TheLeviathan
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Everything posted by TheLeviathan
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That's a fair analysis, it's more a gut thing for you then which I don't have a problem with. The two are pretty close and we both seem to agree that it isn't purely the quality of the pitching staff that gets you there. It sure as hell helps but it isn't as simple as some here are making it. So I can respect that opinion.
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To be fair, I didn't do that because I also removed Timmy Lincecum's numbers. Which I think is being more than fair to the Giants considering he was a full-time starter for them. But if you pulled Stras out of Washington they are probably more like a 3.33 ERA team, which is still as good as the SF top 8!!! None of the regular season stats show SF as a clearly better pitching staff. And that's despite SF having the second best pitcher's park in all of baseball compared to Cincy as the 8th worst and Wash in the middle of the pack. The point I'm making is that there isn't much of a gap between the top 8 and the team ERA because even in the regular season you tend to use your best players most often. The contention that the playoffs is more starters, less pen and none of the lesser guys are relevant therefore eliminating regular season team stats is foolish. The lesser guys pitch less innings in the regular season and their actual impact on team stats is far more minimal than people think. Lincecum is the prime suspect for SF's gap, not their scrubs. Team stats are a perfectly valid way to compare pitching talent. By pretty much every measure I've seen, SF was not the best pitching staff going in and it certainly wasn't clear that they were. And even if the theory of "best pitching staff wins" - why is Washington sitting out while St. Louis advances? Better yet, someone please explain to me the 2011 St. Louis Cardinals.
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By all means - let's see the basis upon which you have determined the Giants are the best pitching team. Mind you, this also means it should work for last year. The year before. Etc. I look forward to you actually putting in some thought. Jerk my chain? Was the bullpen comment the same? You're posting unresearched stupidity and getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar. I'm basing the assessment of "best" pitching staff on statistics gleaned from the best sample size we have (the regular season). What are you basing it off of? (Cute also, now that it's being pointed out, that 3rd and 4th starters count too. Care to imagine what percentage of regular season team stats is compromised by your top four starters and top four bullpen arms? Which, to help you with the math, is 8 out of likely 11 or 12 spots? Perhaps you should study your careless Jeff Gray remark before you keep arguing that regular season team stats don't matter when you've included those that do matter as being your top four starter and top four bullpen arms. Here's a hint: Team top 8 ERA 3.30 Total: 3.68 Team top 8 ERA 3.17 Total 3.34 Team top 8 ERA 2.99 Total 3.33 Only one of those three teams had a real disparity. In fact, your Giants (even with pulling the filler out), were still not as good in ERA. But by all means, put up or shut up. And don't bring Jeff Gray wins stats into this please. Pretty amusing for you to get haughty about better metrics when you cited the number of wins for Jeff gray in this conversation.
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I'm bothered by your insistence on a stupid premise to back up an erroneous theory. Care to throw Jeff Gray around some more or did that one little bit hit home at least? Who is the Giants fifth pitcher? Lincecum? Zito? or Vogelsong? If you put an iota of thought into your next post you'll probably say Lincecum, who, for many people would not have been teh fifth starter most of the season. Either way it doesn't change the fact that SF's best pitcher this postseason was their number 3 starter. And their number 4 has been better than 2. Next stupid assertion please.... The Giants are averaging 3.5 innings per game from their bullpen. That's compared to 2.87 innings per game in the regular season. Do you even try to look up the nonsense you're spouting? Significantly different than you how apparently perceive it....yes. Could you at least try and fact check your nonsense?
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Yup, if you want to maximize trade value and open a spot for Parmalee - trade Willingham. That's been the best play since July. -
Cincy had the best combination. They had the league's best bullpen and comparable starters. Cueto-Latos-Bailey were absolutely comparable to Cain-Bum-Vogelsong. And the bullpen was a clear Cincy advantage. When Cueto went down it hurt, but what might have happened if St. Louis didn't beat a superior Washington pitching staff? I could easily point to multiple teams from the last few years that won over superior pitching teams. Not to mention your Atlanta example back when they used to say "pitching gets you to the postseason, hitting wins it"
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So....you're going to continue this absurd notion? And to do it you cite the number of wins Jeff friggin Gray had? The Twins team ERA with Gray: 4.77. Team ERA without Gray: 4.73. Give me a frickin break. Fifth starters and mop-up guys aren't dramatically affecting season team stats any more than they are in the playoffs. The fact is, Cincy's key bullpen guys and best starters were as good (and I would argue better) than San Fran. Washington was better than St. Louis in both of these departments as well and lost. And we're only using this year, if you want to open up the last 5-10 years I could further bury this notion. SF is here for the same reason STL has won several titles the last few years with inferior overall talent to other playoff teams - they've had some guys catch fire, they've caught some enormous breaks, and they have some nice talent guiding them. But the idea that "best pitching staff = world series" is just stupid. Nothing about Barry Zito winning two huge games, a guy in Vogelsong that no one around here would call an "ace" has been dominant this postseason, and that their inept offense would score enough to help them win against good pitching has anything to do with how good you think Matt Cain and Bum are.
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Holy gods dude, take an extra minute or two and make sure what you're posting is intelligible.
