Riverbrian

Yeah... I got that coming. God forbid anyone should have a positive comment. My fault... Carry on pointing out every players flaws. That seems to come more naturally. I just reviewed the tape on the attempted catch. I miss assessed it... It was a substandard effort. Not worth mentioning when we can razor focus on throwing arms and stats vs left handers at night in throwback jerseys.

Span brings more in a trade. Teams want experience at the deadline.

So close... Just getting a glove on that ball is amazing enough. Decades will have to pass before you see a catch like that. So close!!! How many players would even attempt it? Of those... How many players could even get a glove on it? That catch... If made... Would have been one of the best ever. You were 6 feet from almost seeing something historical. If only he could have hung on. What an effort. His catch last year on Vlad has to rank as one of the best ever. Twins Fans... hopefully... are starting to realize what this kid can do and hopefully appreciate it.

They have two scouts in Lansing. That excites me a little. Makes me think something is brewing. Anything on Twitter that's say those same two scouts or other scouts haven't been to Manchester New Hampshaire or Las Vegas Nevada.

Ben could eventually be pushed out by our prospects in the future. Although... Hes a Gardy type of player and it may not happen under Gardenhire. I don't know. However... Those players are not here right now. This is the 2012 Twins and Ben is without question a 2012 starter. I'm enjoying watching him play ball and I can't understand how others don't feel the same. This guy plays baseball how it's supposed to be played. I really don't recall seeing any player like him for quite some time. That catch he almost made tonight would have given him another MLB play of the year award. The play he made on Vlad last year that gave him the award last year was beyond words. Sensational catch after sensational catch. .300 hitter. This kid can put some butts in the seats. Are doubles really the sticking point for the anti Revere crowd. It alludes me.

I get your point... It's valid... Ultimately... It means that you would have done without. He just might have gotten every penny. The Twins may have overpaid by a million or two compared to what others would have offered... I really don't know. The only thing that I'm pretty sure of. Bill Smith and the Pohlads were looking for a poster boy to open the stadium with. Joe was going to be that guy. I dont think either party at the negotiation had a gun pointed at anyone's head. Joe was probably thankful he gets to stay with his team and home state. The Twins Front office was probably high five central. Saying we got him locked up. Happiness all around and then the Leg Weakness thing happened.

Yeah... I think there is something to Target Field. Could be a funnel of wind through the plaza coupled with the high walls. Regardless he still hits the ball hard. A little more lift could still mean more homers on the road and more doubles at TF. Opposite field stuff.

I stand corrected... Nothing here to support my claim that Ben is getting cookies. Although when you consider that Ben has only struck out 16 times that will obviously lessen his strike percentage because he does not see the third strike typically. I thnk curt nailed it with his first post. Ben just makes absurd contact. Couple that with his speed and you've got a fun player. If he keeps up that contact rate and betters his discipline by avoiding the contact outside the zone and learns to foul off some tougher pitches. The walk rate should improve. And his BA can even go higher. Of course that's also like saying that if Liriano learns to spot his slider perfectly and drops his whip a full point... His era will improve. Easier said than done. Last year Ben did hit a bunch of dribblers back to the pitcher and he still has that happening but that is a by product of what he has been taught. All coaches tell a guy with Bens speed and power to beat the ball into the ground. The middle is the best place for that. When you are shooting for the middle the pitcher can get in the way. Looking at Carrolls numbers. They are hard to explain. High percentage Strikes thrown... High percentage contact and low percentage of balls fouled off. Yet decent Walk total. Excellent stuff Curt... I applaud your efforts. Thank you.

I completely agree that it was a perfect storm. When you consider everything... What a George Clooney type storm it was. I don't necessarily agree that Joe bled the Twins. It's how the game is played. I agree that the The Twins have the option of rejecting any agents contract requests... Like I said... The other option was to do without. I don't necessarily agree that other GMs giving out stupid money doesnt justify Mauers contract. Each stupid contract signed gets the market value to where it is. Putting a team like the Twins in the situation of signing Mauer to stupid money or going without. All in all... I'm glad Mauer is here and I'm glad the contract was signed. Regardless of his production... His contract has always signified to me that the Twins will compete with all of baseball for a player or two. I was heartened by that... Still am.

