JB_Iowa

As for the question itself, I find it interesting. I, too, wouldn't trade Mauer for Kinsler or Fielder but trading Mauer for one or more other players is not inconceivable to me.

To me it depends on if they are really twins. If they are really twins, then they should get to use the identifier. They do appear "bella". And capitalization be d*mned.

Where is that "LIKE" button when you need it?

Honestly I do feel like I'm hearing a broken record here. I actually agree that its too early but I have a hard time forgetting last season and a lot of optimism around here about what would be spent on starting pitching. While the Twins will not be on my "Thanksgiving Thankfulness" list, there are lots of other things there (including TD). Best to concentrate on them and on having a blessed, joyful Christmas (or whatever you may individually celebrate). There'll be plenty of time in January and later to be depressed -- or pleasantly surprised -- by the Twins.

I take everything Seth says with a box of salt, too. (And that is not being mean but of all the Twins Daily writers, I find Seth to be one of the most -- if not the most -- bullish on this team. Even over the last 3 years. He has been optimistic even in the midst of despair. That's his right but I'm not going to buy into it). Look, I like where the Twins farm system is at. But prospects are just that, prospects. I hope the Twins are contenders in 2015. But even if they are, nothing TR has done to date gives me any hope that he would take the necessary risks to move them from division contenders to a team that could actually win in the playoffs. Been burned too many times by hopefulness regarding this team. I would prefer to be pleasantly surprised rather than to have my hopes dashed once again.

Re: Berardino Tweets. I've been interviewed enough to know that things don't always come out of your mouth exactly the way you want them to. I also know that reporters aren't always precise in what they relate you've said. So I'm pointing this one out primarily for amusement, not criticism: Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino 12h TR: "We need to have Willingham and Doumit bounce back for sure. Diamond needs to bounce back. I’m counting on that. You can’t rely on it." How can you count on something but not rely on it?

From Twitter: Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino 12h TR says he told Duensing and Swarzak to "be prepared to do both" start and relieve in 2014 He actually doesn't mention Swarzak and Duensing in his Twins Now Blog - that's more about Kris Johnson: () Ryan said Johnson, a former teammate of Mike Pelfrey’s at Wichita State, throws 90-92 mph with a curve, slider and change. “He’s a little bit of a rich man’s (Scott) Diamond when it comes to stuff,” Ryan said. “He’s a little bit bigger. His stuff is maybe a tick better. Now it’s a matter of whether he’s respond.” Ryan said the hope is that Johnson, 29, will make the Twins’ big-league club in 2014. “Why not?” Ryan said. “We’ve got to try something.” http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2013/11/20/minnesota-twinsights-terry-ryan-admits-to-issues-with-eddie-rosario/ And from the same post, for your general amusement: () Ryan was asked about his sales pitch in luring free agents.“We’ve got openings,” he said. “We’ve got a bunch of guys in pencil. We don’t have a lot of guys in ink here.” And how is that going? “Some people may not want to play in the state of Minnesota,” he said. “Pitchers should want to come here. We all know that. We’ve got some payroll. We’ve also got a pretty good reputation. We’ll take our chances.” and: () Perkins said would be more than happy to make recruiting calls for the Twins as they try to rebuild their starting rotation, but added he is kept in the dark just like the rest of us. “The hardest part is nothing really gets out about who we’re trying to get,” he said. “If somebody asked me to put in a good word, I would. If I was asked to help, I certainly would. They keep things pretty close to the vest. I end up following it like everyone else does. Information is tough to come by.”

I'm an unashamed pessimist about the management of this team at this point. I find it helpful to take "vacations" from this board and from Twins news. Honestly, reading it every day is about enough to send a person out on a ledge. You have to take it all with a box (forget a grain) of salt. And you really do have to start singing "Que Sera Sera" -- what will be, will be (where is Doris Day when you need her?). Because other than boycotting Twins games & merchandise, there isn't a heck of a lot you can do. (P.S. Did I put enough cliches in there?)

