bunsen82

I actually think Dozier could age very well. I could argue he has gotten better defensively and offensively every year. I also think he works very hard at his craft, takes good care of his body which would allow him to age well. I also think we could get him back for a reasonable contract. I think he likes playing for the twins may give a home town discount at the end of the day even if he suggests otherwise. I also think with a Franchise tag, and all the other players coming out, his market may actually be a little depressed especially with his age.

I edited my post.

This is likely going to be my last post on this topic, but there are some things that I think need to be posted. The first is I think due to Twinsdaily having ties, I actually give credit that there has been very minimal attacks on Betsy on this website that I have seen. Compared to other fan websites of teams after incidents it is usually a cess pool. Kudos. However, I have lurked these forums for nearly 5 years and yes this topic did hit a nerve for a variety of reasons, I stated in a previous post I had a false harassment allegation against me, I have a daughter but I was also in a management position that had to investigate allegations like this. To the meat of my post. Warne's article is accurate per RAINN, of 1,000 rapes (these statistics do translate over to harassment and other assault claims) only 310 are reported, 57 lead to arrests, 11 are referred to prosecutors , 7 lead to felony convictions and 6 are still incarcerated. Of the 310 reports approximately 20 are false allegations. Hence the 6%, but in actuality its 2% because these claims are so under reported. The reasons for such low reporting and convictions are bountiful. But I wish Warne would have pushed further as to why. I would highly recommend reading Shana L Meiers book, "Rape ,Victims, and investigations: Experiences and Perceptions of Law." Pages 85-87 go in depth that in traumatic situations are memories are not stored in the same area where most of our memories are, thus they are more fragmented. For most police officers or investigators they struggle to get information with their techniques of just badgering questions. New techniques include asking more what did they smell or hear, which can ultimately get more details of what occurs. However the bigger issue is in recalling the events, a majority embellish details (Page 85). wwwmensdefense.com says over 80% of claims have lies or embellished details. Meier states this occurs for a variety of reasons, they are ashamed or they try to build up their story more, specifically exaggerating details of the crime or more than not exaggerating how much they fight back or yelling or screaming and saying no, because they feel that they should have fought back. I talked to police officer friend he says he feels the percentage is closer to 2/3rds of claims to 75% have some false detail in the claim but this causes a majority of the claims to not even make it to trial due to having concerns on the credibility of the witnesses. Even with the embellishments I want to reiterate, that doesn't mean the events didn't happen, and these are not false accusations. Long story short, I could see if some of the embellished details are out, that both Betsy and Sano could take a lie detector test and both pass. You may ask why and the answer would be they had extremely different perceptions of what was occurring. I can come up with a very plausible set of events in my mind that would be very favorable to Sano yet also support Betsy that she felt very uncomfortable in the situation. The issue is, none of us know what the real truth is, and the investigation may not even discover what the real truth. I am sure everyone remembers all the statements about how strong of a grip on a handshake Adrian Peterson had, I am sure Sano could be very similar, lets just say he reached his hand out, she reached hers out, yes it very well could have hurt but there would be nothing wrong. Again in the hallway a similar situation occurred, yes it could have hurt a bit, he may have gone in again she shied away, she did feel uncomfortable but she never truly expressed it or told him he was hurting her. After 30 seconds to a minute he gets the hint stops and leaves. She could have felt very intimidated, hurt, scared, and he could have felt nothing occurred. I spoke before about my accusation. This was in 2007 and I was 24 years old, similar to Sano. I took a 2 day course, that went into all the pitfalls and discuss womens and mens perceptions of events and to realize perception is the truth in ones eyes, even if that isn't the truth of what occurred and what we can do to ensure we don't fall into those pitfalls and how not to make women feel uncomfortable and ultimately how we should treat them. . I think all men should take a course like this, there is a possibility that this incident saved me from having a bigger incident down the road. In a similar way this could be similar type situation for Sano. My guess is all players took a similar course after Adrian Peterson issue and ultimately the Sano of today may not be the Sano of 2015. Either way based on some of the comments I could see that he may be too cavalier in his attitudes and has some major growing up to do. I could also see that he may have not deserved this sort of public ridicule. He is being grouped with Lauer, Harvey Weinstein, for baseball players Derek Norris and Aroldis Chapman. The details of this account no where near reach the levels of any of those individuals or cases. This is just flat out wrong. I have a feeling many are going to be surprised and disappointed if there is a very minimal punishment, no punishment or possible that Sano could be cleared on any wrong doing. I have a feeling that is ultimately where this is going to go, unless more things pop up that showed this was not a one time incident and the claim with the lookouts, really isn't another claim, but it very well could show there may be more women out there with similar situations. I hope ultimately Betsy can find peace, that Sano can learn from this and become a better man, and as a society we can all grow. I like the metoo movement for giving a voice to abuse and bringing it to the forefront, but I have a fear it is bringing some unintended consequences and some individuals may get caught up in the whirlwind and experience pain, shame, and potentially financial implications that should not of. I can thank the hero's for making this a better world for my daughter, but would never encourage her to take this route if this would occur to her, due to some negative consequences for future employment threats ect. I would encourage her to discuss it with a lawyer, get the actual details ironed out and then file a complaint with the company immediately or file a claim with the police department. We need to also get these abusers off the streets, with the RAINN data, too many are able to continue to roam. I have ramble to long and I am heading off into the sunset on this topic.

