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    Pitching Pipeline: What's Next?


    Nick Nelson

    It's not exactly a secret that the Twins need better pitching. They have allowed the most runs in the American League by a huge margin, hanging an above-average offense out to try.

    Now that Jose Berrios has joined the rotation (hopefully for good), what else is on the way?

    Image courtesy of Gary A. Vasquez, USA Today

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    Berrios has been uneven, at best, in his initial exposure to the majors. Hopefully he'll find his way. Regardless of what happens with the electric youngster, the Twins are going to need much more quality pitching in order be considered a credible contender within the coming year or two.

    Here's an in-depth look at five prospects that could be considered the next wave, when combining closeness and caliber. At the end, we'll review some conclusions that can be drawn from where things stand with the foremost incoming arms.

    Adalberto Mejia, LHP (23) - Class-AAA Rochester

    Mejia, who came over in the Eduardo Nunez trade, was a particularly important addition because he slots into a Rochester rotation that is otherwise devoid of potential impact talent. Jason Wheeler, Pat Dean and Logan Darnell may get some looks but they are marginal big-leaguers. Mejia could really be something.

    He's a big, sturdy, durable left-hander with good breaking stuff and an improving strikeout rate. He has made 10 starts at at Triple-A and has mostly looked up to the task, commanding the zone and inducing plenty of swings and misses. He is closest to the majors among Minnesota's higher-tier pitching prospects. Most believe he'll end up being a mid-rotation type if he pans out, though.

    Stephen Gonsalves, LHP (22) - Class-AA Chattanooga

    While Mejia is closest to the big leagues, he is not Minnesota's top pitching prospect. That honor, almost indisputably, goes to Gonsalves at this point. The southpaw ranked sixth on our preseason Twins top prospect rankings and has done nothing but enhance his luster this summer. He made short work of the Florida State League in his second stint with the Miracle (2.33 ERA, 0.96 WHIP in 11 starts) before moving up to Chattanooga and not missing a beat (2.01 ERA, 1.19 WHIP in nine starts).

    The jump from Single-A to Double-A is considered perhaps the toughest for prospects, especially for a pitcher like Gonsalves who is said to lack a quality breaking ball. The lefty is simply dominating from his 6'5" frame and has been on an insane run lately with a 4-0 record and 0.80 ERA over his past seven starts.

    In total this year, he has held opponents to a .187 average with three homers in 119 innings.

    The fast-rising 22-year-old is prone to command issues that will likely become more pronounced as he starts regularly facing more patient hitters (by his own admission he got some help in his last outing – a complete game victory – because opponents "kept swinging at anything close to the zone") but that's not unusual for someone his age with his body type.

    Gonsalves is the kind of guy that scouts would describe early on as "projectable," meaning that he had big room for improvement with his tall lanky build and improving feel for pitching. He is now turning into exactly the pitcher that evaluators optimistically projected. His ceiling exceeds any other starter in the system and it wouldn't be a huge shock if he got a look this September.

    Tyler Jay, LHP (22) - Class-AA Chattanooga

    Jay was a gamble. With the sixth pick in last June's draft, the Twins took the Illinois closer just ahead of Andrew Benintendi, who is currently batting .350 for the Red Sox, and Carson Fulmer, who mowed through the minors and has been on the White Sox roster for a month.

    Rather than go after the dynamic offensive talent or the established collegiate starter, the Twins decided to pick Jay with hopes he could successfully transition into a rotation piece. The results, thus far, have not been great.

    After signing, Jay went to rookie ball and finished out his season in his familiar relief role. This year the switch to starting got underway, and right now there is no indication that it will stick. Jay pitched well, albeit not amazingly, for 13 starts in Fort Myers before moving up to Chattanooga. There, he made two starts and a few relief appearances before being shut down amidst some pain. He was diagnosed only with nerve irritation in his neck, which is mostly good news but still not entirely encouraging.

    In 15 starts between Single-A and Double-A this year, Jay pitched past the fifth only five times. He never exceeded 100 pitches. And at the end of July, with 83 total innings thrown, he came down with neck and shoulder problems. At the very least, this looks like it is going to be an extended project. Meanwhile, the players that Minnesota passed up to select Jay have rocketed to the big leagues and are already auditioning for prominent roles in 2017.

    Not ideal.

    Kohl Stewart, RHP (21) - Class-AA Chattanooga

    When the Twins made Stewart the top high school player selected in the 2012 draft, no one really balked at the decision. He was widely viewed as the best prep arm in the nation. He lived up to his billing with a nice debut in rookie ball, and with a little projection, one could envision the athletic teenager growing into a frontline starting stalwart.

