DaveW

Chavez has a 845 OPS (125 OPS+) this year and has a career .818 OPS. That is washed up?

Just realized he might be the perfect guy to bring in on a one year deal, he plays 3B and hits left handed, perhaps he could be insurance/platoon partner for Plouffe against tough righties? I'd have to imagine he would cost less than Jamey Caroll to bring in. Then again, if he ends up with a good night tonight I could see the Yankees keeping him around as A-Rod insurance next year. Maybe 1 year, 1.5-2 mil? He doesn't solve the MI issues obviously, but does give us some nice insurance at 3B and a solid bat off the bench.

Yeah thats true, but I can't see it being much more than 5 million. He really killed his value by struggling for the Sox down the stretch. I'd just we rather bring in Liriano then the next Ramon Ortiz, Hernandez, Marquis etc etc I'm not sure I would give him 5 million though, maybe 1 year 3 million that goes up to 5 million if he pitches 180 IP

Like the 49ers? As long as this team has Peterson and Harvin on the field they will be able to put up points. It would be nice if one of the other WR/TE's would step up a bit though, Simpson looks like he has promise but is injured apparently?

The FO deserves plenty of blame for a number of things, how they handled the Thome "trade" is not one of them.

Would you think about bringing him back on a 1 year, 2-3 mil (+incentives) deal?

I think Jackson will end up costing to much, he is a solid pitcher, but a lot like Liriano in he never seems to be able to harness his natural talent.

Exactly! Nothing to lose, and he could bring some much needed veteran presence and leadership. Did you hear about what he did for the Nationals before yesterdays game? He kept everyone loose and kept them focused, he ended up reading a speech by Teddy ****in Roosevelt, genius! We need more of that leadership in the clubhouse.

I was surprised that some of them were actually coming from the BYTO crowd.

The point was the Twins cannot afford to had a player making that kind of money hurt and not playing. Johnnson's career is not about playing a full season. Can I make it any simpler for you. By innings pitched per year with starts per year, Johnson does not rate that kind of money from an organization like the Twins. I won't clutter things up with examples of how this works because it only seems to confuse you. Didn't the twins give 184 million a couple year ago to a guy who had "injury issues"?? Also they gave a 3 year contract to Pavano as well, who has had a few injury issues of his Also you aren't confusing me at all, champ. Keep trying to make me out to be the simpleton who doesn't understand baseball...it won't end well for ya. Yes in 2011 he was hurt, but in the 3 years surrounding that he averaged over 190 IP, which actually is quite a bit more then ANY pitcher pitched for our 2012 Twins You mention the problems in the Twins contracts with players with injury history and still can't see giving that large of contract? It won't end well for me? ??? Threatning people? I never said that Johnson would be the "typical" Twins signing, in fact he would go against the grain quite a bit, which would actually be a good thing. Give me the high risk high reward signing of Josh Johnson rather then paying close to the same amount for the low risk low reward Shawn Marcum or the like. You were the one who said the Twins wouldn't give out a big contract to a player with injury history, I provided two examples of players they did give multi year deals to that had significant injury histories. In 3 of the past 4 years he pitched either 200 IP or very close to that, yes, he isn't going to give you every start every year but as long as he gives you 28-30 I would certainly live with that, again give me the high risk, high reward.

Typical Dave decompensation rant. Once proven incorrect and unable to sway just by overly repeating the same incorrect argument, he'll decompensate to cursing and then threatening. Lovely. Sigh, you bore me. I wasn't threatening him at all.

The point was the Twins cannot afford to had a player making that kind of money hurt and not playing. Johnnson's career is not about playing a full season. Can I make it any simpler for you. By innings pitched per year with starts per year, Johnson does not rate that kind of money from an organization like the Twins. I won't clutter things up with examples of how this works because it only seems to confuse you. Didn't the twins give 184 million a couple year ago to a guy who had "injury issues"?? Also they gave a 3 year contract to Pavano as well, who has had a few injury issues of his own Also you aren't confusing me at all, champ. Keep trying to make me out to be the simpleton who doesn't understand baseball...it won't end well for ya. Yes in 2011 he was hurt, but in the 3 years surrounding that he averaged over 190 IP, which actually is quite a bit more then ANY pitcher pitched for our 2012 Twins

95% chance he ends up back in Boston, I like Ross but we shouldn't be handing out any multi year deals to OF. I'd however be interested in torii hunter on a one year deal if span/Willingham are traded.

