biggentleben

That's just it. It wasn't. So many people want high production through the entire deal that they remember Brown putting up seasons that were worth $1M at the end, but he actually produced just about equal value to his overall number mostly from his first 4 years of the contract. Basically, if CC's injury was significant enough that he coasted the rest of his contract as a 1-2 WAR pitcher, he'd have the same image, but he's earned $90M on a $160M deal in the first three years of the deal.

Mike Hampton's is currently the worst ever, achieving only 26.3% of his paid value. However, both Zito and Wells are well below that. Zito needs about 2 WAR between now and the end of 2013 in order to avoid being the worst ever.

Incorrect. I love Span. I don't think a top 20 prospect will be coming back for him, but I do love him as a player. Heck, I've talked him up so much on Braves boards that I get crud about it now when the discussion of a 2013 CF comes up.

And how can you gauge Gutierrez? He's been injured for over a year, save about a two week span this year. He's tremendous defensively, though he's certainly nothing special offensively. Mike Carp was doing very well before he was hurt as well. They're deep at 3B in the minors as well. Span wouldn't give them what they truly need, which is power bats. Now if you were trading Willingham, that could have legs, but Span makes no sense for the Mariners.

I don't see it with Hamels for sure. He's from Cali, and he's openly stated that he wants to go back there. The Dodgers will have a boatload of spending power. It's just about the worst kept forgone conclusion of the upcoming offseason. Heck, most Philly players have been doing a tribute thing with Cole in cities where they won't get to be his teammate anymore.

The Mariners have arguably the best defensive outfielder in baseball and their positional depth is almost exclusively in the outfield. They're much more looking for a corner OF or corner IF basher.

Little research on this: Player/contract dates/contract value/value provided: Alex Rodriguez/2008-2017/275M/2008-2012 value: $88.2M Alex Rodriguez/2001-2010/252M/2002-2010 value: $222.8M (7.8 WAR pre-2002, approximate value $23M) Albert Pujols/2012-2021/240M/2012 value: $5.9M Joey Votto/2014-2023/225M Prince Fielder/2012-2020/214M/2012 value: $6.3M Derek Jeter/2001-2010/189M/2002-2010 value: 157.9M (4.3 WAR pre-2002, approximate value 11.5M) Joe Mauer/2011-2018/184M/2011-2012 value: $19.8M Mark Teixeira/2009-2016/180M/2009-2012 value: $61.7M CC Sabathia/2009-2015/161M/2009-2012 value: $94.3M Manny Ramirez/2001-2008/160M/2002-2008 value: $97.5M (5.2 WAR pre-2002, approximate value 13.5M) Troy Tulowitzki/2011-2020/157.75M/2011-2012 value: $35.5M Adrian Gonzalez/2012-2018/154M/2012 value: $2.9M Miguel Cabrera/2008-2015/152.3M/2008-2012 value: $106.9M Todd Helton/2001-2011/151.5M/2002-2011 value: $132.1M (7.6 WAR pre-2002, approximate value $24M) Carl Crawford/2011-2017/142M/2011-2012 value: $0.9M Johan Santana/2008-2013/137.5M/2008-2012 value: $55.3M Alfonso Soriano/2007-2014/136M/2007-2012 value: $75.1M Vernon Wells/2008-2014/126M/2008-2012 value: $23.1M Barry Zito/2007-2013/126M/2007-2012 value: $27.9M Jayson Werth/2011-2017/126M/2011-2012 value: $14M Ryan Howard/2013-2017/125M Mike Hampton/2001-2008/121M/2002-2008 value: $23.8M (2.9 WAR pre-2002, approximate value $8M) Cliff Lee/2011-2016/120M/2011-2012 value: $40.2M Jason Giambi/2002-2008/120M/2002-2008 value: $69.2M Matt Holliday/2010-2016/120M/2010-2012 value: $63.5M Carlos Beltran/2005-2011/119M/2005-2011 value: $133M Ken Griffey, Jr./2000-2008/116.5M/2002-2008 value: $11.8M (7.7 WAR pre-2002, approximate value $22M) Jose Reyes/2012-2017/106M/2012 value: $6.9M Kevin Brown/1999-2005/105M/2002-2005 value: $31.1M (25.1 WAR pre-2002, approximate value $72M) Carlos Lee/2007-2012/100M/2007-2012 value: $46.7M Albert Pujols/2004-2010/100M/2004-2010 value: $230.8M Nobody mentioned Griffey, but his is very bad as well.

Not every one. ARod earned his contract back in Texas. Not so much in New York, though. But we expect value until the end of a deal when, in fact, the peak value during a $100M contract could provide enough value to warrant the contract.

Ryan Howard says "What bad contract?"

Hmmm. Not exactly on point. Vizzy is pretty much untradeable, but Minor has worn some welcome in Atlanta away, much like Liriano in Minnesota. Teheran is also not untouchable anymore. He's had some struggles on and off the field this year that has knocked him down a peg. Heck, check out the fall he had in the recent midseason top 120 that Sickels released. He's still a VERY high level prospect, but the untouchable status has come down.

Griffey's swing is perhaps the only one I'd counter with. His or Ted Williams'.

My post on this would be that the Minor/Liriano thing would fly all day if it was proposed on both ends, I think. Gilmartin is on the way as a Minor clone in the Braves organization, and Minor on the way was why Diamond was traded to the Twins. I could definitely see that being a possibility. Otherwise, guys like Teheran and Delgado will be saved for a guy they want to re-sign for 2013 and beyond as Brandon Beachy will be back in mid-2013 and money continues to fall off their books to have good money to invest in a starter if they feel the need rather than trading the farm for one.