    But he really hasn't developed. Sequencing, approach and fastball movement have enabled Stewart to continually achieve good results while climbing the minor-league ladder, but his peripherals have lagged behind. Strikeout-to-walk ratio isn't everything but it says a great deal about the sustainability of good performance and Stewart's 1.90 career mark is flat-out unimpressive, even when you ignore the expectations and pedigree. A 14.9 percent overall strikeout rate in full-season baseball just doesn't equate to a premium prospect, and that's mostly why Stewart has fallen off every list.

    He's still young – one of the younger starting pitchers in the Southern League at 21, in fact – so there is time for Stewart to improve and find a way to overpower pro hitters. The innate ability is there, I think. But he's not really one to count on at this point.

    Felix Jorge, RHP (22) - Class-AAA Chattanooga

    A skinny hurler who also has never missed many bats, Jorge is not any analyst's idea of a premier prospect talent, but he deserves mention because of his consistent penchant for getting outs. Like the three above him on this list, Jorge has reached the Double-A level by age 22, a noteworthy feat. He was fantastic earlier in Fort Myers, posting a 1.55 ERA in 14 starts, and has performed well enough with the Lookouts following a rocky debut.

    In the past, Terry Ryan has compared Jorge to current Twins starter Ervin Santana, noting similiarities in their build and fluid mechanics. Given his youth and sterling results – he has a 2.68 ERA in 278 innings dating back to the start of 2015 – Jorge demands some attention, but he has tallied a lackluster 213 strikeouts during that span. In order to become a real factor in the rotation conversation over the next couple of years, he's got to find a way to start missing some bats.

    SUMMARY

    Berrios was the clear prize of the Twins pitching prospect pool. The jury is still very much out on him based on his stunningly poor early results in the majors, but of course there is plenty of time left.

    His troubling transition increases the urgency of finding potential rotation-fronting talent. The Twins will head into 2017 with few reliable commodities. While the organization could certainly be worse off with their top upcoming pitching talent than the five names listed above, especially after graduating the top arm, none of them realistically boast No. 1 or No. 2 starter upside, other than maybe Gonsalves.

    The free agent market for starting pitching this winter is lacking at the high end, especially with Stephen Strasburg inking an extension in Washington. Options will be limited for finding true impact arms. This is why I feel that the Twins need to consider a major shakeup via trade – such as trading Brian Dozier this offseason – in order to infuse more pitching promise into the system.

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    Okay, but let's talk comparatively. Let's start back in 2007. Ben Revere's selection was (and still often is) roundly criticized. He was the 28th selection. He was a "reach", and logic tells us that teams selecting directly after the Twins should have been able to take advantage of the fact that the idiots in Minnesota passed up a few stronger prospects.

     

    The next 5 prospects taken in 2007 were Wendell Fairley, Andrew Brackman, Josh Smoker, Nick Noonan, and Jon Gilmore. So, not only did the Twins in retrospect appear to have selected wisely, but now let's look at what happened ahead of their opportunity to select a player. What you'll find is that 19 of the 27 players drafted ahead of Revere will end up having worse careers than Revere, or no career at all. In other words, looking at the 33 players selected, only 8 of them will have been better, and none of the eight were available for the Twins to draft.

     

    I can expand on this for the next four years. Of the 25 players selected just after the Twin's selection (five each year), only 4 of the 25 project to accumulate more WAR than the player selected that year by the Twins. Those are Randal Grichuk and Michael Trout, both selected by the Angels in the #24 and #25 slots in Gibson's year, Brett Lawrie, selected 2 slots later than Hicks, and Christian Yelich, selected 2 slots after Wimmers. And importantly here, we're talking about the 5 Twins draft selections that people rant about the most among those of the last decade: Revere, Hicks, Gibson, Wimmers, and Michael. And contrary to the general impression and the common narrative, over half of the 110 players drafted ahead of the Twin's selections in this time period will likely have no better careers or will have worse careers than the Twin's selections. And again, we're dealing with two of the five probably having no career to speak of with Michael and Wimmers, and two others being rightfully viewed as having less than stellar careers in Revere and Hicks.

     

    Only a half-dozen teams were NOT guilty of passing on Trout. So two dozen teams are complete idiots. When people say the Twins are crappy at drafting, I agree with them. When people say the Twis are EXCEPTIONALLY bad at it, I say prove it, apples to apples.

    The issue with Revere is ceiling and asset allocation. He has a career 664 OPS and plays corner OF. He has 6 WAR in 7 seasons and now makes $7m in arbitration. That is the type of guy that is a dime a dozen in free agency. You have no business using a first round pick on him.