I disagree. You don't always dismiss the accusations. In this case what has hurt her is already provable misstatements hurt some credibility as well as waiting two years. My guess is this string is going to get moved to the sportsbar. Plus there would be more evidence to support her claims. People actually remember seeing her pulled into a hallway or video of this. That is all long gone. Actually bruising to support physically manhandling her. This will only result in a slap on the wrist, if this really happened as stated he should be in jail.

This is what I struggle with, was the demon within herself that she wanted to set free or was it telling the world this happened to her or to let the world know Sano is a slimeball including the 1st base coach. If it was to say something happened to her state everything she did, leave Sano's name out of it, If she truly wanted nothing to happen to Sano. I think she wanted to inflict pain, or have him punished for doing something inappropriate. She should of followed her contract and filed a grievance with the twins, hired a lawyer maybe to guide her through the process, or file a police complaint. Most likely the statute of limitations is over (1 year), 3 years for a felony charge. But if you had a zealous public attorney they could try a felony account - even though I don't think there is enough evidence to support. I understand being afraid but if this was to protect other women, you gave him 2 more years of free reign. As a note, I am more concerned on the 1st base coach. He deserves no mention in a Metoo post. She gives enough information to decipher who it is. Nothing he did falls in that category in my mind. Why mention him?

Comrade, honestly she was probably scared, intimidated and likely confused. The issue is over time ones perception of an incident changes whether she becomes more confident in herself or she began to really see this as an issue. I believe one of her quotes was she thought this could affect her employment as a photographer at Twins events and other sporting events. I fully think something occurred, I want to make that clear. I just don't think it is near what was described yesterday. I am not the judge and jury on that though.

Do Lets look at this a different way. Doomtints, she has now had to put privacy on her twitter and facebooks accounts. She has been hassled, She has people questioning her and probably has received some threats. She got this off her chest she says to "free herself" of this incident. She is not free, her life is going to be a roller coaster ride for the near future, and anytime anyone googles her name this is going to pop up. For future employment, background check ect. I doubt she will want to be reminded of this 10, 15 20 years down the road and my guess is she regrets the way she did this, maybe not necessarily that people will see what she thinks Sano actually is. He may be a monster, or he may have been an entitled 21 year old who needs a really big wake up call. My biggest concern is I feel like the opinion on this board is he is a rapist or a physical abuser. He very well may be but this story, alone and on the information provided does not get near those levels. At worst he has a misdemeanor assault which is less than an OWI.

An investigation in MLB has already started, I am guessing a criminal case is already started and they are going to go question her and see if she is willing to cooperate. She has some potential liability of a lawsuit from not only Sano but the 1st base coach - she negatively affected both of their reputations. Her biggest chip is to have a lawyer possibly file a lawsuit and both sides dismiss their claims. Her life is going to be upside down based on her decision to go this way. Yes she technically has the right to do this, but there could be some ramifications. A lawyer may also talk her into a lawsuit saying this has caused your reputation to also take a hit and your possible future employment opportunities will not be great. She made the claim nothing further will occur, yet in actuality I bet it all occurs.

