DaveW

He won't win. Should finish top 5 but prob wont.

Funny, no mention of his .671 OP 81OPS+ or his .282 OBP. I like Hardy and he is obviously is better then anything the Twins have put out at SS the past two years, but I am not so sure that I would want him here currently on his 3 year 21 mil contract.

Twins will be in the top 12 in many publications next year. They added back a healthy Gibson, Berrios, Buxton and guys like Hicks, Rosario and Arcia all took steps forward. Plus they have a few guys sneaking up the charts like Kepler, Jones etc. Kab is right, they didn't really have anyone fall off the map and the only guys who graduated weren't really top 10 guys anyways (Parmelee was close though)

Pig hit it on the head, even the folks I know who usually vote republican are refusing to vote for Romney, he will never pick up the independent vote (along with the women's vote, latino vote, black vote, under 35 vote etc) The republicans need to figure out eventually that they can't just keep appealing to the middle american white male.

This is a playoff caliber defense, and you are right they have the studs on offense to keep it going as well. At this point our biggest threat is the injury bug, as good as the starters are we just don't have any depth really anywhere on the roster (other then DL maybe) If one of Allen, Greenway, Harvin, Peterson, Kahlil or even Ponder gets hurt this team suddenly looks very .500 again.

I understand your point about Hicks/Arcia, but I disagree, to me both of those guys have much higher upsides then Rosario, Arcia with his bat and Hicks all around. I know we are all giddy about Rosario being the solution at 2B, but he is still far away from the majors and it still isn't written in stone that he will stick to 2B, wasn't it said that one of the reasons why they moved him from the OF is that they weren't sure his bat would play out there? That is a bit of a warning sign, no? I get not wanting to trade a guy who has potential at MI, but keep in mind we do have a few other decent MI prospects these days as well in Goodrum and Levi Michael (Dozier still has a bit of potenital as well IMO) All this to say basically, I would gladly give up Rosario before any of Arcia/Hicks etc. I'm pretty sure that if Johnson was on our roster opening day he would be eligible for the extra pick, I think it only applies to players traded in season, but I could be wrong. Keep in mind, there is no reason why they couldn't discuss an extension with him prior to the trade going through, if they can't get it done before the trade they can at least get a good sense of what it would cost and get it done prior to the season.

I don't think anyone is doing it intentionally, just automatically cap it at 3 levels or whatever. I'd have to go write a plug-in to cap embedded quotes. If there was a setting to do it, I would have done it long ago. Either people can monitor their own posts or we can go back to one quote per post. Those are the options. well...better get to work Just FYI: it's near impossible to delete the quotes on an iphone/ipad, its not as cumbersome on a computer but still a pain.

And the twins aren't? The Marlins are going to go through a complete rebuilding effort, all indications are the Twins will not, otherwise why bring back Gardy/Anderson for one more year? Also keep in mind, Marlins fans are apathetic no matter what, if the Twins want to keep butts in the seats at Target Field they realize they need to turn things around sooner then later. I'm not saying gut the entire farm system for a win now campaign, but this team needs top of the rotation pitching now and moving forward. There are three ways to get that. 1. Overspend in free agency- Probably not the best idea, since you will also often times lose a draft pick and end up bidding against Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels etc. 2. Draft/Bring up through your system- Other then Berrios the Twins don't have a true "ace" or "ace-lite" pitcher in the minors at this point, and he is at least 3-4 years away. I like Gibson as a #2 but you need more than that, everyone else projects as a#3-#5. 3. Trade for one- A guy like Shields I still maintain is going to cost significantly more then Johnson and more then the Twins will want to give up. So trading Rosario sucks, but if you can get 4-5 years of Josh Johnson back for it I think you have to consider making that move, otherwise the Twins will literally go into 2013 with a #3 type pitcher as their ace.

