jokin

Which is yet another reason why the White Sox will be viewing the Twins in their rear view mirrors starting in 2014.

Of his 2 best years, the present performance masked a troubling future and the reality of the streaky, lucky and most importantly, consistent nature of Pelfrey's (lack of) pitching ability: 2008: ERA 3.72 xFIP 4.45 SIERA 4.61 2010: ERA 3.66 xFIP 4.31 SIERA 4.61 So who's the real Mike Pelfrey? Glad you asked: Career numbers: ERA 4.48 xFIP 4.50 SIERA 4.68

Believe the hype. And "desperate" is what the Twins FO is in distinct denial about.

Curious group left in the bidding. Astros and White Sox up against only one big-dollar team, the Red Sox? This seems like it could have been a winnable bidding war- with the Twins urgently needing punch in the lineup at First Base, huge wasted opportunity.

Except that's where they also plan for Kepler to play.

I don't think people in general are minimizing his past demonstration of his talents or his potential to bounce back. But even an anonymous source inside the Twins confirmed that he still projects as somewhat of a "lottery ticket" signing...and mindful that he isn't envisioned as front-end SP material. Remind me again of when's the last time the Twins were willing to take a flyer with the costs for the flyer starting at 3/$21?....That's what people are talking about...were it to occur, this would be the Twins one and only big offseason signing, with all the risks that it would entail.

How about hiring Jim Kaat to work with the starters on employing the "hurry-up", quick pitch attack? It kept him in the League about 10 years longer than he should have after his injuries and his arm aging.

Bingo. Furthermore, the reality for the pitching effectiveness in his ENTIRE CAREER, year-by-year, has been confirmed by horrible SIERA, xFIP, tERA....relative to good or bad ERA numbers. This result for Pelfrey in 2013 was entirely predictable, before the "luster" was painted on the signing originally, especially coming off of TJ.....and was forecasted by many on Twins Daily.

....But......aren't these 2 topics inextricably interlinked?

Punctuate and rationalize any way you wish, but your blanket conclusions still don't adequately defend the indefensible. To be "happy" about a #5-6 level SP, who, I might add, was unwanted/unneeded by his previous employer ( an employer more than happy to, in effect, "trade" him for Liriano, for less money), for maintaining, and not regressing, from his #5-6 level as a Starting Pitcher is just a sorrowful sop to a GM's 2013 clearly failed machinations. Liriano, Sanchez, Iwakuma, Kuroda, Colon, Guthrie, Lohse would beg to differ with your scattershot conclusion concerning that being "about it" for SPs...... they all had 2013 WAR values and/or superior performance metrics and peripherals that would have made them the Ace of the Twins staff.

And I forgot to mention that since the Twins "liked him" in 2010, Suk has developed "attitude issues".....that's sure to go over real big with the anal types in charge at field level. Is there a hidden Korean ex-pat demographic I'm unaware of in Minnesota?

This quote from a Twins inside source and the bolded text reconfirms the FO SOP: According to Jeremy, the bidding would start with Boras at 3/$21 for a pitcher with shoulder issues and declining velocity, who they already acknowledge is at best, a "lotto ticket". Further depressing this whole scenario, should Suk prove to be "signable" at $21M (which would be the second highest FA Twins signing, ever), this would, in fact be trumpeted by the FO as THE Big Splash of the offseason (ala Correia), certainly not merely the "AAA depth-seeking" that you proffered. Yes, I would question their competence yet again should they go down this path. The Twins have a recent history of casting high-priced players aside, and only reinvesting a smaller percentage of those freed-up dollars back into the club's payroll- with the payroll dropping substantially in both 2012 and 2013. Given the Twins will have freed up only $18-$23M from the 2013 payroll number (depending on what happens with Pelfrey) and forecasting falling revenues in 2014, they would likely only spend enough, in addition to Suk, by getting another retread/bargain bin SP as the secondary signing. Highly unlikely, that in addition to signing Suk, that they will seriously go after another top arm who legitimately projects as top-of-the-rotation potential.

Yeah, and that "legitimate SP prospect" is on track to be a major league reliever in 2018.

The Tigers accommodated us by taking Delmon off our hands, how about them repeating the favor and taking Willingham for Lefty SP Kyle Lobstein in return (both 2013 @ AAA and career Milb K/9 of 8.1- Rule 5 guy I lobbied for the Twins to take instead of Pressly)? Probably would need to provide salary relief, but Lobstein is definitely blocked at the major league level and by superior prospects in the Tigers system. Product of the Rays system who took a big step in 2013 with a change in scenery- will be pitching in the AFL.

Either one too many "Pres-lees" on this roster or I just wasn't aware that Ryan Pressly was multi-talented.....

