Dantes929

Seems like walks should be part of the equation in the first place.

No problem. I did say regular season and I have an easy time distinguishing. You are more a destination guy and I am more a journey guy. I enjoyed the ride in 2006 and thought it was a damn shame it had to end but as happy and excited as I was in 87 and 91 I could say the same thing for those years. "Wait til next year" have always been bitter sweet words to me no matter how the current season ended.

I'm not saying Fidyrich or Valenzuela make my HOF but I would listen. I have never been to Cooperstown so maybe they already have something there but those two added such flavor to the game that it seems like they should be represented somewhere. Less about stats and more about history.

2006 was my favorite regular season of all time. 25-33 and 11.5 games back. I remember Mike and Mike saying "stick a fork in the Twins. They are done". They went 71-33 the rest of the way in one of the most exciting finishes in baseball history and Morneau was the guy carrying them. I know Mauer was great that year also as were a few other guys but my memory was that no one carried a team over a 100 games like Morneau did that year. I put him at number one and am fine with the rest of the order from there.

We'll just disagree with this which is fine. To me a guy that pitches 20 seasons and gets 300 wins (for simplicity lets just go with that stat and all that goes with it) is less deserving than a guy that pitches 10 seasons and gets 200 wins. If someone wanted to make the case for Fidryich or Valenzuela I would listen. Their star shown so bright for a while they stood out above the crowd in what was a colorful era. I would put them at least on equal footing with Harold Baines who had a very long career of good. Maybe a lone voice in the wilderness here.

Cliff Lee was really good and my memory was that he would be a fringy candidate but looking at his career he's got a Cy Young and two top 5 finishes so not really a great comp to 2 Cy Youngs and 3 top 5 finishes. A better comp is a guy that I Have been calling for and that is Ron Guidry. One Cy Young in about the most dominant seasons ever that ended in World Series Champion along with 3 top 5 finishes Again, do you want a HOF of very good for a long time or great for a shorter time. My HOF would probably have Santana and Guidry ahead of Blyleven and Morris. I'm not going to be outraged no matter what.

We'll see. I kind of view Mauer as having roughly the same chance and he does have an MVP. In my book, 3 batting titles or two Cy Youngs should get you in.

Interesting that Liriano wasn't on the list. Hard to determine from that list how much longevity is valued. Think about it though. Aside from the Yankees, the Red Sox the Dodgers and Cardinals how many other teams would have Santana ranked 5th and Viola 8th. How many other teams could you name 10 great pitchers? 5?

I thought I was in mid season form by complaining about two things that logically contradict each other. For example you shouldn't complain that the starter who went 5 innings should have been pulled in the 3rd while also saying that the relievers shouldn't have been brought in until the 7th. The fact that I confused Baldelli with the author I am currently reading just proves I'm in mid season form.

Baldacci doesn't have any idea what he is doing. His pitching management is the worst. He's bringing the relievers in way too soon and leaving the starters in way too long.

I'm just guessing injuries were part of it.

Below is a link to the cluster that ended with Mack leaving. He was not a platoon player. I believe he got hurt during 1993 and also missed the first 30 games in 1994. He was having a monster year before the strike was called. Mack was 2nd in WAR in 1991 only to Tapani. He was 2nd only to Puckett in 1992 and he was 2nd only to Knoblach in 1994 and only because he played 28 fewer games. He was on pace for a 7.8 WAR over 162 games. Keep in mind those teams had Knoblach, Puckett, Hrbek, etc. Yes, he did mash left handed hitting but he was good against righties also. https://www.twinkietown.com/2017/5/11/15626864/how-the-twins-lost-shane-mack

I think Kaat was probably appreciated in his time. I just don't know if he is remembered in the same vein. For second highest fWAR he just is never talked about much on these boards. Carew, Killebrew, Allison, Oliva and yes, even Tovar are brought up way more often.

Honorable mention goes to Nick PUnto. Most fans here would have guessed his WAR as a Twin at somewhere around -70 based on comments while he was here. It was actually +10 so his spread of 80 is by far the biggest.

