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    5th Starter Candidate: Alex Meyer


    Seth Stohs

    Yesterday, we looked at one candidate for the Minnesota Twins’ fifth starter job out of spring training, Mike Pelfrey. Today, we continue this series by looking at another candidate. He’s the tallest candidate, but he also has the biggest fastball and the most devastating slider. Can Alex Meyer stake claim to a spot in the Minnesota Twins starting rotation on Opening Day?

    Image courtesy of Mark J. Rebilas, USA Today

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    The Background

    Alex Meyer was drafted by the Boston Red Sox in the 20th round of the 2008 MLB Draft. He was offered $2 million but chose to go pitch at the University of Kentucky. Three years later, he received that $2 million bonus anyway. He was drafted by the Nationals with their first round pick, the 23rd overall pick, seven picks before the Twins took Levi Michael.

    The Nationals had him start in Low-A where he made 18 starts before moving up to High-A for seven more starts. Following the season, the Twins acquired the right-hander in a deal that sent Denard Span to the Nationals. In 2013, he made 13 starts for New Britain (in which he struck out 84 batters in 70 innings). Unfortunately, he felt some shoulder discomfort and pitched only in rehab the rest of the season. He went to the Arizona Fall League where he made seven starts to get more work.

    It was clear that the Twins had one main goal for Alex Meyer in 2014: to keep him healthy through the season, and they were successful. He moved up to Rochester and made 27 starts. He went 7-7 with a 3.52 ERA and a 1.38 WHIP. In 130.1 innings, he struck out 153 (10.6 per nine), but he also walked 64 (4.4 per nine). Following the season, Meyer was added to the Twins 40-man roster.

    The Hope

    The Twins last had a true #1, ace starting pitcher in 2008 when Johan Santana was still with the team. Yes, Francisco Liriano had an ace-like season in 2010, but he was unable to show any consistency from year to year, much less month to month. When the Twins acquired Meyer, he immediately gave Twins fans a hope for a future ace, whether that was fair or not.

    Meyer is blessed with good pitches. He has a fastball that sits between 95 and 98 and has even hit triple-digits a few times. He is known to have a devastating slider. With his height, he is able to release his pitches just a little bit closer to the plate which makes it jump on hitters. He has an improving, though still inconsistent changeup. He credited Rochester teammate Yohan Pino for helping him with that pitch.

    We love strikeouts. Missed bats are exciting. We don’t want quick outs. We want strikeouts. One thing that Alex Meyer can do is get strikeouts. In 2012, he struck out 9.7 per nine. In 2013, he struck out 11.0 per nine innings. In 2014, he averaged 10.6 strikeouts per nine innings in AAA.

    The Concerns

    Walks will haunt, right? After walking 3.1 per nine in 2012 and 3.4 per nine in 2013, Meyer walked 4.4 per nine inning at Rochester in 2014. Baseball people often say that for tall pitchers it is more difficult and takes longer to find a consistent release point for their pitches. There are many such examples.

    In an interview on 1500ESPN at Twins Fest, Meyer was asked about that theory. He said that he is fully aware of it, but he finds it to just be an excuse for not throwing strikes. That’s a very responsible, accountable response to the theory. Regardless, for Meyer to be an effective starting pitcher in the big leagues, he is going to have to harness and control his terrific stuff. Moving up the baseball ladder means facing hitters who are generally more patient and don’t swing at as many pitches outside the zone. Big league hitters will make him throw strikes.

    One concern is that Meyer, because of the number of walks and strikeouts, needs to throw a lot of pitches. He frequently was able to only go five innings or less because he was at 85 to 100 pitches by that point. In 11 of his starts, he failed to get an out in the sixth inning. The Twins have a rule that if a pitcher throws more than 30 pitches in an inning, he will not come out for the next inning. That is a pretty standard rule across baseball. He had a three-start stretch in mid-June where he couldn’t get to the fourth inning because of pitch count. He followed that with a stretch of five straight games in which he went exactly six innings, something he did just one more time over his final eight starts.

    That leads to many people wondering if he wouldn’t best be served working out of the bullpen, something he would not be against. However, the goal at this time remains for him to be a starter, and hopefully a frontline starter.

    More Hope and Unfair Comps

    If he does not win the fifth starter job, it is possible that Meyer could begin his career as a bullpen arm. That is how the Twins eased Johan Santana onto the roster (obviously under different – Rule 5 – circumstances), and he turned out well. Meyer could replace Anthony Swarzak as a long reliever and work three to five innings when necessary. Of course, he could also go to the back-end of the bullpen and be a more dominant set-up man. He pitched an inning in relief for Team USA in the Futures Game at Target Field in 2014.