Selig and Carl were extremely tight. I hosted a radio show in the early 90s and I invited Pohlad to appear on the show, shortly after the 1992 season. He agreed to appear, but only if Bud and White Sox owner, Jerry Reinsdorf, would also be on the show. As expected, Bud did most of the talking for Carl and Jerry. Not much of a "vision" for baseball was presented in the interview- upon query, they had no interest in expanding their brand internationally as other pro leagues like the NBA and NFL were doing, they instead, primarily focused their conversation on getting MLB costs under control (of course, later on Bud sacrilegiously cancelled the 94 World Series, ill-advisely expanded baseball to pay off the collusion penalties- along with adding another round in the playoffs with the addition of the Wild Card, and looked the other way during the steroid scandal in order to resurrect baseball's fortunes after the self-inflicted damage the owners had wrought upon themselves). Only later did I learn of the extent of the skullduggery involved in their takeover of Major League Baseball with the ousting of Fay Vincent on an 18-9 "No Confidence" vote, orchestrated by what was later deemed the "The Great Lakes Gang" ( which in addition to Selig, Pohlad and Reinsdorf, also included Cubs owner, Stanton Cook and Dodgers owner, Peter O'Malley). Bud and Carl had also previously been involved in the Collusion Ruling that ended up costing the owners $280M in civil penalties and punitive damages payable to the Player's Union. It was 10 years on, and Bud and Carl were again at the center of the skullduggery- this time with the addition of one Jeffrey Loria to the inner circle- and this Owners Cabal was again sued, this time by the minority owners of the Expos for racketeering and conspiracy with intent to defraud, for as much as $300M in punitive damages in the Contraction Case (contracting baseball just 8 years after expanding baseball? Nice Vision). Bud was forced to settle in arbitration for an undisclosed sum, thus allowing the Expos to be moved to Washington, and the Twins (Carl stood to be compensated at fair market value in agreement to be contracted), inadvertently, to be saved. Sad but true story.

Great post, may I add: 1) ......"or the lack thereof".... 2)......Don't forget 2 MVP winners in that Metrodome-ensconced talent-laden group.....and a Reliever of the Year winner, besides. 3) ....It's going to ultimately end up in the Pohlad's hands to finally do something about FO accountability, and nobody else. I suspect that the fact that they had little incentive in the deal they cut for Target Field to be held accountable themselves to fulfill their PR promises means they won't have much incentive to hold the FO accountable---as long as the cash flow stays positive. This operation has been pretty much on auto-pilot since Andy McPhail and TK were running the show, anyway.

Uhhh...first they'll have to demonstrate some "mastery" of the level, but second, and most especially.... "consistency".....(right up to the point that they wear their arms out).

They're still only less than 1/3 of the way to where they need to be with the outrights. In a rare moment of eloquence, Bert nailed it when he said what a huge missed opportunity it was for the legion of AAA guys who didn't take better advantage of the Twins' situation and demonstrate that they wanted a long-term MLB gig. Find another group of guys as filler who might be a little hungrier, mixed in with some FAs who demonstrate some leadership qualities and standards of accountability, and then at least we'll have made an attempt at an attitude adjustment to the current country club culture pervading the Twins clubhouse.....something has to be done now to shake things up, drop the tired cliches.....and begin and strike the chords of a new clubhouse meme....before the inevitable arrival of the prospects.

Speaking of "hope prolonging the torment".....a guy turning 29 in 2014 is not a kid.

Agreed. I just hope that the FO doesn't expect him to be the CF throughout the summer- because if so, my fears of a 100-loss season become more confirmed. Presley is a good 4th OF on a bottom 10 team- he is what he is- and I think we can all agree, being a better offensive player than Clete Thomas is the lowest of low bar thresholds.

Once part of a Big Ten school, always part of a Big Ten School. Shouldn't feel any qualms about what you've accomplished, surliness, however comes with the territory- "Twins Territory", that is. 2 Nietzche quotes that are favorites of mine, and additionally are apropos to this thread....Thus Spoke Zarathustra: “Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.” "Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen."

And additionally, one of the founding partners congratulated him for his efforts in a successive post. Again, it's head-scratching to see micro-managing and guessing at what one poster is thinking is "bad", and what another poster is thinking is "good." As an aside, I was appalled, but not surprised or offended, that there was an element amongst some members, managment and moderator-level that expressed the notion that reacting with both physical intimidation and actual violence in response to Carlos Gomez's lunacy was acceptable behavior. Just seems ironic for a place we all seek to be a source for civil, but impassioned debate. Look, as I previously stated, nothing in what JC stated bothered me or offended me one iota- and most of his content I agreed with wholeheartedly. I enjoy impassioned, intelligent debate. "Inflammatory" doesn't bother me. I am bothered a little that the idea that proper and civilly-expressed use of the English language in conveying an idea automatically connotes inflammatory intent and must be immediately censored- while a much clearer inflammatory content based on TD guidelines is not only brushed aside, but congratulated by those seeking to "tone down the rhetoric." I do appreciate the efforts put in by all of you-I've been in communication with a number of you, and I do realize it's painstaking, time-consuming, and your motivations as volunteer moderators to take on this task can only be because it's a labor of love. I think we all pretty much want what you want--the "Goal", as RB so eloquently stated. Thanks for hearing me out and taking the time to address the issue, Glunn and RB.

I would have vastly preferred that May get his 40 innings with the major league club- the sooner a decision is made on his chances for when he can be counted on to being part of the Starting Rotation, the better. As far as Acther and Ibarra go, it's time to find out where they stand as near-future options- parting ways with at least one of the arb-eligible relievers is pending, the best place to determine where they are at and if they are ready to contribute is with the big league club.

So...."apologetics" as a label for how someone feels and expresses his thoughts about the Twins is OK, but "apolgist" is not? Again, confusing to those who cherish the language and the use of it in self-expression. Either way, losing a Big Ten college professor like Shane from regular TD contributors doesn't seem like a step in the right direction.