jokin

Haha i hear ya...who knows? Two more spots to clear via DFA/non-tender before the Winter Meetings left. Son of Sal and the other 30 day wonder, Tim Wood.

Tommie, we hardly knew ye... The point, again on the original move was...what???

The Twins could throw in Morneau, then, that might sweeten the deal and keep Mauer off of 1B full-time, to boot. The Twins should be able to get 4 legit prospects on that deal plus John Lester (team-friendly contract with team option for 2014). The rebuild from the ground up group has appeared and send the Twins on the path of the Pirates and Royals. Red Sox probably do not have that many super prospects. The ones they got from the Dodgers were like at highest 3 on down and that is generous, it was more like a 5 and lower. The Red Sox still have great prospects in their system and seem desperate to make this deal- which means- Xander Bogaerts is likely on the table, along with 5 good-to-very-good SP prospects, at least two of whom are major-league ready. Can you imagine the Twins solving their MI for the next 15 years by acquiring both Bogaerts and Jose Iglesias....?....along with 2 SP prospects with Hi K/Low WHIP histories.....AND Jon Lester???? That's nothing close to a Pirate/Royal-type deal and probably is too rich for the Sox to give up, but they do have other near ML-ready prospects as well, at Catcher, 3B and MI. A payroll-cleansing move like this obviously opens up other non-Pirate/Royal options for further bolstering for another starting pitcher and position player- and getting the timing right for the top farm prospects to fill the open spots in 2014 and 2015.

A rising tide lifts all boats. The Cubs aren't doing the Twins any favors, that's for sure. This is just false. First, the Cubs organization is very, very stupid. And they are my second favorite team, by far. They are just dumb. Anyway, how short memories are. Remember Mark Buehrle? He got a RIDICULOUS contract.early last offseason and the market subsequently fell for a bunch of pitchers. I am not sure how to respond to such immediate responses like this. Good grief. I think what you're saying was once true, but things are quickly changing just below the surface for the Cubs. They were very shrewd signing Maholm last year and flipping him for a top-10 pitching prospect from the Braves (Vizcaino) along with another good looking pitcher ( a scenario I begged the Twins to take by signing Maholm, Bedard and Jackson last spring). As a Cubs fan, you do realize that between FA, trades and waiver acquisitions (another area where Ryan has been lacking, especially in such an advantageous position), the Cubs have acquired 10 RHP since July 31, right?!? They offloaded some hefty salaries ( and they have 3 more PTBNL picks coming besides) and got another top-10 infielder (Christian Villenueva). They established the future direction of the team when they signed Starlin Castro and Jorge Soler (going to be a monster) to relatively inexpensive long-term deals. And they got Rob Deer in as a hitting coach. If things don't pan out in the first half of 2013, as is likely, they just flip these one-year contracts and unload more salaries for more prospects. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Watch out come 2014. If Terry Ryan could only have been just half as "stupid" as the Cubs have been over the last 7 months.

The Twins could throw in Morneau, then, that might sweeten the deal and keep Mauer off of 1B full-time, to boot. The Twins should be able to get 4 legit prospects on that deal plus John Lester (team-friendly contract with team option for 2014).

The 20 that followed the dollars can often make a boatload more money through leveraging their deal through enhanced performance on a winning team and through outside endorsements that could vastly ouststrip the extra million dollars/yr that the Twins might pay. Watch which teams receive the most minutes of coverage on Baseball Tonight and correlate that to endorsement deals and future Free Agency.

I'm talking solely about 2013. There's a good chance that if Ryan goes after marginal guys for $6m per year, he wouldn't have any money left for a real starting pitcher that will be with the team for more than one season. These pitching woes aren't going away after this season and if the Twins spend a bunch of money on short-term, marginal pitchers, they just have to do this again next offseason (and the pitching staff is probably awful for a third consecutive season). If given the choice, I'll take one legitimate #2/3 guy over a handful of #4s. As a fan, who wouldn't take that choice? As a player, who would choose the Twins? All the Twins have to do is offer more money than 29 other teams. Not necessarily always true. A player, and even sometimes his agent, have other factors to consider- ie, the chances for winning, leveraging of the deal down the road for more profit, outside endorsement possibilities, agent currying favor for other clients, the city the team plays in, the league the team plays in, team colors preferred by the player's wife, etc. Do you deny that in the Twins current competitive state that they are likely not the first team on most FAs wish list?