That is exactly what I am saying- not Falvine but Twins who would then direct to the corporate compliance officer. Or call the police go through that route. The Twins have a public phone number. Phone Number: (612) 659-3400 (right on there website). Most companies also have a hotline number. Your on a slippery slope though Comrade. If someone makes a false or lets say incorrect allegation against you, it is put out on the public, you are stating it is okay for you to potentially lose your job, have public ridicule, have your kids harassed based on your your opinion all individuals who have a claim against them are vile, and that there is no variability in the severity of the claim or whether it is actually true - everyone gets the same punishment. The problem is this kind of occurred while she is employed. My guess is she has some type of contract that states any type of greivances should go through corporate compliance. That is standard. I understand what a lot of you are saying but this isnt as black and white as we would like it to be.

I don't know Nicks status within TwinsDaily. I have attached an article. I understand this occurred while she was not technically doing work for TwinsDaily. For corporate law any allegation is required to be investigated at minimum at the corporate level if management becomes aware whether or not the individual affected cooperated. I also don't know his status if he is a mandatory reporter. Now I agree there is some grey area here and this likely could be classified as friendly conversation outside of work, just be aware a company can still be liable if they knew or should have known and did not do a proper investigation to ensure this sexual harassment does not occur again. I can find more caselaw if needed, this looked pretty clear cut though, even though this is looking at employee on employee harassment. https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawYouCanUse/Pages/LawYouCanUse-378.aspx

Hypothetically lets say something did happen we take her at her word, however the investigation cannot validate her claims or it didn't rise to the level of harm for any discipline through MLB or criminally. Does Sano still deserve to have his name smeared? Is that just the risk of being an athlete. Now I have read the above posts, so there may be some more smoke regarding a pattern of behavior.

1. Misreading signals going in to attempt a kiss and being denied no is not assault in my book. How many high school boys and girls could be charged if that were the case. If he is physically manhandling her to try and kiss her yes that is a different story. I think we can all agree that point. 2. You think I am discrediting her story. I disagree, I am saying it very much appears she is embellishing some of the details, and any imbellishment is ultimately a lie and can then taint all other claims she has made. Misstatements or not, in the public opinion th hubbub would not have been created if she said he was holding on to me for 2 minutes . The salacious line is he held me against my will trying to push me into the bathroom for 10 minutes with me yelling, screaming, nobody coming to my help and he finally gives up and I have no real injuries to show for it. 3. I disagree that she has a right to tell her story in the format she did. Why does she have the right to attack his character by her claims only. As I said, an individuals perception of reality, may not actually be reality, but she has put this out as fact with her version only. Do what the person with matt lauer did, go to the company keep your name out of it, have the investigation completed and be done with it. To me it appears she wanted the attention right or wrong. She wanted to be part of the movement, and she also wanted to publicly shame him whether she admits it or not. Otherwise she would just say it was an anonymous Twins or sports player. Which by the way would not have caused the headlines and may or may not of caused an investigation.

So Mr. Brooks, do you think it is fair to Sano to potentially grossly misstate the time on this issue and also to be labeled of sexual abuse or a predator. That is what he is being labeled as. No charges have been brought forth, no investigation completed and he already has those attached to him, without validating her story. If you fully believe it then fine, but you also have to admit there are some holes in her story which makes it difficult to say anything actually occurred due to lag in time of two years.

Again what is the harm being threatened or implied, she has her perception, but trying to kiss her (not even following through is not assault. If I am holding my child for 30 seconds as they are trying to run into a street is not assault. Who is to say she was truly resisting the whole time. What if the hands are there, she is not pulling away, and he is thinking its okay, where is the harm. Again this is probably above my pay grade and yours, but in either case this is a very very minor criminal issue at worst. At worst a couple games suspension on the baseball side. What did he truly do wrong and what should the punishment be.

Even a year later though, as a part of Twinsdaily, I don't know if you have a corporate governance or handbook but it may be that any allegations reported need to be filed with the local police, or at the very least notify the Twins. If he is the monster many want to claim he is, then Nick possibly enabled him to do this to other women for another year. And if he is the monster there will be other women. These predators cannot control their impulses.

The issue becomes if the time changes to 30 seconds or 1-2 minutes, from 10, then is anything that she stated factually true, this is the slippery slope that she is going to enter because she potentially made some misstatements and her word is her only support at this time.