Just my own take. I have always thought Mack was overlooked. His career OPS as a Twin was better than Puckett's. I think Radke has always been valued exactly as he was. A good durable pitcher. I would take him off the list. Goltz was much the same pitcher but no one really talks about him. Koske would be on top of my list. I just don't remember him being as good as his numbers but his numbers were really good. I don't know about Mauer. He was great and people knew it and then he was just ok and people knew it. Tapani doesn't qualify but he had the best ERA, by far the best WHIP and the best OPS+ of any of the regulars on the 91 team. Rick Aguillera honorable mention. My list 1. Koskie 2. Goltz 3. Tobar 4. Kaat

I had high hopes for him as well but think the "making the ball go very far" was the problem. He was a .300 hitter in the minors and hit home runs at a better rate than in the majors but am guessing the ones in the majors went a lot farther and were more clustered down the right field line. Just another guy that put on some muscle and fell in love with how far he could hit it rather than how often.

Never saw Vic Power. Mienkiewecz and Morneau were very good. Mauer was probably deserving of a Gold Glove. Hrbek was definitely deserving of at least one. My memory of Carew was that he was just ok. I know killebrew was listed at 6'0 but he seemed shorter and just didn't seem like a good target. I felt like he was less of a defensive liability at 3rd base. First base isn't just about making the plays you are expected to make. Its about saving errors for your teammates whether through good scoops or good reach. I just remember thinking Killebrew and Carew didn't have it.

Not sure what the criteria is here. As far as memorable I immediately thought Thome, Dozier's two in 4 days and Joe Mauer's in 2017. It was early in the season but hardly meaningless. Certainly memorable.

I am thinking 5 Carews and 4 Killebrews might be the best mix.

If you want to just go by OPS+ then Shane Mack beats Hrbek, Puckett and Mauer (though he doesn't quite have enough at bats to get to 3,000 but not really his fault). I am certain no one thinks Mauer post bi lateral and definitely post concussion was one of the Twins best. Same with Oliva's injuries. Carew only played 8 seasons with the Twins so how about ranking them by OPS+ for each players best 8 seasons. OPS+ does adjust for park played. Then you have Killebrew at 159, Carew at 150. Oliva at 140.6. Mauer at 138. Hrbek at 136.4. Puckett at 134.6 and Allison at 132.5. Knoblach way back there Now almost no one would put Puckett ahead of Hrbek on the all time list but I wonder how much a Leibrandt hanging curveball and a great series against the Jay has to do with that perception. Should it? No shame in being the Twins 6th best hitter of all time. I was a big fan of all of them though Hrbek annoyed me a little. Always felt like baseball ranked behind wrestling, eating hunting and fishing with him. He was changing batting stances all the time and was always trying to pull the ball and hit moon shots. Those were fun to watch but leading the league in distance past the fence doesn't mean any more than the guys that barely cleared it. I seriously thought he had the talent to add 20 points to his average while still hitting more homers. He had the talent to be in the HOF. I'm not saying he squandered the talent because he was definitely one of the all time Twins greats but I am saying he might have got more out of it.

I'm all right with that list. Morneau probably 6th. Would have been nice to see what Morneau, Mauer and Oliva would have done without injuries.

I don't think anyone looked right in the Pirates uniforms in those days.

Don't forget that it wasn't just 28 innings in the majors but another 135 innings in the minors combining for 163 innings of below 2.00 ERA. Predicting progression, regression or maintaining isn't really that much different that looking at Berrios' body of work and predicting he will advance to the next level simply because other pitchers with his history did make the leap. I wasn't kidding when I said Dobnak should be #4 to start the season and Bailey, and others should be fighting for the #5 spot. The idea that a guy that used to pitch well but has been somewhere between ok and bad the past 5 years is more likely to pitch well than the guy that actually pitched well last year makes little sense to me. Sure, give the #5 spot edge to Bailey. #4 spot edge should be to Dobnak.

Do you know for sure that players don't get paid? I can't find it anywhere and not getting paid for a strike is no semblance of proof that they don't get paid for Covid19. Players get paid for being injured during Spring Training. I would say this situation is way closer to that than a strike. I also think it would be very reasonable for the suspension to be reduced, not game for game, but in proportion to the shortened season.

Widely believed that the Spanish Flu originated on an army base in Kansas.