I'm talking solely about 2013. There's a good chance that if Ryan goes after marginal guys for $6m per year, he wouldn't have any money left for a real starting pitcher that will be with the team for more than one season. These pitching woes aren't going away after this season and if the Twins spend a bunch of money on short-term, marginal pitchers, they just have to do this again next offseason (and the pitching staff is probably awful for a third consecutive season). If given the choice, I'll take one legitimate #2/3 guy over a handful of #4s. As a fan, who wouldn't take that choice? As a player, who would choose the Twins?

Does anyone think Ryan's year-end bonus for 2012 will be based on winning 3 more games than 2011?... or by saving $20M from the payroll? I'm guessing the Twins were MORE profitable this year than last, and will likely be more profitable next year than this year- after a further payroll cut. Bottom line, the club is waiting for "the turn" of talent in the minors and won't spend one dime more than is necessary until then.

You're totally right. The Twins are now on par with the Yankees, Phillies, Dodgers, and Cubs. I don't know what I was thinking, pointing out that some teams have more money to spend on risky free agent-types. Your passive-agressive approach is obvious and a bit tedious at this point. I don't think anyone who knows the answer to 2 + 2 argues that the Twins are on a par with those aformentioned clubs and that's not the point and you know it full well. The argument is about what was "conceded" that the new approach would supposedly become at the time of the agreement to the commitment to TF- and what has actually taken place in the interim- and you know that is true, as well. Look, I think we can agree that the current approach of the Twins is like a Model A trying to compete in the Sprint Cup Series. I don't see Oakland, Baltimore or Tampa Bay donning the same old scarf and goggles that the Twins seem to be wearing.

TR should have spent the last 3 months getting his ducks in a row and picking off the low-hanging fruit in the month of November to show the league and the fanbase the seriousness of his intent. As another poster just said, this club needs both quantity and quality. A couple of legit, albeit lower-impact major leaguers should already be on the 2013 roster via trade or FA. That Baker signed elsewhere implies either of the following to me: a) Ryan has seriously underestimated the price of starting pitching or every pitcher that receives "a final offer from the Twins "will immediately shop it" and sign elsewhere for slightly more, thus forcing the Twins to make "a blow-away" offer in order to sign a pitcher. Good points. I'd amend "a" by stating this club has had a serious dis-ability in OVER-estimating the value of their existing starting pitching (Pavano, Blackburn, Marquis, et al) In regard to Baker, I'd add: c) The club burned any lingering goodwill bridges with how they handled Big Spot Scott and his injury.

That's fine - but then you have to realize the issue with this deal is not that he was overpaid, but that he wasn't what you want. That isn't what others are saying. What this indicates, without question, is that the one guy you want is going to take a LOT of money to sign. So deals like this make sense for a to make if it doesn't want to hamstring itself long-term. Also, this team needs quantity and quality, so there is something to be said for taking low-risk moves that could pay off. These guys might both be "bums" or they could end up being solid bargains with attractive trade value for a team continuing to rebuild a bad farm. We've gone one full year with the "new" regime and everything old is new again. Crying poor and TR competing with a torn and tattered rule book well past it's expiration date. What you are advocating for is quite logical, and was logical a year ago- and many of us proposed such an approach then. Is there any indication whatsoever that they've yet figured this out down at One Twins Way? Or is there only just one Twins way- the "penurious" path on which birdwatcher loves treading. Who's crying poor? The Cubs have more money than the Twins. That's all there is to it. I thought we fixed the "compete with the big dogs" problem with TF? Your comment sounds like we've time-traveled back to the thrilling days of the Plasti-dome Era.

You do realize that acquiring two front-end starters with the approach this club takes is next to impossible, right? I am standing by my prediction of an ~$85M payroll. What say you? Two F/End starter acquisitions would push the payroll well past $100M. Do you really see this happening without gutting the team elsewhere on the roster? It's just not the penurious one's style now, is it?

TR should have spent the last 3 months getting his ducks in a row and picking off the low-hanging fruit in the month of November to show the league and the fanbase the seriousness of his intent. As another poster just said, this club needs both quantity and quality. A couple of legit, albeit lower-impact major leaguers should already be on the 2013 roster via trade or FA.