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Except that Cincy BEAT the Giants top starters. It was the backend of the rotation that helped lead them saving that series and then Cain finished it off. I'm saying it's not as simple as saying "best pitching wins", because that clearly isn't how it plays out. And dismissing team stats as a way to maintain that argument makes no sense. Stl beat a team with better pitching. Hell, they beat another team in the wildcard with better team starting pitching. (Again, a case were the top rotation guys did not pitch the key games)
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No, but they are who we thought they were. Let's face it.....Other than then the SF win, the Vikings victories have come against some very mediocre teams. They'll be in the middle of the pack this year, like 8-8 or 7-9, and will pick about 14th, 15th in the draft. Certainly an improvement on last year. Exactly, looking purely at wins and losses is foolish. The fact is, the Vikes were lucky to beat the Jags, the Cards let them win a game they didn't deserve, and the Detroit special teams handed us another. They could easily be 2-6 without some significant luck. We're not looking at an improved team, we're looking at an equally ****ty team as last year with luck swung the other direction. Which means now our ****ty team will draft in the middle of each round rather than the top it needs. Ponder is terrible and anyone wanting to argue it's a lack of skill players around him needs to be punched repeatedly in the face. They have the best pair of skill players in the league. It's a dropoff after that, but he's got talent, enough with that excuse please.
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Stras was shut down and Cueto had an untimely injury.....your point? The point I was annoyed by was the suggestion that team stats don't matter because only your top guys pitch in the postseason and SF has clearly the best top guys. 1) Their top guys are comparable with two teams that were eliminated earlier than them. If not teams eliminated earlier were better and 2) Not just your top guys pitch as Barry Zito has demonstrated this postseason. So it's a ridiculous argument that none of your points do anything to support.
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It's the same defensive players from last year but one really (Smith), so this shouldn't be a shock. The offense has been terrible - one broken run and one nice throw to Harvin and that's about it. He's throwing floaters, locking in on receivers, and doing little to recognize hot reads on blitzes. The defense has been on the field for what feels like forever since the second half of Arizona. It's ridiculous to suggest that anything with this team is a lock when the offense is this inept. And, like the broadcast has been saying - it features two of the best skill players in the league and it still can't get traction.
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Did you even look at anything before you posted this? Talk about meaningless: Cueto has a chance to be the NL Cy Young. (Which he did, BTW, in a much worse home park for pitching than anyone on SF) Latos and Bailey were pretty comparable with Vogelsong and Bumgartner too. Zimmerman and Gio are both outstanding pitchers. The Cincy bullpen was ridiculous in the regular season. All that and the fact that SF's fifth starter most of the season (Barry Zito) has pitched well in two key games. I could keep going with this post but I've put more time, effort, and thought into than you earned with that retort. Yeesh.
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Watching them flounder against the Bucs at home on a short rest week even going to dent this stupid take? Hell, their best plays have been "throw it up and pray" moves that have worked two out of three times.
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Yeah, it's a crapshoot. Last I checked the Nats and the Reds were the best teams this season in team ERA. The Braves were ahead of the Giants too. So where does all this crap about best pitching staff come from? The truth is, all it takes is a fluke or two to dramatically shift a series and a playoff structure. As Twins fans, we should all be very familiar with that. In the regular season those flukes balance out, in a 10 days worth of games they make the results much more of a coin flip.
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Drastic cutting without thinking is a mistake. Blind defense with an unwillingness to cut is an even bigger mistake.
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I didn't even get past the first line of this before I stopped reading. Carroll and Span for Castro? You're closer to getting Juan friggin Castro than Starlin with that package.
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Yeah I've always been a big fan of Marcum. I'd be content with him as the best addition to this staff, primarily because I think he may be the best pitcher available this offseason if he stays healthy. Yes, that means I think he may be better than Grienke if he can stay on the mound.
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Olney: Redmond Favorite for Marlins job?
TheLeviathan replied to Seth Stohs's topic in Other Baseball
Good luck with that whack-job ownership. -
"Never"? That seems like a rather ridiculous statement considering it wasn't the government that devised the method, just sank money into expanding it. The problem is that we are giving ridiculous bailouts to banks and corporations, but the true yearly budget crushers are social security, medicaid, etc. Unfortunately, both sides are winning just enough battles to screw us from both sides.
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Terry Ryan Interview - Submit Your Questions
TheLeviathan replied to John Bonnes's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
Lighten the F*** up. Jesus. I'm ragging Brock. -
Terry Ryan Interview - Submit Your Questions
TheLeviathan replied to John Bonnes's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
Whoa! Tomorrow? You say what ships out tomorrow? And this handbook you speak of, mayhap I could acquire it soon? Tomorrow even? -
Who has been playing outside for the Patriots? Deion Branch is a fine player, but he's no world beater. You can do just fine with the talent the Vikes have - it could be better, but the fault lies primarily with the QB.
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The issue isn't weapons, we have to get over that. Right now if you could pick any pair of skill players off of any team in the league.....is there anyone you'd pick over Peterson-Harvin? Maybe Andre Johnson-Foster or Jones-Roddy White? Honestly, I'll take our guys. So let's stop with that excuse Vikings fans, Ponder just isn't getting it done.
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Once again we win with just about zero help from our QB. Not good.
