Thrylos

I don't know... I just want the Twins to win it all again and not just "compete" in the regular season and suck in the post-season like they have been doing this millennium. I am pretty convinced that this cannot happen with the current front office and field leadership (it did not happen in the year they had the best record in baseball and the Cy Young and MVP winners plus a couple of other All-Stars.) So, unless they change who is running it and how this team is being run, I am afraid they cannot compete at a high level. Adding an arm or a bat or two or three will not cut it.... So I think that they could get rid of their aging player who have trading value and are in the end of their contracts (Morneau, Span, Willingham, Doumit, Carroll), get some young arms, get some of the kids up to play ball.

Not sure that the Twins should not spend that $ on SP instead. Quick note (and I am sure of this ) Youkilis' nationality is not Greek despite his Greek last name. He is Jewish Romanian. One of his ancestors changed it to "Youkilis" from "Weiner". I kid you not.

Liriano will probably sign for about $7-8 M a year. Look at the contract the Twins signed with Marquis, Capps and Pavano. There is no way that Liriano signs for $3M or so...

Marquis, too... (and he did better than the others last season )

Yeah, and the whole premise of this article turns out to be "overkill" as somehow Nick Nelson's pictured weapon for his "Bloodbath" should have been a hatchet instead of an axe. And, as it turns out, the clean-up from this bloodbath will only require a sponge rather than Zamboni. Hatchet? ok. Let's re-examine who was let go: 2 60+ year old guys and someone who was on the record saying that he will retire after this season. sounds more like a stapler than a hatchet Now the factthat they are over 60 yrs old makes them a bad coach? Ageism is against the law you know. No. The fact that they are in their sixties makes them close to retirement.

Hmm, I call BS. Nobody should complain, but they will. I would have no problem if they take another OF, if they trade some. They have way too many OFs in the system right now and they better start trading them before they become Angel Morales.

No, that's the info we already know. Look, you admit you are guessing. You don't know what happened and what people were told and for what reasons. This is both patronizing and absurd. Whiter integrity, indeed? You're framing the situation in your preferred narrative before you necessarily know the details, and then you're stridently thumping your chest about it. Ugh. Hold it. Yesterday. Scottie and Vavry were "fired". Today they resurfaced as 1st and 3rd base coaches. This is a FACT What happened yesterday was misleading and this speaks tons about Ryan's integrity (to make myself clear).

well... Liddle was a 50 some white man too as far as the call goes, 40+ is the protected age group legally. So the ones who stayed are in the same age group as the ones "whose contracts were not renewed"

Yeah, and the whole premise of this article turns out to be "overkill" as somehow Nick Nelson's pictured weapon for his "Bloodbath" should have been a hatchet instead of an axe. And, as it turns out, the clean-up from this bloodbath will only require a sponge rather than Zamboni. Hatchet? ok. Let's re-examine who was let go: 2 60+ year old guys and someone who was on the record saying that he will retire after this season. sounds more like a stapler than a hatchet

---Good question. Every time the subject of staff changes comes up, there's a chorus of demands for Molitor, Gladden, Hrbek, Brunansky, Carew, etc. But there's more to coaching and managing than telling war stories from your glory days. I need to see something more than "he played good for the Twins 2 or 3 decades ago" on a guy's resume to convince me he should be brought on board. I'll join the chorus, Gladden isn't a great radio announcer, but pretty good at calling a spade a spade and was a leader on the field during his playing days and seems to be player's mentor who can light a fire of encouragment. Bruno has had some of the guys he's worked with speak up for him. Omar Vizquel has already been credited for mentoring the younger guys during his playing days. Ivan Rodriguez is begging for a coaching job and was an absolute competitor. All of these guys would be a fresh of breath air if they joined the coaching staff, after games when Gardy might claim that the players "battled their tails off" I might even tend to believe him. ---I'm actually OK with Bruno because he has a track record of coaching success. Gladden does not. I'd be thrilled if we had guys play the game the way he did. Maybe he could get guys to play that way, but his personality and playing career alone are not a basis for assuming he can. The fact that you were a great player in an orchestra does not necessarily mean you will make a great conductor. The other guys you mentioned were not Twins. I'm not against former players. I'm against the idea that being a good Twins player once upon a time means you'll be a good coach today. Re: Gladden: there is an often skipped fact: Gladden was a below average player. His career slashline is: .270/.324/.382 once he stole 32 bases (but was caught 15 times). Great 1987 post-season, sucked in 1991 post-season So when he is on his high horse about Ben Revere...

Here. That is what will happen

Yes, That is what it means. More information here. What the Twins' did yesterday, was not "mishandling" it was "misleading". And I do suspect that other things came up. (like maybe the manager of the millennium threatening to quit if all of his buddies were not back and/or if Molitor was considered). And really: The goats for a 99 and 96 loss seasons: Stelly and Jerry Seriously. Net result. Think about that for a second and then think about integrity.