     

    So while he may have more WAR than several guys, give me an upside starter that has less chance of making the big leagues, but if he does we have 7 years of control and the potential for the first few free agent years.

     

    And I don't think this thought process has the benefit of hindsight at all. Ben Revere was never going to be the type of major league player the Twins could not afford or a star on a good team and that was known on draft day. To me that is the definition of a terrible pick.

     

    Lackey is a major FA signing that the Twins can't compete with? 2/32? We extended Hughes (and Nathan) for 3/42.

    Also, Kyle Hendricks is the Cubs ERA+ leader this year, acquired in trade for Ryan Dempster (signed to a 4/52 contract, just like Nolasco-Santana-Hughes).

    Another modest FA signing Jason Hammel is 3rd, behind Hendricks and Arrieta. Signed for 2/20 plus team option.

    An under-rated aspect of the Cubs rebuild has been their savvy trading:

     

    Miguel Montero

    Anthony Rizzo

    Dexter Fowler

    Jake Arrieta

    Pedro Strop

    Kyle Hendricks

    Addison Russell

    Travis Wood

    Carl Edwards

     

    Hector Rondon was a Rule 5 pickup.

     

    For the most part, they were able to hit on every one of their rebuilding trades. 

     

    An under-rated aspect of the Cubs rebuild has been their savvy trading:

     

    Miguel Montero

    Anthony Rizzo

    Dexter Fowler

    Jake Arrieta

    Pedro Strop

    Kyle Hendricks

    Addison Russell

    Travis Wood

    Carl Edwards

     

    Hector Rondon was a Rule 5 pickup.

     

    For the most part, they were able to hit on every one of their rebuilding trades. 

     

    look at that list compared to what the Twins have traded for...

     

    look at that list compared to what the Twins have traded for...

    Exactly. Though I also thought about the 1996-2007 Twins, a stretch where it seemed like Ryan won seemingly every trade. The 2006 team, arguably the pinnacle of that era, had the following players acquired via trade:

     

    Punto

    Bartlett

    Castillo

    Ford

    Casilla

    Santana (via Rule 5)

    Liriano

    Nathan

    Bonser

    Lohse

    Silva

     

    Adds up to 20-25 WAR that season.

     

    Compare that to this season:

    Nunez

    Escobar

    Murphy

    May

    Meyer

    Jepsen

    Milone

     

    Probably negative WAR at this point?

     

    this whole meme that the Cubs are only good because they have money and can ignore pitching in the draft is old. really. old. the Twins could have taken the money spent on three FAs, and bought one great one.....would you rather have a great one, or Hughes, Santana, and Nolasco right now? It is a matter of resource allocation.

     

    And, the Twins chose to choose HS guys....what if they had taken Trea Turner instead of Gordon? Same position, same draft, one is in the majors, one is not.

    Mike,

    I really liked Turner, partially just because I sway toward the great athletes.  I thought he was less risk too and of course he was going to get to the majors earlier.  I wanted them to take him but if we are fair, every mock draft had Gordon several spots ahead of Turner.

     

    The other point you made was basically the very old argument …. Why don’t the Twins just sign an ace?  If you want to be correct here, the appropriate context is why is this type of signing almost non-existent among teams in the same revenue class or lower?  To put this particular act of omission on the Twins is absolute bulls%!%.   There has been two such signings by teams with equal or less revenue than the Twins in the past 20 years.  Hampton by Colorado which was around 2002 and Grienke last year.  It a BIG stretch to include the Grienke signing because they just signed a billion dollar TV contract.

     

    Having said this, I think they actually good manage their payroll to make it feasible to sign an Ace or “near Ace” once Mauer is gone given the number of young players on the roster.   I think it is feasible but to call out the Twins for not doing it requires that one ignore how rare this is among small or mid-market teams.

    Edited by Major Leauge Ready

     

    Mike,

    I really liked Turner, partially just because I sway toward the great athletes.  I thought he was less risk too and of course he was going to get to the majors earlier.  I wanted them to take him but if we are fair, every mock draft had Gordon several spots ahead of Turner.

     

    The other point you made was basically the very old argument …. Why don’t the Twins just sign an ace?  If you want to be correct here, the appropriate context is why is this type of signing almost non-existent among teams in the same revenue class or lower?  To put this particular act of omission on the Twins is absolute bulls%!%.   There has been two such signings by teams with equal or less revenue than the Twins in the past 20 years.  Hampton by Colorado which was around 2002 and Grienke last year.  It a BIG stretch to include the Grienke signing because they just signed a billion dollar TV contract.

