JB_Iowa

Not angry, just weary.

I am not saying anything bad about Larry Corrigan here -- he is probably a fine scout. But I do question Ryan's constant "back to the future" moves: http://www.examiner.com/article/corrigan-is-first-hire-for-dipoto-s-staff November 1, 2011 For anyone who didn't believe what Jerry DiPoto said about balancing the modern schools of sabermetrics with traditional scouting, the new Angels GM just backed that up by hiring Larry Corrigan on Tuesday as his special assistant. Corrigan, who has spent the past three years as the special assistant to Pitttsburgh Pirates GM Neal Huntington, is as old school as they get. The former scout and college head coach is widely credited with the discovery of current Angels outfielder Torii Hunter back during his days as the Twins' director of scouting. I realize that Corrigan is near the tail end of his career and probably will have a role somewhat like Krivsky. I'd just like to see someone "new school" brought in at the same level of prominence.

If you say that you will always give preference to present staff -- without opening up the positions to outsiders (even for consideration), you actually give a disincentive for performance. Then staff is not competing with the "outside world" but only within their cocoon. There have been changes in staffing but they haven't really opened up the organization to new ideas. Last year: coaching staff changes -- Brunansky "promoted" (no MLB or MiLB coaching experience outside Twins); Cuellar "promoted" (at least he had only been entrenched in the Twins way for about 5 years before the promotion); Steinbach (no MLB or MiLB coaching experience outside Twins). Joe Vavra did have significant experience in the Dodgers org before being hired as hitting coach in 2005 but Gardenhire, Ullger & Anderson have all been with the Twins for about 20 years (or more). Dave St. Peter (Team President) (with Twins since 1990) Terry Ryan (General Manager) (with Twins about 1986) Mike Radcliff (Vice President of Player Personnel) (with Twins since 1987) Rob Antony (Assistant GM) (with Twins since 1987) (interesting interview with Souhan in 2008: Jim Souhan: Antony is living life of his dreams | Star Tribune) Tom Kelly (Special Asst to GM) (with Twins since about 1971) Wayne Krivsky (Special Asst to GM) (back with Twins since 2011 but did spend times with a lot of organizations including the Twins) Mike Herman (Director, Team Travel) (with Twins since 1999) Jack Goin (Manager Major League Admin & Baseball Stats) (with Twins since 2000) Brad Steil (Director of Minor League Operations) (with Twins since about 2000) Joel Lepel (Minor League Field Coordinator) (with Twins since 1989) Kate Townley (Senior Manager, Minor League Administration) (with Twins since 2005) Lizz Downey (Admin. Asst. to Terry Ryan) (hired in January 2013) Deron Johnson (Director of Scouting) (with Twins since 1994) Vern Followell (Pro Scouting Coordinator) (with Twins since 1989) Amanda Daley (Senior Manager, Scouting & International Administration) (??????) Rafael Yanez (Administrative Assistant to Scouting) (also serves as a translator) (????) Dave Preumer (Head Trainer) (with Twins since 1994) Tony Leo (Asst Trainer) (with Twins since 1997) Lanning Tucker (Asst Trainer) (with Twins since 1992) I'm not going to go through all the positions in PR, Finance, etc. but I'm guessing you will see a very similar pattern. Unfortunately I don't know where to find a list of scouts. The few "new hires" we see are almost all very young and in their first jobs. There is a tendency to hire as interns and then eventually promote into top management. While that is not entirely bad, it means that they SELDOM bring in outside experience from the baseball world (Krivsky, Vavra & Cuellar seemingly being the only exceptions). Most of the top personnel go back to the same time frame as Terry Ryan -- late 80's. It is no wonder to me that there is "group think" and I think that the hire dates don't lie. Fresh talent, ideas and innovation are desperately needed. Edit: Just realized I forgot Molitor. He definitely has experience outside Twins but he is also indoctrinated in the "Twins way".

This is so well-written and such a wonderful story that it is hard to comment. Thanks for sharing.

The problem comes in when you seemingly do it almost 100% of the time.

To me it comes down to blending in new personalities -- whether it be players through trades and free agency or front-office staff through new hires from outside the organization. Not wholesale changes but a willingness to blend in new talent and ideas. I'm dealing with the same issues in another part of my life right now. A governmental body where its members have become long-term and entrenched. They have developed an arrogance about what they are doing that causes them to no longer discuss anything publicly, to have votes that are always 5-0, to bully anyone in the public who dares to question any behavior. And you know what, the public has just basically shut down because fighting it gets so difficult. To me it appears that the Twins' group think is so deeply entrenched that it would take a series of new hires for any of their ideas or philosophies to begin to percolate. Of course people should feel like they have the chance to move up in an organization -- but there should also be some among them who desire to grow enough to be hired elsewhere as well. We don't see that. We don't see new hires in. But we also don't see much of people leaving for better positions elsewhere. This has gone beyond stability into a slow death.

Albert Pujols had a hand in the Cardinals' Series berth. | SportsonEarth.com : Will Leitch Article I found this article interesting. Particularly how the Cards started planning early for a big payday for Albert and concentrating on the farm. Is this partially where the Twins fell apart? Did they fail to have a strategy for the Mauer "big payday" or was it simply that Target Field WAS the strategy? My personal feeling has always been that the organization got a bit complacent with the looming advent of TF. That they stopped doing the little things well and focusing on things that had made them successful. Don't get me wrong, draft position and the farm system were also a part of that but I just wonder whether some of their own complacency didn't do them in.

