It's not whining, it's called discussing the team's woes. The 4 years plus one week refers to poor baseball being played. Cause it's been that long. I didn't say the rebuilding process has been going on that long. I wasn't even talking about the rebuilding process. As far as the rebuilding argument you just threw in there, I think I've been pretty consistent on that. There's a thread called:' When Is It Time To Take Action?' my response was, ' About two years ago, at least. When an injury plagued season was followed up by a really bad season.' That quote pretty is right in line with you saying rebuilding didn't start till after 2012. Now, it should have started earlier, it SHOULD have started after 2011 because 2011 was going to be a down year even without injuries and the team was getting old. But the team, like you, just blamed injuries and decided to hope the team would rebound. In any event, am I not acknowledging the injury riddled 2011 there? It was definitely a huge reason for our record, but hardly the only reason. I predicted we'd go 79-83 that season in my preseason pick before 2011 due to losing our middle IFs, jettisoning a good chunk of our bullpen, and regression by the rotation and Thome. This is after I had nailed the 2010 record during my preseason prediction for 2010.