     

    Having said this, I think they actually good manage their payroll to make it feasible to sign an Ace or “near Ace” once Mauer is gone given the number of young players on the roster.   I think it is feasible but to call out the Twins for not doing it requires that one ignore how rare this is among small or mid-market teams.

     

    I understand your statement, but it's still a choice all those markets are making. I'm asking.....has signing a bunch of mediocre / bad / ok pitchers worked for this team? Maybe it's not the process, maybe it is who they decide to sign that is the issue....maybe the next GM will pick among the mediocre better than Ryan did the last 5 years.

     

    I understand your statement, but it's still a choice all those markets are making. I'm asking.....has signing a bunch of mediocre / bad / ok pitchers worked for this team? Maybe it's not the process, maybe it is who they decide to sign that is the issue....maybe the next GM will pick among the mediocre better than Ryan did the last 5 years.

    Has it worked out?  No, but when you say worked out, I think you mean did it make them competitors.  I don’t know the logic of those moves but anyone in that FO who believed Nolasco, Santana, and Hughes was going to makes them competitors should be tested for banned substances.   Personally, I think those moves were designed to not suck.   They had absolutely no pitching and those moves were designed to put a respectable product on the field during a rebuild regardless of if they admitted it was a rebuild.

     

    Granted, had they gone out and signed Scherzer or Lester and they would have been more fun to watch 1 out of 5 games but they would have had just as bad a record and maybe worse.  They also would have had huge commitments to a SP well past their prime about the time this club will be ready to compete.    Scherzer is under contract through his age 36 season and Lester through his age 37 season.  Maybe they hold up but if they are likely very expensive boat anchors about the time this team will be ready to contend.  

    It’s also very easy to say they should have gotten a top SP but who specifically?  In 2014 when they really needed to do something, the only Ace type free agent SPs was Tanaka.  Were we going to outbid the Yankees?  The year before in 2013 it was Grienke and Sanchez.  Grienke signed through his age 38 season.  Would that have been wise?  Were we going to outbid the Dodgers?  Sanchez had a career year in 2013, a very good year in 2014, was bad in 2015 and terrible in 2016.  Would that have “worked out”. 

     

    It’s a lot easier to say they should have just signed a legit Ace than it is to actually get it done.  Who specifically should they have signed in 2013,14, or 15?  We can go all the way back to 2012.  CJ Wilson and Mark Buehrle were the top free agent SPs in 2012.  Would they have made this terrible team good?

     

    The issue with Revere is ceiling and asset allocation. He has a career 664 OPS and plays corner OF. He has 6 WAR in 7 seasons and now makes $7m in arbitration. That is the type of guy that is a dime a dozen in free agency. You have no business using a first round pick on him.

    So while he may have more WAR than several guys, give me an upside starter that has less chance of making the big leagues, but if he does we have 7 years of control and the potential for the first few free agent years.

    And I don't think this thought process has the benefit of hindsight at all. Ben Revere was never going to be the type of major league player the Twins could not afford or a star on a good team and that was known on draft day. To me that is the definition of a terrible pick.

     

     

    So who should the Twins have picked in 2007? Why did so many teams fail to find that high upside starter you wanted the Twins to select in 2007? They sure as heck tried. In Revere's draft,, high school pitchers were taken three picks after Revere (Smoker), and again at  #42, #44, #47, #53, #58, #60, and #62, if I looked carefully and remembered right. Not a single one of those guys ever pitched an inning of MLB baseball, I'm fairly sure.

     

    If the next five teams picked guys that gave them ZERO WAR, and no HS pitcher worked out over the next 30 picks or so, can you label the Revere pick as a bad one? And if so, doesn't this suggest that the Twins are in fact not EXCEPTIONALLY bad at this drafting thing? Would Berrios, Stewart, Gonsalves, Romero, Thorpe, and Jorge qualify as high upside starters? I get the theory and the appeal of a high school pitcher who might eventually take a spot at the front of the rotation over a lower ceiling college guy, and I think the Twins do too, but they're not always available, especially later on in the round.

    Edited by birdwatcher

    So who should the Twins have picked in 2007? Why did so many teams fail to find that high upside starter you wanted the Twins to select in 2007? They sure as heck tried. In Revere's draft,, high school pitchers were taken three picks after Revere (Smoker), and again at #42, #44, #47, #53, #58, #60, and #62, if I looked carefully and remembered right. Not a single one of those guys ever pitched an inning of MLB baseball, I'm fairly sure.