He was coming off a major arm injury this year, it wasn't exactly shocking that he didn't reach 200 IP, however you act like he is only starting 20 games a year for 120 IP, he has come pretty close to 200 IP (or even more) in his last 3 healthy years. (3 of the past 4 years) Also, I never have once advocated just picking him up from one year, if you would go back and read I have said they should trade for him and work out a contract extension. If he doesn't want to do the contract extension then I would pull Rosario from the deal and the deal would probably fall apart. Yes, sometimes it sucks giving up prospects, but I would gladly trade a guy like Rosario for 5 years of an ace like pitcher in Josh Johnson, we complain that we haven't had a legit MI in a long time, well we haven't exactly had a lot of aces in the past 20 years as well, I can only count one (Johan) unless you want to claim Liriano was an "ace" for that half year before he got injured. The reason I bring up Rosario is because you would be trading him at his high point as a prospect, it still isn't a 100% that he is even able to stick at 2B and he still has several steps to go. As far as the "need high level pitching in return" that really is irrelevant because we don't know what the Marlins want in return. The two main pieces the Twins got back for Santana were a low level pitcher in Guerra and a CF. Humber and Mulvey were both "higher level" but both projected to be #5's even at the time, I'm sure if the Marlins really wanted a guy like that they could pry loose someone from the Twins organization.

Again, I would rather have Shields then Johnson, the reason I am advocating Johnson is because the price will be significantly cheaper. We aren't getting Shields for Span, that deal makes zero sense for the Rays. Span could potentially be a part of it, but it will be Span+ significant prospect(s). Ditto with Hanson.

I don't think anyone is doing it intentionally, just automatically cap it at 3 levels or whatever.

It doesn't matter that the two pitchers they got were in AA, they just weren't very good prospects (no where near the top 100 and IIRC one wasn't even in the Angels top ten, which was a weak ass system anyways), Segura was a nice prospect (#55) right where Rosario will most likely be! So again, Rosario+one top ten prospect in system+C/C+ prospect is basically the exact same package the Cardinals gave up. If the Marlins are ONLY looking for pitching back then yeah, we are prob in trouble, but nothing has been said of their demands as of yet, you gotta look at it as a value standpoint not a "Well X team traded two AA pitchers for Y player" every team is different.

Exactly. Like I said earlier, it took Hanley to get Josh Beckett moved. I would almost guarantee it takes Sano to get Johnson moved. The Marlins had huge reported offers this summer and didn't move him, so I doubt they'll move him without a big return. It took Gomez and Humber to get Johan... DING DING DING! And Johan had a long term contract in place before they accepted the trade AND Johan was the best pitcher in all of baseball. 2 prospects in BA's top 52, yet another in the top 100, and another in the Mets top 10 for Baseball America. Yep, not valuable prospects at all! Johan was also the best pitcher in the game and was basically coming off 3 straight Cy Young seasons, the Mets had a contract in place with him. I like Johnson, but he is nowhere near that caliber, so one can assume it won't take 2 top 50 and 1 top 100. 1 top 50 (Rosario) along with a guy in the top ten of the twins prospects along with a C+ prospect should be enough to get it done. Of course the Marlins were asking a high price this season, they had no reason not to (just like the Twins did with Span/Willingham/Morneau) that doesn't mean the price doesn't come down, especially heading into a walk season.

Dont remind me....only the twins.... Exactly. Like I said earlier, it took Hanley to get Josh Beckett moved. I would almost guarantee it takes Sano to get Johnson moved. The Marlins had huge reported offers this summer and didn't move him, so I doubt they'll move him without a big return. It took Gomez and Humber to get Johan... dont remind me...only the twins.... You act like Gomez is the only prospect to never work out, anyone remember the centerpiece of that Sabathia deal? LaPorta...think the Brewers are missing him so much?

Exactly. Like I said earlier, it took Hanley to get Josh Beckett moved. I would almost guarantee it takes Sano to get Johnson moved. The Marlins had huge reported offers this summer and didn't move him, so I doubt they'll move him without a big return. It took Gomez and Humber to get Johan... DING DING DING! And Johan had a long term contract in place before they accepted the trade AND Johan was the best pitcher in all of baseball.

Swarzak. Has. No. Value.

That trade was several years ago, the way teams trade prospects has changed quite a bit, just look at the Grienke etc moves.