Thrylos, I thought you were pretty adamant that Molitor was "in" yesterday. I didn't see it based on his last tenure with the club. What happened? My thinking was that Gardy put his foot down for his main guys and squeezed one more year out of the Twins for him and his drinking buddies, the "reassignments" and firings were merely for public PR consumption that the Twins were "doing something." This talk that Gardy is on a short leash and could be out by May in 2013 is hogwash. When was the last time the Twins fired a manager? 26 years. When is the last time they fired a manager in the middle of the season? .......? Well... That was yesterday, this is today. Ryan publicly said that Molitor was not "a fit". I suspect that Gardy felt threatened or something. And yesterday 2 out the 4 stooges were out and were listed in the web site as "minor league instructors". Today is another day. I just hope that the fans are really outraged by this whole thing and that the owners really do what they need to do starting with Ryan. And speaking of Ryan, I just cannot imagine how he can look himself in the mirror after firing only Stelly and Jerry and letting the others be. This fact tells me a lot about what Mr Ryan is all about and I hope that all Twins' fans "get it" now...

In other words, Ryan should have taken off the word "interim" and added the word "former" on his title. I can live with that...

No and Yes. IF/OF instruction was informal. Jerry White was the OF coach. So here are your "new" Twins' coaches: Gardy: manager Andy: Pitching Scottie: Outfield/3B(or 1B) Vavry: Infield/1B (or 3B) and 3 openings: Glynn: Bench Bruno: Hitting Cuellar: Bullpen

I guess being in the Hall of Fame and winning a World Championship and being to the WS twice as a player are not good enough credentials, unlike those of Gardy, Andy (ok he won a WS), Vavry and Scotty...

Still happening but look at this Not something I made up... Ryan's words

It is still developing but it seems that 2 of the 5 coaching openings the Twins are having (BP, 1B, 3B, Hitting, Bench) will be filed by Scottie and Vavry. So only 3 new coaches, so just chairs were rearranged on the Titanic and 2 of the 3 who were fired (Stelly and Jerry) were the least responsible for this mess and the third (Liddly) was on his way to retirement. Smoke and mirrors. Smoke and mirrors Way to go Mr non-interim. Talking about accountability... Meanwhile, Mr non-interim called Paul Molitor "non-compatible" and admitted that he will not be in the running for a coach position, even though the Hall of Famer said he was interested.

Morneau should have been traded in the deadline... $14 million is way too much for his production. Willingham is making half as much and Parmelee can fit in. That $14 million would (and I hope will) go a long way toward fixing the rotation And if Morneau does not like the fact that Vavry was reassigned, he can follow him in his new team, if there will be one. He is a free agent after next season.

I asked this on another thread. I do know of one for sure, and it illustrates the current problem. Tom Kelly. 97,98,99,00 (with loss totals of 97,92,97,93). And who was the GM then?

I think that most people forgot how bad also was Terry Ryan as a GM in his first part of his first stint with the Twins. Ryan was a GM for the Twins from 1994-2006 and in 2012. During that 14 year stint the Twins Won the division 4 times finished second 1 time finished third 1 time finished fourth 4 times finished last 4 times and from those 14 seasons, the Twins have had winning records only 6. And he was fine with the contraction... and he undid what McPhail did. So tell me, as a whole is that "good" or "bad"?

To which I ask... Why the hell not? There are 5 higher-rated prospects in the Eastern League and 6 higher-rated prospects in the FSL. Or are we going with the theory that the best prospects are at the higher level...? Because then this discussion just got a lot more ridiculous. Just this, is an great example for the reasons I do not care about BA. You cannot rank the same guy 6th best in a AA league and 7th best in a high A league. Just ridiculous... Since you obviously couldn't figure it out, let me give you a scenario. Jurickson Profar, the #1 prospect in baseball plays in the Eastern League and is ranked #1 in the Eastern League with Dylan Bundy #2. Profar skips to the majors, or goes to the PCL. Dylan is then gets promoted to the International League where he is now the #1 prospect in the International League, while being the #2 prospect in the Eastern League. This is just a scenario, but it is how it works. Well... my objection is that: if a player did better (objectively) in a higher league, there is no way he should be ranked lower in a lower league. Arcia proved himself in AA. More than half of those who are ranked ahead of him at high A did not... BA is all about the nephelious concept of "potential" while turning their back to actual performance. I'd love to see what those guys who were ranked ahead of him in high A do in AA for starters...

Toby

Just this, is an great example for the reasons I do not care about BA. You cannot rank the same guy 6th best in a AA league and 7th best in a high A league. Just ridiculous...

agreed. the other thing I hear in defense to Andy is that "he did not have the pitchers to work with". If that is true, then it is Ryan's fault. So one or the other has to go.