I'm not OldGoat but I think its the "involving a really good pitcher and free agency" part of his/her statement that is key here. It's not competence or apathy -- its personal philosophy and conservatism. Many of us have a hard time believing that TR is willing to part with the $$$ or years necessary to acquire a really good pitcher via the free agent route. And for those of us that feel that way, I'm pretty sure we'll have to see it to believe it.

From a team's standpoint, I really like that provision. Of course, the player has to trust that if he is healthy, the team will start him. And 7 starts isn't that high a barricade. Makes me wonder if they think that there is something that may require surgery or if the doctors just can't tell.

I'm not so sure about that when it comes to St. Peter & Pohlad (I'll concede the point on Ryan). We didn't hear many rumors about the Twins changing some of their practices and being aggressive in free agency, etc. until after there started being a lot more empty seats in the stadium. And call me a cynic, but I think the timing of Pohlad's statements about money to spend (Sept. 13) had a lot to do with then-upcoming season renewals.

I'm okay w/2 years and a team option even if the buyout has to be a little more hefty than the Twins usually prefer (up to $4m or $5m if necessary) . But I'm really leary of committing for the third year.

Welcome to TD. Many of us share many of your frustrations. As you go through other threads you'll be able to address many of your concerns individually. I'm not going to address them now because I feel like we've hashed and re-hashed most of them. At this point in time, I'm just sitting back and waiting to see if TR can "change his stripes" and come through on some of the rumors we're hearing about being aggressive in free agency, etc. I refuse to get my hopes up until I see the results .... until then, it is just a lot of hot air blowing from the hot stove.

I want to see a little vocal leadership added but it would be ludicrous to try to go back to the future with more than 1 or 2 of the veterans who've been mentioned (and it would also depend on what else might be added from outside former Twins).

We all have to see how this plays out and if "the Tiger really can change his stripes" (i.e. whether Terry Ryan can make himself spend money in free agency or trade prospects). One of the best things I've seen this off-season are the repeated rumors that the Twins are trying to "shake up the locker room". As I recall, it started with Gardenhire's comment in the October 1 conference call with season ticket holders when, according to Howard Sinker: "Fan tells Gardy his team lacks clubhouse leader. Gardy: Just because you're a veteran doesn't mean you're a leader. We're in search of that." Then there are the rumors about the Twins being open to both Garza and Pierzynski -- both of whom are not in the quiet, "nice guy" mold the Twins have favored recently. I really hope that LEN3 has it right that the Twins are looking to bring one or more different personality types onto this club. Last year this team often seemed like dead men walking.

Apparently Perk could have consulted on this! Dustin Morse ‏@Twins_morsecode 3h Is there anything this guy can't do? @glen_perkins with the surprise sermon at church today. Nice job #PastorPerk pic.twitter.com/VQpJwAdEi3

The thing that boggles my mind is that Garza will only be 30 in a week or so. It's easy to forget how young he was when he was first in a Twins uniform. Honestly, without looking it up, I would have said he was 34 or so. And one more thing, I was going to bump the "Target Field Library Thread" but decided just to add this here. If there is anything I'm encouraged about this off-season, its the repeated rumors that the Twins are looking to change the clubhouse atmosphere. Thank Heavens!!

Dream on Dream on Dream on Dream until your dreams come true Dream on Dream on Dream on Dream until your dreams come true Dream on Dream on Dream on Dream on Dream on Dream on Dream on

LIKE. But does it mean you don't buy the beer? And doesn't this happen every Friday night?

I'm not sure that you are right about the past but even if you are, I'm not sure that you can draw any conclusions from it at this point. A jump from 95 losses for 3 consecutive years to near .500 would be a huge jump in the possibility of actually seeing the Twins win on any given day. That, together with the hope provided by the farm system, the desire by many fans to see the Twins actually be competitive in the free agent market AND a ballpark that still has a bit of the "new & shiny" attached is very different from any small improvements they may have seen in the Metrodome days. Also, at this point, fans are still close enough to "winning seasons" to remember them -- the longer it goes on with a desolate (more than 90 loss) record, the harder that will get to remember. So there is a premium on showing significant improvement quickly and I have a lot of faith that if they do so, it will put b*tts in the seats and help stabilize their sliding TV ratings.