Yes. I was not separating comments from articles and I probably should have done so. Parker tends to use a few more stats than most of the other writers -- but he is also meticulous about his explanations (and I tend to "learn" the most from his articles in terms of understanding the game itself or understanding specifics about a batter's stance & swing or a pitcher's motion, etc.). I have also enjoyed this thread thoroughly and hope we see more "newbies" (so to speak) posting their stories and thoughts. Thanks to everyone who has posted here.

My big problem with all of this is not Paul Molitor himself, it is the fact that the Twins are wholly adverse to bringing in someone from outside the organization (and yes, I would have liked the person to be Latin and able to relate to some of the younger players of their own culture). When you never bring in "outside talent", you really limit challenges to your way of thinking -- you often limit new ideas, new approaches, innovation. I realize this is just a coaches position and frankly, Paul Molitor may be the best person to fill it. But I am so discouraged by the fact that the organization fails to bring in new people at leadership positions. Some (maybe most) promotion from within is a good thing but that needs to be balanced with outside hiring as well. I fear that this organization is "comfort zoning" itself into the depths (really comfort zoning themselves into being mired in the depths because they are pretty much already there).

On the "fit" question, I suppose it could be argued that they didn't want a "manager in waiting" when Gardenhire was on the last year of his contract. Perhaps now that Gardenhire is back on a 2-year agreement, they don't see it as the same issue. Just speculating.

Notebook: GM Ryan's 'interim' tag removed; Paul Molitor 'not a fit' - Minnesota Twins news | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Twins

It would seem to me that they could recognize that the quality of their product this year was abysmal and that they had a cost savings given actual payroll versus their "52%". By using those cost savings up front, it would reduce any amount that might need to be spread out over the next few years.

Another opportunity to add a Spanish-speaking coach who might relate to some of the up and coming players down the drain. The old boys club lives on (unfortunately their results don't thrive.)

Radke is in the Twins hall of fame. Minnesota Twins Hall of Famers | twinsbaseball.com: History Retiring his number is another consideration altogether. I'm not sold on it but I'm not totally opposed either. (Seems like the two concepts were getting confused somewhere up above).

I'm the same age as Terry Ryan. I remember "lunch bars" -- 3 cents!

Despite roster turnover and reliance on youth, St. Louis Cadinals again find themselves in World Series - MLB News | FOX Sports on MSN Interesting take on this question. Especially the player turnover.

For me it comes down to a question that I'm not in the position to judge -- Does he have the desire to be the anchor of a pitching staff? He has the age and experience I'm looking for. He has been at the 200 innings/year mark consistently. If the Twins offer a premium for a 2 year deal (or 2 year with club option), does he want to be in Minnesota? does he want to prove himself? does he want to be the anchor of a young pitching staff? I can't see what's in his heart. And for me the mental and personality factors on this one are really the determining factors because this team needs someone to lead the pitching staff.

I worry that even if the Twins are the high bidder on Tanaka, the Twins do not have other factors in place to maximize his success. Looking back, when Kuroda went to the Dodgers, he was 33 years old, the Dodgers closer was Takashi Saito and Kuroda was not expected to anchor the rotation. The Dodgers also had Lowe & Billingsley and 20-year-old Clayton Kershaw as well as Brad Penny. When Darvish went to the Rangers, they not only had the guru in charge (Nolan Ryan), they also had Matt Harrison and Derek Holland (plus Scott Feldman, Colby Lewis & Ryan Dempster). They also had Yoshinori Tateyama already in their system (and having made his major league debut). Tanaka would pretty much be expected to anchor the Twins rotation plus would be the only Japanese player on the team at this point. Would that really maximize his possibility of success? Is he the right fit for the Twins? Are the Twins the right fit for him?

Always feel free to join me in saying something "stupid", I do it quite often. I just cannot get into the advanced stats that people like to throw around. I can learn from them but I will never really absorb them. But there is room for a lot of different perspectives so I hope you'll post from time to time. (And, if you just want to post for fun, go into the game chats on occasion once the season starts again. ) The mods are really working to clamp down on some of the things that you complain about (a little too much for me sometimes because it stops the flow of the thread but it does seem to have paid off in a little more civility). And I agree that the site has gotten slow although to add to that, it seems a little more sporadic to me and not necessarily when people are posting a lot so I don't get it.

Thanks Oxtung. Good stuff. I had actually stayed with Berardino until he hit SIERA, then it got too much for me. There's a reason I took stats for social science majors rather than the harder version.

I loved Leyland's little shake-up of the line-up (moving Jackson down one and everyone else up one). I especially love his comment "got to churn the butter." Got me thinking about whether Gardenhire would have made a similar move. He always seems so set on everybody being in their comfort zone.

I've pretty much got ignoring announcers down ... I do it all the time with Dick/Bert. But chief is right, the baseball is fantastic.

I have no problem with your approach ... I just don't think there's any way in H E double toothpicks that it happens.

Since the article title is "seeking rotation help for the 2nd straight season" not necessarily impale Terry Ryan, is there anyone on that free agent list that has the potential to provide what Pavano did in 2009-2010? Innings eater, decent stuff, been through the abyss and back, somewhat charismatic with an ability to lead the staff? I've been thinking about this with regard to young pitchers and the need for them to have some veteran leadership in the starting staff (and no, I don't really think this is Correia). I've been looking through the Free Agent lists but that's a lot of sorting out to do. It wasn't that Pavano was a #1 but he was a lot better than anything we've seen recently and I have a gut feeling that he made the other pitchers around him better -- definitely solid in 2010 until the injuries of 2011. I'd be interested in any thoughts anyone might have about someone comparable available through either free agency or trade.

If we knew that, we'd know the complete answer to how did the Twins go from 269-219 in 2008-2010 to 195-291 in 2011-2013. I honestly believe that full treatises could be written on the subject. For now I'll just blame it on the Black Spruce curse .... or the revenge of the Metrodome.