Assault At Common Law, an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact. An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal or civil liability. Generally, the common law definition is the same in criminal and Tort Law. There is, however, an additional Criminal Law category of assault consisting of an attempted but unsuccessful Battery. Statutory definitions of assault in the various jurisdictions throughout the United States are not substantially different from the common-law definition. I would argue no one has ever had a charge of assault of just holding someone's hands or upper arm unless it causes harm - bruising cut ect, or in an intentionally restraining manner. She claims the arm was purple after but no bruising. Again no harm no assault. Also Mr. Brooks we are arguing two separate points. I am saying something inconsequestial such as unintentionally restraining an arm really for 30 seconds doesn't rise to the level of criminal or even a violation of business law. More than 90 seconds and this is being done more against her will, there is no way this can still be construed as unintentional and we may have some minor punishments. Again minor, there was very little harm that occurred in this case. Yes it was traumatic for her, but again her threshold is different from criminal and business regulations.

Doomtints, so I would pose the question what punishment should there be for a male holding a women's wrist unintentionally tighter than he should have, making 2 attempts to kiss her, but not following through after no reciprocated, the whole event taking 30 seconds and him leaving and not doing anything else. What is truly wrong in this case other than him needing to A. read signals better and B. needing to understand his own strength. If this goes on for 10 minutes then yes, that is way too long, I would say anything more than 90 seconds to 2 minutes is pushing the line into a physical assault situation without that we don't even potentially have that claim.

I think clear heads will prevail. I will say late last night I was getting more upset after the thread was locked especially with post from Brock telling me "to back the **** up" and several of the other mods liking it. I realize you are all close to the situation and some of you may have a friendship with the accuser and it creates a situation where toes can be stepped on. After reading more and more though I ultimately see minimal to no punishment being dished out to Sano. The facts, and I am using that term loosely, just don't support any severe punishment. Add into the fact, from my experience doing investigations I would label her as a poor historian. We have the one discrepancy with Twins Daily, which can't be dismissed even though some on the board would like to, she has also admitted now it likely wasn't 10 minutes but it felt like eternity. This was the most salacious statement. Without knowing an exact time of how long this is it makes it very difficult to prove whether Sano truly did anything wrong legally, maybe not necessarily on a golden rule principle or how he should have treated her. My father in law had a cardiac event a couple years ago, his wife found him and she says she felt like she was frozen in time for 5 minutes before she called the police and it was another 5 minutes before police came. If that were the case he would be brain dead now. He is 100% healthy, and after timing some things out it was most likely 3-4 minutes from the time she found him to the time police came and started giving cpr which made all the difference. If this is even 1-2 minutes or even 30 seconds of Sano making advances at her but it felt like eternity, this story is completely different. She also threw blame on the agent and then stated he would essentially cover up or mislead to protect himself and the client. Whether she is aware or not that agent no longer is Sano's agent, has no current incentive to mislead and flatly denied he was aware of anything and was far away from the incident. I will admit I question how anyone can remember an event from 2 years ago - on his part unless it was truly traumatic which it wouldn't have been for him (which for Betsy it obviously was), but in either case it is diminishing her credibility and the likely only evidence is her word in all of this unless someone can corroborate something else. The concern I have is two articles I saw from major headlines stated Sano was accused of sexual assault/abuse. To me this is out and out wrong. I really don't think this was a metoo story personally, and if it was something Betsy wanted to do to break her free of this incident I really feel Sano's name should have never been brought up. She claims she wants no investigation, no lawyer and no case. I can guarantee she will have to lawyer up today. That lawyer will likely want to file a claim (even if its weak) and an investigation has already started so everything she didn't want is likely going to occur.

H2O, I fully agree, I also want to clarify my above statement, I wrote in a reply to another individual but they did take down their original post. If someone at twinsdaily became aware they should have reported due to the business relationship. Whether Betsy was willing or not. Several individuals have been fired from jobs for enabling the issue. Since there is not a direct line between the two and being two years ago I could see why letting her tell her story would be ok. The other is mandatory reporters and potentially required to report especially if it is to a dependent individual and for some states any sexual abuse or crime must be reported now questions asked. It used to be 24 hours, it is now down to 2 hours for the state I live in, and that is for all allegations. It is not the mandatory reporters job to determine the accuracy of the claims. Even it is coming from someone with dementia or other mental disease. That is for the investigators or police to determine.

it can be a scary world out there

I think there may be issues with the way this was handled, but not on Twinsdaily part and I am going to assume there was no cover-up or encouragement for her to keep quiet. Organizations have learned real quick you make a bigger mess if you try to brush it under the rug or pay for individuals to be silent. Because then it allows for more potential victims.