    Many want to compare Meyer to 6-10 Randy Johnson who was just voted into the Hall of Fame last month. He debuted as a 24 year old in 1988 with the Expos. In 1989, he pitched 160.2 innings between Montreal and Seattle and walked 5.4 batters per nine innings while striking out just 7.3 per nine. He then led the league in walks from 1990 through 1992. He finally put it all together in his age-29 season of 1993. He cut his walks in half and became an annual Cy Young candidate, winning five awards and finishing second three more times. It’s fun to compare what Meyer could be to what Randy Johnson was. Is it fair? I don’t know. Comparing a prospect with zero big league innings to a Hall of Famer is fine, as long as fans realize that that result is pretty rare.

    In other words, patience is a must for Meyer, the Twins and Twins fans. So many look at the fact that he turned 25 in January and think that he’s now too old to be a prospect. People really need to stop that. The guy has immense talent, but he does still have things to work on. If he is called up by midseason, he’s still up at 25 and can have a strong career for 12 to 15 years. The Twins need to not listen to any of that and do what is in the player’s best short- and long-term interest.

    Meyer Percentage

    So, if I were to guess the odds that Alex Meyer begins the season as the Twins fifth starter, I would probably put the odds at close to 10%. I think there is a slightly better chance that he starts the season in the Twins bullpen, just due to numbers. If he begins the year in Rochester, this would allow him to work as a starter, getting more innings, working in, and hopefully out of, more situations and continuing to work on his third and fourth pitches.

    Either way, I have little doubt that he will be up in the big leagues before June, whether it is due to injury or ineffectiveness in the rotation or in the bullpen.

    When Jeremy and I asked Meyer in November what his goals are for 2015, the pensive Meyer responded by saying, “Every year I’ve set goals, and this year I won’t. I want to let them come to me. I don’t want to set any expectations because you never know what can happen. I’m going to go out there, wherever they send me, whether it’s Minnesota, Rochester, or in Cedar Rapids. I just want to go out there and pitch as well as I can, continue to get better as a pitcher, and whenever the big leagues calls, you want to make sure you’re ready. I just want to go out there and throw as well as I can. I just hope I can help the team sometime during the year, whether it’s from Game 1 in April or whenever that time would be.”

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    Featured Comments

    Seth,

     

    I am likely more cynical than you. But you give Meyer a month or more in aaa and I think some in the twins brass get giddy about delaying him yet again. The temptation of him needing to work on something could arise.

     

    Yup, that is pretty cynical. What is the value at this point in delaying anything with Meyer? And, then why isn't Arcia still in the minor leagues?

     

    There are things that he needs to work on. There's no question about that. That has nothing to do with service time or costs or anything. 

    Seth,

     

    I think the Meyer/Arcia comp is misguided. Meyer is a potential ace and boras is his agent. Arcia does not have the upside or the same agent

     

    Do you not think the twins factor in service time and control into these decisions?

    I think his point was at 25, we are already due to get his whole prime.  Some would argue the prime is even earlier and we wasted last year. 

     

    I still think he doesn't make the team out of ST.  I think service time WILL factor into it, whether it should or not.  And I think they have excuses they can use to try and justify it.

    Edited by jimmer

    Seth,

     

    I think the Meyer/Arcia comp is misguided. Meyer is a potential ace and boras is his agent. Arcia does not have the upside or the same agent

     

    Do you not think the twins factor in service time and control into these decisions?

    I think Arcia does have the upside.   My expectations for Arcia and Mauer in 2015 are quite high.  Arcia had a .999 OPS in AAA and .955 in AA.    Meyer had a .352 ERA in AAA.   Good and probably deserving of a call up late last year but hardly breaking down the door. .  

    As we saw in 2011-13, innings pitched per start matters. You need a consistent 5 plus, preferably 6 plus innings from all 5 starters in order to avoid a thin bench. Why did Gardy drive me crazy with three catchers and 13 pitchers on a 25 man roster? He didn't have the durability and command he needed from the two positions who touch the ball more than all of the other players on the diamond combined.

     

    I agree with the sentiment that Meyer needs to be in the bigs in 2015. As a reliever.... Maybe he can learn enough to improve his command to become a starter, or maybe he unseats Perkins, or maybe he's a fine setup man, or maybe his arm falls off, but at least he'll provide some value in the trade.

    I think the odds of Meyer becoming a top pitcher are higher than Arcia being a top hitter. Those big pitcher contracts are a lot riskier as well. The twins have been a lot more patient with pitchers than they have hitters, I believe cost control is one reason why.

    I don't think Meyer should get anywhere near the pen.  He's a starter all the way, keep him that way.  I can see Nolasco getting 5 or 6 starts and the door hitting him in the ass as Meyer boards a plane.  I want to see at least 20 starts from Meyer this year and 30 next. 

    I don't think Meyer should get anywhere near the pen.  He's a starter all the way, keep him that way.  I can see Nolasco getting 5 or 6 starts and the door hitting him in the ass as Meyer boards a plane.  I want to see at least 20 starts from Meyer this year and 30 next. 

    Change Nolasco to Milhone in your sentence.