Exactly... I've been driving that point for awhile. I wonder if the stats back that up with a higher strike percentage. I could be wrong. I'm curious to see if I am.

I think paying $3.50 a gallon for gas is too much. Yet... If I want Gas. That's the price I have to pay. My other option is to go without. There was a time when I filled up my tank and my car wouldn't start the next morning. Some bad gas had ruined my fuel injectors. Still the price was $3.50 a gallon. Caveat Emptor!!! Joes market value was around 23 million at the time of the contract. The other option was to do without. Any thought that the Twins have control over market value for their players or other teams players doesn't give full consideration to the other 29 teams with pocketbooks.

Nice job Curt. Do you have any info on the percentage of strikes thrown to Ben in comparison to the league average. I could be wrong but I suspect that Ben sees more strikes than average and that will also add to his lack of walks. Regardless, fouling off some pitches will help because in order to get walks you need to see more pitches and if they get put in play with a swing or two... That kinda stops that train.

I don't know about more inflicted but I think Pitchers go down all over the place and all the time. Throwing as many pitches as they do takes a toll on the arm. Not just the pitch counts in the game but the bullpen sessions, off season programs... all of it. Years of throwing from Little League on up... adds up. Curve Balls, Sliders, the different spins put on a baseball. I'm sure mechanics help along with stretching and weights but you are still overusing a part of the human body and unnaturally. I think arms were probably not designed for throwing. I think they were designed for reaching into farm equipment to unjam stuff.

I'd rather have that Crystal Ball for myself. Wouldn't you rather have it in your hands? A Crystal Ball would have some amazing value. I love my Twins but me first.

I wasn't directing it at anyone in particular. Just pointing out that Twins lit up the scoreboard to the tune of 23 million a year and we have threads dedicated to how it killed this team... I don't agree with that but I'm pointing it out. We also have threads with people saying that the Twins should have went after free agent X Y and Z. I don't agree or disagree with that but am pointing out that there are times the Anti Mauer contract folks contradict themselves with pro money spending. I'm not saying you are one of those people. Chief I hope you know that I assume that any attempt to spend money is done so with the hope of improving the team. I understand that there are hits and misses. I just believe that a temporary hit in payroll may be prudent at this juncture. George H.W. Bush explained it to me that way... Or was it Dana Carvey playing Bush. I cling to the hope that if pitching stabilizes and the pieces are in place for contenderdom... the money will return. I'm also hopeful that the Twins are not basing payroll on some pre determined percentage structure and basing payroll upon on the current status of the club and the pieces in place.

I agree with you Nick. We have people on this site who talk about Mauers leg iron of a contract and how it has crippled the organization and we have people who want to spend more money on potential leg irons. Being prudent isn't always a bad thing. Money spent does not always lead to victories. Just ask the Mets.... It works for the Yankees or seems to but maybe they spent on the right people and they spent a huge amount. Edwin Jackson would not have fixed what ails by himself.

A part of me wants Liriano pitching for us in 2013 cuz we need the pitching so bad and we need a staff ace. Another part of me wants him forcibly removed from the clubhouse by armed security personnel and asked never to return. I would love to be a fly on Terry Ryan's cell phone. I would love to know exactly what other clubs think of our boy Frankie. By the way... If I was a fly on Terry Ryan's cell phone... I would also fly into his ear and become... You guessed it... A bug in his ear.

Joe still hits the ball hard enough. I Think the Power could return. It's a matter of a swing tinker in my opinion... Just a hair more lift in that swing and his HRs could increase. Will that happen... No idea... But I think it's possible... He still hits the ball hard.