The Greinke interest has been in acquiring him while extending him, a la Santana to the Mets. Otherwise, they aren't willing to pay much in prospects for a rental, according to Frank Wren's recent local and national interviews.

Yet every scout you talk to says he's the best catching defender they've ever seen and compare the bat very favorably to Yadier Molina, who really didn't bring any real power until he was in the majors, either.

And why on earth would you "hate" them?

Yeah, I'm not saying this is the way for the game to be determined. I just thought it was interesting when I started doing some research on a post for another board and came across this info. I do think the Braves outfield has been very underrated this year, especially seeing as none of them is on the All-Star team, and it sounds as if the only way any of them would be there now is as an injury replacement as Bourn is getting killed in the last-spot vote. WAR is really not a good predictive tool, but it was interesting to see how certain players have performed thus far according to the statistic, especially when considering the differences in fWAR and bWAR.

I apologize for not being more clear. I do not believe that one must play an organized sport to a high level to understand basic human psychology as it applies to sports, and I struggle with those who insist that there *must* be something outside of that psychology that an athlete possesses.

I also think this opinion is bull, and I'm one who "laced 'em up" at a pretty high level in another sport (only because there was no baseball option for me after little league). To assume anyone who's played the game believes in "clutch" being a permanent state of being is ridiculous, just as it would be to have someone state that there is no such thing as "clutch". There are absolutely clutch moments where someone steps up, but human perception is to recall the things that match our preset notions and neglect and even dismiss those that do not match up to this perception. Clutch can happen, sure, but it's not an inherent trait and is not an ability. If I believe there is no such thing as clutch, I'll notice every time a "clutch" player by reputation strikes out with runners in scoring position. If I believe that clutch is a quality that is permanent in a person, then I'll notice every time the same player hits a two-run double in that situation and conveniently forget (often not even intentionally) any time the player struck out. It's basic confirmation bias from a psychological sense, and any personality disorder loses their filter for one half of this, but the average person often finds beliefs (often of a religious or political backing, but sometimes along the lines of a sports argument) that they develop a similarly one-sided confirmation bias.

No, pretty sure it was directed at the gentleman who has asserted that his previous experience has made him an expert on whether it is a conditional thing or a permanent state of being.

Except Bourn has no possibility of hitting the trade market.

They're absolutely sellers. No question.

I went above and beyond, only because the copy machine accidentally made 4 copies while I was sitting on it.

Another curiosity I had was the top guys in each league at this point (yes, some consider WAR a flawed stat because of the defensive end of it, no matter what site you use, but oh well). I utilized both Fangraphs and Baseball Reference AL Batting Top Ten: Fangraphs: Mike Trout 4.3, Robinson Cano 4.0, Josh Hamilton 3.6, Austin Jackson, 3.5, Adam Jones 3.4, Alex Gordon 3.1, Josh Reddick 3.1, Elvis Andrus 2.9, Jose Bautista 2.9, Brett Lawrie 2.8 Baseball Reference: Lawrie 4.9, Trout 4.2, Cano 3.9, Hamilton 3.2, Jackson 3.1, Reddick 3.1, Jason Kipnis 3.0, Gordon 2.8, Edwin Encarnacion 2.8, Asdrubal Cabrera 2.7, Shin-Soo Choo 2.7, Denard Span 2.7 AL Pitching Top Ten Fangraphs: Justin Verlander 3.6, Chris Sale 3.2, Jake Peavy 2.8, CC Sabathia 2.8, Felix Hernandez 2.6, Matt Harrison 2.5, Jered Weaver 2.2, Jason Hammel 2.2, Yu Darvish 2.2, Jon Lester/Colby Lewis 2.1 Baseball Reference: Sale 3.9, Verlander 3.8, Peavy 3.8, Harrison 3.2, Hiroki Kuroda 2.8, CJ Wilson 2.5, David Price 2.4, Hammel 2.4, Brandon McCarthy 2.3, Jarrod Parker 2.3, Darvish 2.3 NL Batting Top Ten Fangraphs: Joey Votto 4.8, David Wright 4.5, Carlos Ruiz 4.0, Ryan Braun 3.9, Michael Bourn 3.9, Martin Prado 3.7, Andrew McCutchen 3.6, Jason Heyward 3.3, Yadier Molina 3.3, Chase Headley 3.3 Baseball Reference: Wright 4.3, Votto 4.3, Ruiz 3.8, McCutchen 3.5, Bourn 3.5, Darwin Barney 3.4, Melky Cabrera 3.4, Matt Holliday 3.2, Braun 3.2, Prado 3.1 NL Pitching Top Ten Fangraphs: Zack Greinke 3.6, Stephen Strasburg 3.2, Gio Gonzalez 2.9, RA Dickey 2.9, Matt Cain 2.8, Johnny Cueto 2.6, Josh Johnson 2.4, Clayton Kershaw 2.4, Cole Hamels 2.4, James McDonald/Madison Bumgarner 2.3 Baseball Reference: Dickey 3.6, Cueto 3.4, Greinke 2.9, Kershaw 2.6, Ryan Vogelsong 2.6, Jordan Zimmerman 2.5, Johan Santana 2.4, Matt Belisle 2.4, 8 tied at 2.3

Oy, I guess I'll put in a "/sarcasm" tag on each such post in the future. I understood why snepp said what he said, I just attempted some sarcastic snarkiness. It just went woosh, I guess.

You'd rather round all your statistics, huh?