Found the following interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/15/sports/baseball/dispute-jeopardizes-new-posting-system-for-japanese-players.html?ref=sports&_r=1& I'm sure it will eventually be put back together without the fee impacting the luxury tax but its always fun to read about tensions between the "haves" and "have nots". Also, if they get the offer put back together, maybe it puts a little more pressure on the Japanese to act quickly.

I'm sure they could have started higher but they needed to gauge what was more important to Mauer -- years or dollars. According to the Forbes article, the Twins made the 1st offer (which would be logical). $18 million a year wasn't insulting. 5 years may have been somewhat insulting but it was a reasonable length. They had to test his response to see where Joe & his agent were coming from. It doesn't look to me like the Mauer team was insulted but it'll be interesting to read about their thought processes when Shapiro's book comes out. Like I said, when I made the first post on this thread, I started to say things about Twins low-ball offer but after I thought about it, I edited it out before any other response after I did the $18m/year math. I just don't see $18m/year as an insult so then it comes down to the number of years. There is no use negotiating against yourself. And obviously the Twins moved quite a bit.

My first reaction (and I had this in my post but pulled it out when I edited) was that it was incredibly lowball as well. But it is really only lowball in terms of total value. It was still $18 million a year and while they didn't quite "meet in the middle" on the annual salary, it wasn't that far off. $18m - $23m - $27m And the years ended up at 5 - 8 - 9 so again, Shapiro "won". But you have to think that the Twins knew they were going to have to stretch it out more than they did with their initial offer. It'll be interesting to read more about Shapiro's strategy but also to see if he comments at all on what the Twins' strategy appeared to be. I'm also going to be interested to see what he says about the role the media played -- as well as the role of opening Target Field.

I'm assuming that by "contributed to" you define it as "actually played in" but at this point, and with the condition of the Twins staff, there is another contribution that could be far more valuable. That is mentoring young pitchers. When you read stories about playoff teams -- particularly thinking of specific comments from Tigers and Rays pitchers but there were others as well -- they often talk about how important it was to learn from a teammate (or former teammate). That's clearly true in terms of the way Scherzer and Fister and Porcello talk about Verlander. I also remember reading it about David Price and James Shields and Edwin Jackson. There is something to be learned from a good, veteran pitcher that can't be learned from a pitching coach. It seems to be primarily in how the player conducts himself. To me, that type of mentoring (even if you don't call it that) can have long-lasting effects that DO "contribute" to a playoff run or world series -- even if the player is no longer on the team.

Interesting column by Rand on Ron Shapiro's forthcoming book (which looks even more interesting). Column at: http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/231930221.html According to new details of the negotations, addressed at length in agent Ron Shapiro's upcoming book and chronicled to some degree by Forbes -- Shapiro believed Mauer would be worth 10 years and $300 million on the open market. Mauer, however, wanted to stay in Minnesota. As such, per Forbes: The Twins offered Mauer a 5-year, $90 million contract. Shapiro countered with a demand of 9-years and $243 million ($27 million per year on average). We'll never know if he'd have gotten those 10 years/$30 million. It'll be interesting to see what techniques and arguments Shapiro used to get the Twins into the real world. Rand also poses the following at the end: After reading all this, we can't help but wonder -- particularly in light of Mauer's recent position switch to first base -- what the perception would be if Shapiro had snagged a $300 million deal with another club or got everything he wanted with the Twins ... or conversely, how a 5-year deal vs. the 8-year deal ultimately signed might be viewed by Twins fans. I think the 5-year deal would have been greeted more favorably even if it was for more money per year. As I recall, a lot of reservations had to do with length of contract. But it is interesting to me that Mauer offered what they saw as a hometown discount on BOTH money and years.