Given his health history, it's equally likely he has no value at the deadline. Equally as likely? Give me a god damn break. Does he have the potential to get injured? Sure, but not let's act like it is some forgone conclusion or anything even close to that: Observe: 2009: 207 IP 2010: 183.2 IP 2011:60.1 IP 2012:191.1 P Is JJ not getting all of his starts per year or is he a less than 6 innings a game pitcher? 32-34 starts a year should get the pitcher 220 innings? 2010 he had 28 starts and 31 this year. You say he is an ace yet expect that he will sigh for number two money at a less than ideal contract length and money for him. You expect the Marlins to trade for him for a low level high ceiling prospect and throw ins. For the money that would still be about 15% of the payroll you would need a spot starter and a pitcher to get you through the seventh along with your set up man and closer. That sounds like a trade that will not happen, a signing that will not happen and a need for a very good bullpen. He has Ace potential, but his injury issues (which sort of limits his true max dollar potential) I'm not sure why he wouldn't think about taking a 4 year 75 mil extension, heck, even if you have to up it to 5/90 I think the Twins should do it. The guys getting 100 mil deals are the ones who have stayed healthy over the past 3-4 years. He did make it 7+ IP in 13 of his starts last year, obviously you would want more than that but some of that could be him shaking off rust (he struggled early out of the gate) The Marlins would trade him for a prospect package, look at what Greinke and other top pitchers brought back recently, teams aren't willing to give up a ton to get pitchers on one year contracts these days, Rosario is a top 50 prospect, and you can add in a couple other prospects as well (someone in the 8-10 range and someone in the 15-20 range) The Marlins would definitely consider pulling the trigger on that.

Given his health history, it's equally likely he has no value at the deadline. Equally as likely? Give me a god damn break. Does he have the potential to get injured? Sure, but not let's act like it is some forgone conclusion or anything even close to that: Observe: 2009: 207 IP 2010: 183.2 IP 2011:60.1 IP 2012:191.1 P Is JJ not getting all of his starts per year or is he a less than 6 innings a game pitcher? 32-34 starts a year should get the pitcher 220 innings? 2010 he had 28 starts and 31 this year.

We are Vikings fans, we are always waiting for the 2nd shoe to drop

no Sano is top 20 territory. A guy like Rosario is top 50 territory, also as recent history has shown us, teams are much less likely to trade top prospect these days. Though Shields will command at least 2 very good prospects, Johnson may be a bit cheaper prospect wise.

Given his health history, it's equally likely he has no value at the deadline. Equally as likely? Give me a god damn break. Does he have the potential to get injured? Sure, but not let's act like it is some forgone conclusion or anything even close to that: Observe: 2009: 207 IP 2010: 183.2 IP 2011:60.1 IP 2012:191.1 P

Johnson is due 13.75 million, and he isn't a "good" pitcher he is an ace. You argue you would rather have 3 good pitchers instead of Johnson, please let me know which 3 pitchers you are going to get for $13 million. Joe Saunders does suck, I want nothing to do with a Joe Saunders on this staff. Lastly, as I mentioned, you trade for Johnson and try to sign him to a 4 year extension while his value isn't at his peak. Perhaps he would be willing to give a bit of a discount (not a ton) to come back to Minnesota. Absolute worst case scenario is that he walks at the end of the year and you end up with draft pick compensation. My ideal beginning to the off-season: Trade Span for some high upside pitching in the minors. (Or if you can get a nice SS like Andrus or something, think about that as well, even though Andrus isn't getting any cheaper...) Trade Rosario+ C prospect or two for Josh Johnson. Sign Johnson to 4 year, 70-75 million extension. Sign Scott Baker to 1 year, 3 mil base (3 more million in incentives) Starting rotation: Johnson Baker Diamond Gibson Hendriks At this point the Twins would still have quite a bit more money to play with. (+13.75 mil to Johnson, +3 mil to Baker, -4.75 mil Span, -3 mil Nishi) heading into the off-season the Twins were looking at the very minimum of 20 million to spend, more then likely 25+ million. At this point you would still have at least another 10-11 million to spend if you want to bring in another "good" SP or find some INF help.

Funny, no mention of the 49ers who put up 45 points against a Bills team that just put in 100+ mil into their defense this off-season. Also no mention of the Lions, who aren't great but have a high powered offense. Tenn sucks, but its still an amazing feat that they made it past the Vikings 45 zero times until a late drive when the game was already out of hand. The Vikes D have completely dominated these last 3 games, I'm not sure what more you could ask from them. The D-Line is stout, the LB group has improved and the secondary actually looks like an NFL caliber secondary for the first time in what feels like forever. Will they struggle potentially against Aaron Rogers? Duh, who doesn't struggle against him. Luckily for us GB's defense is awful as is there o line, so as long as the Vikes Defense puts pressure on him and Ponder and co. limit turnovers there is zero reason why the Vikings can't compete and win at least one game against the Packers.

Or you could trade for them with the intention to lock them up long term. It really is the best option as the Twins don't have an "ace" in the system, and they don't have the capabilities to trade for some young stud pitcher.