): 5.05 ERA, 1.523 WHIP, 5.9 K/9, 1.83 K/BB Twins: (RP: 2000-2003 ages 27-30): 3.09 ERA, 1.271 WHIP, 7.1 K/9, 2.31 K/BB Cubs: (2004-2005 ages 31-32) : 2.76 ERA, 1.099 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 3.9 K/BB Livan Hernandez: Twins 2008 (age 33) : 5.48 ERA, 1.632 WHIP, 3.5 K/9, 1.86 K/BB Nationals 2009-11 (ages 34-36) 4.17 ERA, 1.363 WHIP, 5.0 K/9, 1.82 K/BB Atlanta 2012 (age 37) : 3.68 ERA, 1.389 WHIP, 5.8 K/9, 2.38 K/BB Phil Humber: Twins 2008-9 (ages 25-26) : 6.10 ERA, 2.032 WHIP, 6.5 K/9, 1.07 K/BB Royals 2010 (age 27) : 4.15 ERA, 1.338 WHIP, 6.6 K/9, 2.29 K/BB White Sox 2011-12 (ages 28-29) : 4.14 ERA, 1.219 WHIP, 6.8 K/9, 2.55 K/BB Mike Lincoln: Twins (1999-2000 ages 24-25) : 7.70 ERA, 1.825 WHIP, 3.9 K/9, 1.08 K/BB Pirates (2001-2003 ages 26-28) : 3.50 ERA, 1.362 WHIP, 6.2 K/9, 2 K/BB Kyle Lohse: Twins 2001-2006 (ages 22-27) : 4.88 ERA, 1.447 WHIP, 5.6 K/9, 1.94 K/BB Reds 2006-2007 (ages 27-28) : 4.58 ERA, 1.361 WHIP, 6.1 K/9, 2.52 K/BB Cardinals 2008-2012 (ages 29-33) : 4.18 ERA, 1.332 WHIP, 5.4 K/9, 2.33 K/BB Jose Mijares: Twins 2009-11 (ages 23-26) : 3.16 ERA, 1.315 WHIP, 6.9 K/9, 1.9 K/BB Royals 2012 (age 27) : 2.49 ERA, 1.200 WHIP, 6.6 K/9, 4.0 K/BB Mark Redman: Twins (1999-2001 ages 25-27) : 4.86 ERA, 1.469 WHIP, 6.6 K/9, 2.21 K/BB Detroit (2001-2002 ages 27-28) : 4.29 ERA, 1.307 WHIP, 4.8 K/9, 2.05 K/BB Florida (2003 age 29) : 3.59 ERA, 1.222 WHIP, 7.1 K/9, 2.48 K/BB JC Romero: Twins: (1999-2005 ages 23-29) : 4.35 ERA, 1.482 WHIP, 7.4 K/9, 1.61 K/BB Philies: (2007-2011 ages 31-35) : 2.73 ERA, 1.406 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 1.14 K/BB Brad Thomas: Twins (2001-2004 ages 23-26) : 9.89 ERA, 2.155 WHIP, 3 K/9, 0.85 K/BB Tigers (2010-2011 ages 32-33) : 4.59 ERA, 1.606 WHIP, 4.1 K/9, 1.06 K/BB That is a lot of opportunity lost. A lot of adverse results. And this does not even include the current pitchers. It is not one or two or 3. Twenty. The Twins can just not ignore this any more... http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8146/6993287178_3b8e20786d.jpg

just a couple of comparisons (with other 3B of note) to see how well Sano is doing, instead of worrying about the K/BB ratio, which will be fine. And as far as fielding goes, he is a first baseman, like the other 2. Sano has a .889 OPS as a 19 year old in A ball. 33 BB and 67 K almost a 2:1 K/BB ratio. 14 HR in 210 AB, which is 1 HR per 15 AB. Jim Thome in A ball as a 19 year old had .888 OPS an 1:1 K/BB ratio and 4 HR in 117 AB which is 1 HR per 29 AB. Sano has double that rate. Miguel Cabrera in A ball as a 19 year old had .754 OPS 38 BB and 85 K for higher than 2:1 K/BB ratio and 9 HR in 489 AB, which is 1 HR per 54 AB

So they are not in a sorry state right now? Because they are on a pace for only 98 losses a season after they lost 99? Credit? For having the worse record in the AL while having the 7th highest payroll? The same: Ryan, Gardy, Andy, Vavry, Scotty, Liddly and company. They still have the worse record in the league. The distance has closed some (because of the schedule) but they are the worse team in the AL. Lots of credit needs to be given for that. If they are tops on the division by a lot of cushion and they field a competitive team in the post-season, then we can talk positively about the people who are ru(i)nning this team...

Hard for the Twins to risk losing him with Pavano's shoulder situation not resolved. They will be needing a 5th starter sometime. Now they are betting on Pavano being that but that is not a certain bet. De Vries did alright and proved to be servicable. If a team takes a flyer on Marquis, they for sure have taken one on DeVries. It is a long season and the Twins cannot afford to lose any starters other than in a trade.

Been saying this for a while: I think that my local team (the Phillies) is the best Twins' partner for such a trade because it has a lot of good young stuck pitching and a serious OF need. Might take a couple more pieces to make it work, but... and I am dead serious about the Phillies being it. And they will overspend for someone like Span (just ask the 'voice of reason' )

Revere hit a ball off him.

Yes. The kid reduced to tears practically is Twins' first of the 2 sup round picks, RHP Jose Berrios

True. But here is how it works, in plain English: The Twins' pool is $12,368,200, based on their top 10 round picks, with their 10th rounder, DJ Baxendale slated to be signed up to $125K. Now if the Twins spend (let's say) $10 M to sign all their top 10 picks, they would have $2.3M extra to throw to round 11-40 picks. They can pay all that to one or to more players. So potentially a 40th rounder, can make $2.4M in this scenario. All good and kosher and no penalties. Of course, they can pay someone in the 1st 10 rounds above slot, but that is totalled. Picks 11-40 can be singed for up to $100K each, but if someone signs for less, the leftover cannot be spent elsewhere.

Looks like the Twins will not sign him. Details here.