I do want to also state several people trust her individually or believe her or want to support her over Sano (although that may also be due to possibly getting negative reactions for supporting that individual - which I didn't even support Sano and I have received negative comments in this thread). This support comes from people on this site, obviously a couple twins, and several other individuals that have had interactions with her. The other thing in her favor is I cannot totally justify is why she should would have gone with him to this signing unless he did in a way force her to go. Unless there was a valid reason for this which I cannot come up with, she seems like an individual who is steadfast in her motives, but may be a bit timid. My wife would have told the 1st base coach if her statement was valid, he was a scumbag to his face and he should be ashamed of himself - which would have shut him down real quick, and with Sano would have been to yell to get his claws off of her before going in the 1st place and then would have kicked him where the sun don't shine if he wouldn't have let go. He very well may have not wanted to take a no for a no, but I wonder if she may have wanted to go along because he was a bit of a star and didn't yell and scream as loud as she has stated or said no due to being intimidated. We just don't have those answers. By the way I can guarantee any video evidence is long gone which sucks in this case for both parties. Lastly this is a personal dilemma I have with the Metoo movement. There are aspects of the Metoo movement that I really like and dislike. The first is I like that it gives attention to the issue and emboldens women to speak up and know there is support. However as I stated earlier this really isn't a proper method especially if you are going to name the accusers. The accused should have some protections until a proper investigation for a workplace or going through a criminal or civil trial ultimately determines guilt. I also question in this case what was the motive now for posting this. The metoo movement has now been out for over 2 months. Did it take her this long to build up the courage, was there some other incident in her life that pushed this to the forefront. Ultimately did she do this to become a part of the movement or did she have another motive. The second is what did she want the outcome to be, to shame Sano, to possibly start an investigation, to hurt him professionally? We don't know these answers, and if this really happened the answers to these questions really shouldn't matter. But I do question if there is more to this story, and if so then these questions are pertinent.

Brock, and John so she made an incorrect assumption. Either way there is a lot wrong in here I dislike. I have a 1 1/2 year old daughter, I have also been a manager that has investigated these types of events and also been accused of one, so no offense but you also need to back up a bit. The issue is validity of her statements right or wrong - one assumption or statement she has made is incorrect. Secondly she shouted this through the social web which causes a litany of issues. One is two individuals reputations are tarnished rightfully or possibly unnecessarily - you I and the public should not be judge and jury based on a single observers opinions of the events. This should have gone through the proper channels, whether notifying someone within Twinsdaily, the Twins organization or the police department, this really should have been done 2 years ago. If you think I am being tough she is going to have a lot tougher questions coming her way. There are 3 claims she has made, possibly kidnapped which she later states she ended up going along which nullifies that claim. Possible sexual abuse, which the worst offense is he tried to go in for a kiss and never kissed her (this is not clear to me based on the statement) - doesn't meet the threshold, and lastly the most likely is physical harm or abuse - for this to occur actual harm needs to occur (bruise, cut ect). Unsure whether this actually occurred she may have more evidence to support this. The only thing that can help her is more evidence, or more accusers come forward with similar stories otherwise this is merely a he said she said. The other thing is without going through the proper channels the three individuals can either claim they don't remember the events which could be accurate, or 2 they get their stories ironed out together. If you really want proper punishment she should have notified the police who could have questioned each of the 3 separately and seen if there was any discrepancies in the stories. Now she has set herself up for a lawsuit from both individuals. This is the way I see it right wrong or indifferent. I also realize there are scumbags out there, and Sano could very well be one. Bad deal all the way around.

How so Northwest, I can tell you personally I was accused through my workplace of a similar situation- not nearly to the level of this. It was not true, had no basis and that was how it was discovered during the investigation. If you took my accuser at her word where would that leave me. Its not to say the perception of that individual was wrong, maybe her perception was skewed, but its also to say, we have tangible evidence one of her statements was wrong, proven by John. I will leave it at that. I am also not discrediting her, no negative comments towards her, just saying lets let this play out, if what occurred is what is stated there will be other things supporting this.