That's fine - but then you have to realize the issue with this deal is not that he was overpaid, but that he wasn't what you want. That isn't what others are saying. What this indicates, without question, is that the one guy you want is going to take a LOT of money to sign. So deals like this make sense for a to make if it doesn't want to hamstring itself long-term. Also, this team needs quantity and quality, so there is something to be said for taking low-risk moves that could pay off. These guys might both be "bums" or they could end up being solid bargains with attractive trade value for a team continuing to rebuild a bad farm. We've gone one full year with the "new" regime and everything old is new again. Crying poor and TR competing with a torn and tattered rule book well past it's expiration date. What you are advocating for is quite logical, and was logical a year ago- and many of us proposed such an approach then. Is there any indication whatsoever that they've yet figured this out down at One Twins Way? Or is there only just one Twins way- the "penurious" path on which birdwatcher loves treading.

Past is Prologue. Let's just say I'm not holding my breath and expectantly warming up my vocal cords for the "praise-singing"...

Yeah, what a stroke of luck for rookie GM Theo Epstein, finding a dusty, forgotten, long-time Red Sock David Ortiz rotting away in a broom closet in the bowels of Fenway Park a couple of months after taking over. Oh, wait, Epstein signed him after Ryan decided he had no use for a designated hitter who could actually hit. But having All Stars like Dustin Pedroia, Jacoby Ellsbury, Jon Lester, and Clay Buchholz all make the team as walk-ons who just sort of showed up at spring training they way they did, Theo totally lucked out with those guys. Hmmm. Come to think of it, he picked all of them in the first or second round of the amateur draft. Sorry, totally meant to play along in your game of 'portray widely respected GM as lucky rube', but my examples weren't very good. :s-instagib: Epic, utter Takedown

I know in your ducky and bunny universe the Twins are on some pedestal above these teams, but I might remind you to check the standings. Past success has little to do with the future of this team and the moves they should be making with that in mind. But that's ok....If (more likely when based on past history) Terry Ryan doesn't sign anyone and his reasoning is that none of the players were in a price range they felt "comfortable" with - just make sure you come to his defense. He won't, he'll just act like it never happened in ducky/bunnyland, but the guy with the thing for birds sure will.

This is what the Twins should have been doing much more of in their advantageous last-place position the last two seasons and the off-season. Missed out on a lot of upside prospects- and multiple flippable guys to use to acquire even more upside prospects, for which obviously the Twins have a desperate need to raise the volume dearth currently coming through the system.

Gibson struggles through unscathed, good to see him battling through a little adversity without his best stuff, I'll take it every 3rd or 4th start. Let's see how he bounces back this weekend. Of particular note, Nate Roberts reaches base 3 more times, officially going 1/2, gets another HBP and now has a ridiculous .1346 OPS. He also came through with another SB, his 4th in 6 games played (2nd only to Billy Hamilton's 6). I am wondering why Chris Hermann isn't getting more action, he has played well in his 3 games played. I understand that Zunino is on the must-play list, but Hermann's numbers indicate he deserves a little more playing time- at least as much as the other catcher or Evan Bigley's 6 games played.

One more reason that the Twins front office management has to go, I also choke up bile when I look towards the center field fence- Heresy! They had the impossible done for them- an absolutely beautiful outdoor stadium shoe-horned into a postage stamp lot, built by the premier architect of the best modern baseball stadiums, Populous, (who built Camden, PNC and AT&T). For heavens sake! Call Bruce Miller up and get some suggestions on some remedies for that eyesore. The Giants, Orioles and Pirates managments have seen no need to desecrate their beautiful ballparks, only Dave St Peter felt that he can make a unilateral, willy-nilly move to desecrate a work of art- built of course, at taxpayer expense (presumably done with complete blessing from the Pohlads).

This comment seems to hit all the right notes. I am befuddled by all the people who come on here to advocate for, and blindly defend, maintainance of the status quo.

It's his thing. He ignores facts, Thrylos makes them up. The Twins Daily version of Romney/Ryan! Politics-injector always is the loser of the point in question.

Wow, convincing and conclusive evidence presented that "trading" a fan favorite for $20,000 is much better than trading him when he significantly more value earlier in 2011 before the deadline or trading him this year for two up-and-coming, and badly-needed, prospects.

Redemption is sweet as Hardy comes through in the 13th inning. In a year of 4 very competitive match-ups, this is playing out as the best and most interesting of the 4 ALDS series. For drama seekers, Friday night should be a lot of fun.