USAFChief

The Twins started their dismantling of the roster with the Escobar trade on July 27th. After the games of July 27th, the Twins were 48-53. Cleveland, 56-46. At that point, Cleveland was on pace to win 89 games. The Twins would have need to make up 6 games in the win column over the final two months. The Twins were certainly not in good shape, but not out of it. And it's a bit convenient to use Cleveland's results now, which are known, to shape an argument about what should have been done then.

Please stop inventing exaggerated positions to me that I haven't taken. I haven't said the Twins "were good in July." We've been through this multiple times, but one more time... I have said i didn't think they deserved to have the season torpedo'd. They were playing better, got to within 5 games of the division, and could reasonably have expected to get Sano/Buxton/Santana back and producing. Add to that, by being a buyer instead of seller, and I still think they had a chance. Instead, the 40 man was gutted, and filled with mostly dreck. There is pretty much nothing left on the 40 man that can reasonably be expected to provide significant help in 2019, sans Buxton. They've taken a team that had snuck into the playoffs in 2017, was largely expected to be a contender this year by most here at TD, and turned it into a team that I'm hard pressed to describe as better than KC, Detroit, or certainly Chicago. You may disagree, and that's fine. But there's nothing inconsistent about my position. I have long held to the position that there is nothing more overrated than prospects. Particularly prospects in the low minors. I could care less. If one or two of them end up being a significant contributor somewhere down the road, great. But I'll give the front office little credit for that, either. They will have gotten lucky, as will pretty much any front office when they acquire low minors prospects not within the top 5 or 10 in multiple ratings, and even that is somewhat of a crapshoot, as certainly we Twins fans should know without a shadow of a doubt.

Where did I say I believed the team was bad in July? That's your position, not mine.

I didn't like stripping the 40 man in July. I don't like the status of the 40 man today. There's nothing inconsistent about that.

Add Polanco to the list of Twins players for whom 2018 has been a year to forget.

If only the Twins had a veteran player. A player with catcher experience who doesn't play every day. Maybe someone who has been with the team for over a decade. Maybe such a player could be expected to provide some leadership. Alas, I guess the Twins will have to get their leadership from outside sources, for the final couple months of a lost season.

I think you might have this backwards. Shouldn't the "trade 'em all!" crowd be defending the results? How did that help the Minnesota Twins? You're glad we now have space for Gimenez, Belisle, Field, et al? Surely the difference between Escobar, Pressly and Dozier and the state of the organization must be more than we see, right? Or was a FSL pennant the end game?

Which "young 'uns" are they playing? Last night's lineup featured one player under the age of 25...Jorge Polanco. Velasquez was the only pitcher under 25. And for the record, not everyone wanted this roster.

You realize you're responding to two separate quotes, from two separate posters here, right? As for the portion I wrote: the 40 man roster in 2016 looked a great deal better than it does today. In 2016, Sano/Buxton/Kepler/Rosario/Berrios et al were in the big leagues, 2 years younger, and still looked like a solid corps on the verge of emerging. There were good, major league quality pieces on the 40 man such as Dozier, Escobar, Nunez. Mauer was two years younger. The 40 man in 2016 was a great deal better than today. If there's a comparison, it'd be to the 1980's, not 2016, in terms of 40 man rosters largely bereft of plausible upside. And yes...I'm older than 2.

I can tell you one place where they're getting it wrong: take a look at the current 40 man roster, two years into their tenure. Arguably worse than at any point in my lifetime. And none of what young talent they do have has been signed to a long term contract. Not one single player. Maybe they've made improvements behind the scenes, but you'll have a hard time convincing me it's made any positive difference to date. And maybe they have a strong lower minor league system. We've had that in the recent past, too. And as Twins fans, nobody should have to tell us a strong lower minor league system isn't a guarantee of anything. It's only been two years, I get that. And they weren't handed a healthy organization. But it's reasonable to conclude the organization is in worse shape now than when they took over.

And there were multiple PAs by Twins hitters that could have changed the game too. And even that is granting that Buxton makes that catch, which is easy to speculate about, but pretty difficult to guarantee. Balls fell with Buxton playing CF too. I think everyone agrees defense is important. And Buxton is a very good center fielder. But you cannot hit at his level and be an asset.

FSL Flags Fly Forever.

I’m hoping for results. The rest is pretty meaningless to me.

Fresno State won 10 games last year, including a bowl game. They returned most of their team, and are considered to have an outside shot at a New Years Day bowl this year. This is a nice win against a good G5 team,

From where I sit, I see they transformed the Twins into a team that has featured Grossman and Forsythe at cleanup hitter this month, two years into their tenure. I don’t consider that progress.

Ski-U-Mah! Big fan of Fleck. Positive energy, and recruits that look like they can play. Winfield Sportscenter top 10 number 1 two weeks in a row?

As pointed out in last night’s game thread: 2018 Joe Mauer .273/.345./371 Robbie Grossman .260/.350/.367 Virtually identical. Is there also a “looming Robbie Grossman decision?”

or HBP.

And may touch the ball on defense once or twice, or even not at all. Every play he makes may be routine in nature and every MLB player would have been capable of it. On offense, he has the chance to change the score every PA.

Can you picture the Twins signing Mauer and adding a 1B/DH? IMO, part of the problem with signing Mauer is they WON'T upgrade. They'll go with Mauer at 1b, and be done with it. And we'll see Ehire Adrianza play games at 1B again, with Robbie Grossman your DH.

Maybe. But I don't think Target Field has anything to do with it. Left field dimensions at the Metrodome: 343 to left, 385 to the power alley. Left field dimensions at Target Field: 339 to left, 377 to the power alley. The fence in Target Field is one foot higher. He only had the one season where a good number of fly balls snuck into the left field seats at the dome. We're both speculating, of course, but I doubt playing in Fenway would have significantly altered his career numbers. Perhaps a few more doubles, and a few less singles.

As to back on topic, it depends on what you want. If your goal is a farewell, feel good tour for Mauer, then take the safe route, which few will criticize, and give Mauer a one yr contract. Accommodate Joe Mauer and his fan base, but deprioritize winning. If, however, your goal is to compete at the highest levels, find a full time first baseman who moves you toward that goal. My personal option would be Donaldson at third, Sano at first. It might bomb spectacularly, but it also might succeed spectacularly. Mauer offers no such upside.

If I’m the GM, I start thinking about returning the Twins to relevance, stat.

Thanks.

Link?