He was dealing with some serious injury issues, he apparently will be back to 100% by opening day 2013. [TABLE=class: sortable stats_table] [TR=class: hl] [TD=align: right]281[/TD] [TD=align: right].356[/TD] [TD=align: right].448[/TD] [TD=align: right].803[/TD] [TD=align: right]106 OPS+ 67 HRs and excellent defense at 2B, 3B, LF, RF and serviceable defense at SS and CF[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] You're using 2007-2009 stats? And those 67 homeruns are 2006-2009. :th_alc:I can't believe you actually took time to look that up.

He was dealing with some serious injury issues, he apparently will be back to 100% by opening day 2013. Last three full seasons [TABLE=class: sortable stats_table] [TR=class: hl] [TD=align: right]281[/TD] [TD=align: right].356[/TD] [TD=align: right].448[/TD] [TD=align: right].803[/TD] [TD=align: right]106 OPS+ 67 HRs and excellent defense at 2B, 3B, LF, RF and serviceable defense at SS and CF [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

Feel free to name a better 2B/SS option who also can swing a big bat. Protip: you can't.

Totally worth a minor league contract IMO. He is the perfect fit for this team heading into 2013 and provides some much needed INF stability and right handed bat.

3 of his past 4 seasons. 33, 31, 28 starts. Yes, that is not EVERY start but its not like he is missing huge chunks of time. There is a huge difference between Johnson and Pavano, for one Johnson actually is able to strike people out and a top of the rotation type guy, Pavano was/is a back end of the rotation type guy. Also Johnson was "hurt" in 2007/2008 because he was having Tommy John surgery. It's not like he was going on and off the disabled list for various aliments Pavano Yankee style.

Trade for Josh Johnson, sign Scott Baker, trade Span for Andrus. Sign some veteran pitching on a 1 year deal and you are looking at a 90 win team. Book it.

Then we can give them pitching back if they really want it, its just not going to be the center piece (much like the Greinke trade, Santana trade, Sanchez trade etc) Also what on earth does Pavano have to do with Johnson?

He needs to be on the team as of opening day to be eligible, and you would need to offer him a qualifying offer, which is very different from arbitration. A qualifying offer level will be determined each season, but it's based on an average of the top 125 salaries for the previous season. For 2012, at the last time it was updated (early August by Buster Olney), it was going to take a $13.3M offer for one season for a qualifying offer. If the player accepts that, you pay them that amount for the next year or negotiate a longer term deal. If they reject that, then the team will be eligible for a compensatory draft pick. If the team does not make an offer up to the qualifying level or the player accepts the qualifying offer, there is no compensatory pick. If Johnson is hurt in 2013, it is highly doubtful he would get an estimated $13.7M after 2013 (current number for after 2013 in Olney's August article), so the Twins would be stuck with him at that number if they even offered that amount to him. So there's a fairly high chance that Josh Johnson would bring you back no picks in 2013, and there's a nonzero chance that Johnson provides you less WAR than Scott Baker (Baker earned 1.1 fWAR more in 2011 in a season where both missed time due to injury). Johnson has been "hurt" 1 of the past 4 years. I'm not sure what your point exactly is, by the way, why are you trolling Twins boards anyways? I thought you were a Braves fan?

Compared to the league average for shortstops of .674? Or the Twins shortstops' .580? You apparently didn't read the 2nd half of my post. I like Hardy and he is obviously is better then anything the Twins have put out at SS the past two years, but I am not so sure that I would want him here currently on his 3 year 21 mil contract.

He won't win. Should finish top 5 but prob wont.

Funny, no mention of his .671 OP 81OPS+ or his .282 OBP. I like Hardy and he is obviously is better then anything the Twins have put out at SS the past two years, but I am not so sure that I would want him here currently on his 3 year 21 mil contract.

Twins will be in the top 12 in many publications next year. They added back a healthy Gibson, Berrios, Buxton and guys like Hicks, Rosario and Arcia all took steps forward. Plus they have a few guys sneaking up the charts like Kepler, Jones etc. Kab is right, they didn't really have anyone fall off the map and the only guys who graduated weren't really top 10 guys anyways (Parmelee was close though)