     

     

    I agree with the sentiment that Meyer needs to be in the bigs in 2015. As a reliever.... Maybe he can learn enough to improve his command to become a starter, or maybe he unseats Perkins, or maybe he's a fine setup man, or maybe his arm falls off, but at least he'll provide some value in the trade.

    How does one learn command as a reliever?  Why would anyone want a reliever with command issues?  Why does anyone want a setup man with command issues and why would a reliever with command issues have value in a trade?   Maybe his future is in the pen but I would think command comes from more innings pitched rather than fewer.

    I don't think Meyer should get anywhere near the pen.  He's a starter all the way, keep him that way.  I can see Nolasco getting 5 or 6 starts and the door hitting him in the ass as Meyer boards a plane.  I want to see at least 20 starts from Meyer this year and 30 next.

     

    id love to see that too, but unfortunately I doubt it will happen. If Nolasco gets out pitched by Gibson, May and Meyer, Nolasco's trade value will be zero and his contract is still too large to eat. The only way Nolasco isn't a starter for the Twins in 2015 is if he's injured. If Nolasco has the season of his life in 2015, he might be tradeable in 2016.

    I really don't understand the obsession over Meyer's age. He JUST turned 25, and because he wasn't throwing off a ML mound by age 19-22 he is old, he's wasted half his potential career, he's already fired too many bullets and is begging to run out of ammunition already, he only has four years before he's a soft tosser, etc, etc, etc.

     

    Yes, most hall of fame SP were up early. But you don't draft and develop hall of fame players. You draft and develop players period. Once in a while you get a special guy who is HOF caliber. There are a slew of guys who tantalize and arrive at an early age only to prove average or blow out an arm, or just lose "whatever".

    How does one learn command as a reliever?  Why would anyone want a reliever with command issues?  Why does anyone want a setup man with command issues and why would a reliever with command issues have value in a trade?   Maybe his future is in the pen but I would think command comes from more innings pitched rather than fewer.

    it appears he has a good slider, and a good fastball, but doesn't have command of a third pitch. Tough to pitch to hitters a second and third time without a third pitch to keep them honest.

     

    I wasn't clear in my value comment, I mean, the Twins traded a good Centerfielder for a prospect who has yet to bear fruit. I think Meyer can contribute to the major league club immediately as a reliever, and still has potential to become a starter with the major league club

    Meyer shows outstanding overall ability, top of the rotation potential, and an improving chaneup last season, his FIRST in AAA, along with a boatload of SO's. But there are inconsistencies still, as you might expect from a young pitcher. Inconsistencies aren't just about tons of walks or getting shelled. Correcting them is also about being consistent enough to economize enough to last more than 4-5 IP per start.

     

    Meyer has THREE milb seasons. Three. And 2013 was partially interrupted. Have there been injury concerns? Yes. But unless there is something hiding, they have been nagging, not serious. And he DID show growth and development last season, despite an IP limit and a couple inconsistent stretches.

     

    I believe he's a real candidate for the #5 spot. But I also believe the also very talented May, who finished pretty strong last season, leads over Meyer right NOW. Milone is LH, has a pretty solid but somewhat short history, but is not as talented as Meyer, nor figures to be a long term fixture in the way Meyer does. So right NOW, I'm thinking Meyer and Millone are kind of 50-50 as the second place favorite. I don't buy in to Pelfrey not just due to the past, but because I don't see him as part of the future.

     

    I am torn as to Meyer, if not in the initial rotation, gaining experience on the ML level out of the pen and sliding in to a rotation spot at some point, or staying stretched out and working a consistent 5th day and consistent IP at Rochester. I can see advantages both ways.

    On topic, but a little to the left, I'm less concerned at this point who is the 5th SP out of ST vs who is in the rotation for the second half of the season.

     

    No disrespect to Nolasco, who I actually like as a nice mid-rotation starter, but the best thing that could happen would be for Nolasco to pitch well enough to have real trade value around mid-season. Forget the return on such a trade, (possible any return would be tied to how much, if any, of the contact the Twins picked up), the money savings assists in future investments as well as opening a rotation spot for May or Meyer, or possibly Berrios or Duffey or Lee, etc, as the overall rebuild of the rotation/team continues.

    On topic, but a little to the left, I'm less concerned at this point who is the 5th SP out of ST vs who is in the rotation for the second half of the season.

    No disrespect to Nolasco, who I actually like as a nice mid-rotation starter, but the best thing that could happen would be for Nolasco to pitch well enough to have real trade value around mid-season. Forget the return on such a trade, (possible any return would be tied to how much, if any, of the contact the Twins picked up), the money savings assists in future investments as well as opening a rotation spot for May or Meyer, or possibly Berrios or Duffey or Lee, etc, as the overall rebuild of the rotation/team continues.

    Kind of on this topic, I would like us to give the job to the guy we think will be the best in june. I don't want a typical slow start because we made a decisions based on options or scholarship, then bring up the guy we know is better in a month. We have waited four years to watch good baseball.




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