     

    If the next five teams picked guys that gave them ZERO WAR, and no HS pitcher worked out over the next 30 picks or so, can you label the Revere pick as a bad one? And if so, doesn't this suggest that the Twins are in fact not EXCEPTIONALLY bad at this drafting thing? Would Berrios, Stewart, Gonsalves, Romero, Thorpe, and Jorge qualify as high upside starters? I get the theory and the appeal of a high school pitcher who might eventually take a spot at the front of the rotation over a lower ceiling college guy, and I think the Twins do too, but they're not always available, especially later on in the round.

    I am not tying to revisionist look back. I don't think it was a player selection issue, this guy turned out and that guy didn't. Revere was never going to be a difference maker. Neither was Wimmers. Or the relievers for that matter.

     

    We should focus on areas that we can't solve in free agency. Low ceiling Corner OF, 1B, relievers, we can buy those. Catcher, SP, SS. Not so much

     

    Haha let's not open that can of worms.  I wanted Giolito as well.

     

     

    You guys are geniuses! ;) Half the teams in baseball lacked the scouting projection skill you and stevj apparently possess, because they missed out on Giolito, Seager, and Russell in the top half of that draft.

     

    Who should the Twins take this year, you guys?  :)

     

    I am not tying to revisionist look back. I don't think it was a player selection issue, this guy turned out and that guy didn't. Revere was never going to be a difference maker. Neither was Wimmers. Or the relievers for that matter.

    We should focus on areas that we can't solve in free agency. Low ceiling Corner OF, 1B, relievers, we can buy those. Catcher, SP, SS. Not so much

     

     

    I guess that makes sense. So you're fine with Gordon, Berrios, Jay if he pans out, but not so much Kiriloff I imagine.

    Edited by birdwatcher

    I guess that makes sense. So you're fine with Gordon, Berrios, Jay if he pans out, but not so much Kiriloff I imagine.

    More or less. I liked those other picks better than Kiriloff. But I like Kiriloff better than Revere. Some think this kid is really going to hit. A really good hitting corner OF is bordering on a player we can't sign in free agency.

     

    But Revere is a guy that we can afford his ceiling. The report I read in Wimmers when we drafted him was FB that tops 90-91 and good command. We can sign guys like Pelfrey and Correia all day.

    You guys are geniuses! ;) Half the teams in baseball lacked the scouting projection skill you and stevj apparently possess, because they missed out on Giolito, Seager, and Russell in the top half of that draft.

     

    Who should the Twins take this year, you guys?  :)

    Kind of a rude response. They wanted a different guy. We are here to bs about the team... What is the issue?

     

    Sure.  But here is another point:  They did not need Gordon, because they have another young shortstop who at the same age and also 2.7 years younger at the same league had a .780 OPS (and the previous season in A had an .813 OPS vs Gordon's .696)

     

    What drives me crazy about the way that the Twins spend their resources, be it high round draft picks, free agents, waiver wire pickups and what not, is that there seems to be no plan at all.   You cannot pick 3-4 centerfielders with the first draft pick together because you end up in the Span-Revere-Hicks-Buxton oopsie mess.  You cannot horde SS the same way, especially when you have glaring weaknesses in the organization is positions like LHSP and C.

     

    That "best player available" situation is just ridiculous.  Because in reality, is not the best player available, is who the Twins' braintrust thinks is the best player available, and more times than not, it really is not.

     

    It there's one thing you can pick up from watching Twins prospects the past 5 years, it's that you don't know who will pan out and who won't. Not having a redundancy in the minors is insane. Every team drafts SS and CF like crazy because those guys often move to other positions. I'm not sure who you're referencing with the "already had a SS" narrative but if it's Polanco, it's the perfect example of why you keep taking SS. Though the MLB crunch at 2B and 3B has Polanco playing SS to finish out this lost season, he does not profile to be able to play the position long-term. That's why you get Gordon and Vielma and all the other SS you have - you don't know who is going to stick at SS and SS is where you get the best athletes.

     

    What???? Taking CFers means that they won't turn out???? That doesn't even make sense if you're in middle school. And Span, Revere, Hicks and Buxton are hardly an indictment of the Twins drafting. All four have made the majors and you have a borderline all-star in Span, an average CF in Revere, a top prospect in Buxton and a useful platoon OF in Hicks. That's not a failure in drafting - go look at how many first round picks don't make the majors before complaining about that.

     

    Well yes, it is an opinion on who the best available player is - we all wish that there was a magic 8 ball that you would shake and it would tell you who that was or that the Twins had harnessed time travel and used it to see who would be good. Alas, that is science fiction.

     

    P.S. Go look at catchers drafted after the Twins first round picks. You would call those mistakes too. That's why teams take the best available player - there's no projecting with certainty in baseball so they take their best guess.




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