Great post Scottz... You did a better job pointing out what I've been unsuccessfully trying to point out... Yes Ben's arm is weak in comparison but it isn't going to matter much. Players advance extra bases based more... On where the ball is and where the outfielder is in relationship to the ball. If Ben gets to the ball quicker and can we assume he does cuz I don't have stats on that. If Ben gets to the ball quicker and gets it in quick... That is effective at holding the runner. Regardless of his noodle arm. If he has the Rock in his hands and is set to throw it. They will not attempt trying to pick up the extra base. In a nutshell... Getting to the ball quicker is just as effective at preventing the extra base(even more so in my opinion). As the guy who gets to the ball slower and possesses the best cannon arm in the majors. Just another way that his best in class speed helps. I concede that his arm will come into play negatively on tag situations at times but we are talking about a few yards difference and very few outs over the course of a season. However the range plays that he makes can help prevent big innings by getting to balls that others can't reach. It's an out made that can stop teams from stringing some stuff together and piling up multiple runs in an inning. Take the range over arm strength every single time.

I'm being played here. Not continuing. Carry on. I spend too much time on this site.

I understand exactly... What outfield assist means. My point is that runners are advancing on Everybody and they go when they feel safe regardless of the cannon and they feel safe to advance based more on where the ball is as opposed to who is throwing. My opinion... Not yours... I get that. We really don't have a stat that suggests how often runners feel adventurous based on who is holding the ball in the OF. I believe that getting to the ball quicker makes up the arm strength difference more than you might think but we will have to agree to disagree I guess. Will his arm cost the Twins runs or Games... Yes it will. So will Spans some day and Willingham. Doesn't happen enough to worry about. We currently do not have Francouer or Cuddyer in our OF... That is also something to point out. Too much is made of his arm.

OF assists was brought to point out how often the Rocket Arms are stopping the advancing runner but OK... Let's forget that if you like. I acknowledge this part of his game. His arm is below par and I e said it. I see runners advancing on Revere. I believe that they would have advanced on (insert other OF'er here) cuz arm strength isn't the only answer... but let's forget that as well... I take it back. Lets just say... Get to the ball quick and get it in quick. Problem solved. Or is that unreasonable. lol...

Im trying for reason... I really am. Q: Does his arm suck comparably to the average? A: Yes it does. Q: Can Ben throw the ball 200 feet A: Yes he can Denard Span has played 1219 innings since 2011 and has 3 assists over that span(pun not intended). Ben Revere has played 1330 innings since 2011 and has 5 assists over that span. Looking at 2011 Alex Gordon played 1309 innings in 2011 and led the league with 20 Assists. Nick Swisher (Random RF) 1190 innings in 2011 9 assists. Somehow Span gets a free pass for his arm and a large majority of posters wring their hands over Revere In a similiar amount of innings Alex Gordon threw out 15 more runners than Revere which is a about 1 base runner every ten games. Keep in mind that Gordon was the top arm in 2011. Random RF Nick Swisher threw out 9 last year. That's 1 more baserunner tossed every 35 games in comparison to Revere. Swisher and Revere both have 2 this year. Ben has less innings this year. What exactly are we talking about here? Its real simple... Bens arm does suck but Runners are advancing the extra base on Francouer and they are advancing on Ben Revere. They advance based upon where the ball is and where the fielder is. Ben will get to the ball(assumption) 3 to 5 steps quicker than Ryan Doumit and should more often be able to get into a better throwing position with his Speed to the ball. This is what runners and base coaches use to determine if the extra base will be attempted to be taken. Does he have the ball in his hands or is he still running toward the ball. They don't want to get tossed out on the base paths. If Ben has the ball. They will stop the runner. He doesn't have a hose but he does have the ball and he can throw the ball faster than any of them can run despite his piss poor arm. The Hose from the OF is a beautiful thing and it's a key out when it happens. Absolutely huge... It just doesn't happen that often and I haven't witnessed an over abundance of advancement of extra bases on Bens arm. I missed the White Sox debacle. Would Parmelee or Willingham in RF made a difference in that game. I don't know... I didn't see it. In the games I've watched. The arm just hasn't come into play enough to say that it's a concern. I say this as reasonably as I can.

I didn't see that game. I also haven't seen runners flying around the bases because Ben is out there and I won't. Because too much is made of his arm.

I don't see the exaggeration.