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From August 17, 1999, a 9-3 loss against the Orioles in the midst of a 97 loss season: Minnesota Twins Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · PRE · LINK · ? [TABLE=class: sortable stats_table] [TR=class: normal_text] [TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, align: left]Batting[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]AB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]R[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]H[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]RBI[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]BB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]SO[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals, align: center]BA[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals, align: center]OPS[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]Pit[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]Str[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]WPA[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals, align: center]aLI[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]WPA+[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]WPA-[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]RE24[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]PO[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, align: center]A[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip][/TH] [/TR] [TR=class: normal_text] [TD=align: left]Denny Hocking 2B[/TD] [TD=class: tooltip, align: right]4[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]2[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right].271[/TD] [TD=align: right].703[/TD] [TD=align: right]17[/TD] [TD=align: right]11[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.050[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.53[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.007[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.057[/TD] [TD=align: right] 1.1[/TD] [TD=align: right]2[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] HR[/TR] [TR=class: normal_text] [TD=align: left]Chad Allen LF[/TD] [TD=class: tooltip, align: right]4[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right].284[/TD] [TD=align: right].733[/TD] [TD=align: right]19[/TD] [TD=align: right]12[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.031[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.44[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.011[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.042[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.1[/TD] [TD=align: right]3[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] 2B[/TR] [TR=class: normal_text] [TD=align: left]Marty Cordova DH[/TD] [TD=class: tooltip, align: right]4[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right].294[/TD] [TD=align: right].840[/TD] [TD=align: right]9[/TD] [TD=align: right]7[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.015[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.38[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.016[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.031[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.2[/TD] [TD=align: right][/TD] [TD=align: right][/TD] [/TD][/TR] [TR=class: normal_text] [TD=align: left]Ron Coomer 3B [TD=class: tooltip, align: right]3[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]2[/TD] [TD=align: right].267[/TD] [TD=align: right].743[/TD] [TD=align: right]19[/TD] [TD=align: right]14[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.028[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.49[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.012[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.041[/TD] [TD=align: right] -0.7[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [/TD][/TR] [TR=class: normal_text] [TD=align: left]Matt Lawton RF [TD=class: tooltip, align: right]3[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right].255[/TD] [TD=align: right].718[/TD] [TD=align: right]10[/TD] [TD=align: right]5[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.078[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.62[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.088[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.010[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.5[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] SB[/TR] [TR=class: normal_text] [TD=align: left]Terry Steinbach C[/TD] [TD=class: tooltip, align: right]3[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right].305[/TD] [TD=align: right].783[/TD] [TD=align: right]12[/TD] [TD=align: right]7[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.107[/TD] [TD=align: right] 1.05[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.000[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.107[/TD] [TD=align: right] -1.3[/TD] [TD=align: right]6[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [/TD][/TR] [TR=class: normal_text] [TD=align: left] Javier Valentin C [TD=class: tooltip, align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right].277[/TD] [TD=align: right].766[/TD] [TD=align: right]8[/TD] [TD=align: right]5[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.002[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.08[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.000[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.002[/TD] [TD=align: right] -0.3[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [/TD][/TR] [TR=class: normal_text] [TD=align: left]Doug Mientkiewicz 1B [TD=class: tooltip, align: right]4[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right].213[/TD] [TD=align: right].638[/TD] [TD=align: right]18[/TD] [TD=align: right]10[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.060[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.54[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.000[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.060[/TD] [TD=align: right] -1.1[/TD] [TD=align: right]5[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [/TD][/TR] [TR=class: normal_text] [TD=align: left]Torii Hunter CF [TD=class: tooltip, align: right]2[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]2[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right].252[/TD] [TD=align: right].683[/TD] [TD=align: right]17[/TD] [TD=align: right]9[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.000[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.50[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.028[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.027[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.5[/TD] [TD=align: right]3[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] SB[/TR] [TR=class: normal_text] [TD=align: left]Cristian Guzman SS[/TD] [TD=class: tooltip, align: right]3[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]3[/TD] [TD=align: right].245[/TD] [TD=align: right].579[/TD] [TD=align: right]11[/TD] [TD=align: right]9[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.045[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.58[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.000[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.045[/TD] [TD=align: right] -0.8[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]4[/TD] [/TD][/TR] [TR=class: normal_text] [TD=align: left] Brent Gates PH [TD=class: tooltip, align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right].267[/TD] [TD=align: right].699[/TD] [TD=align: right]3[/TD] [TD=align: right]3[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.001[/TD] [TD=align: right] 0.02[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.000[/TD] [TD=align: right]-0.001[/TD] [TD=align: right] -0.3[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Dan Perkins was the starter and finished the game with a 7.17 ERA. The Orioles Jason Johnson, with a 6.47 ERA, tamed the Twins bats over 7 IP, giving up 3 earned runs. Upon further reflection, tongiht's lineup is definitely worse.

Good point. I forgot about Ramirez. Thomas's play has made him irrelevant, plus Mastro is out there, as well.

Maybe, but who gets the axe from the 40-man to make it work? Or is there a big trade coming to make this all go smoothly?

Thanks, AROG. Good to see Ryan backing his kids unconditionally along with the Tough Love. It wouldn't have hurt Patrick Reusse's column to include additional context in the organization's publicly-stated opinion about how they regard Miguel Sano as a person.

You're completely misunderstanding the use of the ERA+ number in context with the discussion. It was hypothesized that Pelfrey could possibly put up post-TJ numbers similar to de la Rosa's ERA+ of 150 that he has posted thus far in 2013. Nothing was discussed about his career ERA+ or what Sanchez got for his career ERA+. The trend of his ERA+ suggested that his contract deal post-2010 was why the Rockies might consider making the deal with de la Rosa as a good bet. Here's de la Rosa's ERA+ trend since 2007: 07/79, 08/95, 09/108, 10/110, 11/130, 13/150. Pelfrey's career is far more checkered and inconsistent, with only 2 years in 6 with an ERA+ over 100.

On Reusse/Mackey today, they alluded to what Jiminy Crikket had posted previously. The New Britain manager has a history of problems working with young players and once had a season where an entire roster he was coaching rebelled against his leadership. (I haven't looked up the details yet). Reusse has done some research on the issue and seems to have come to the conclusion that we have a bad fit for Sano in New Britain and that the Twins need to get with the fact that all the uber-talented Latin players up and down the system are probably going to need to be handled with a different approach than now being employed. I'm glad to hear that Ryan is providing a voice of reason here before this gets too out of hand. I will look to find the article you mentioned. Do you have the link?

FWIW- I never hinted that he was suspended- or anything else. I just quoted Twins management.

We were all regarded as insane for even thinking just this last year. Regardless, the "good riddance" contingent still got it wrong. A guy with that kind of talent, as exasperating as he was for most of his Twins career, you just can't let go for 2 C players in return.

Not to quibble, but there is nothing in Pelf's career to suggest he will ever post an ERA+ close to 150. (And again, I like Pelf, and hope the Twins consider extending him). And regarding de la Rosa, his 2 best years were in 09 and 10, leading up to the contract that he signed in December of 2010. His combined BR WAR for 2009-11 was 5.2. Pelfrey's combined BR WAR for 09-11 is 2.8. (Admittedly the ages don't line up, but Pelfrey's career has trended down since 2008, his peak year of performance, while de la Rosa is trending up.) (And we both agree that de la Rosa has better stuff). The one thing that might justify Pelfrey getting more money would be the run from 08-11, that demonstrated his workhose nature- where he averaged around 195 IP/yr. This year, Pelfrey is currently on pace for 154 IP. If it can intuited that he will return to 195 IP annually, I still don't see how he commands 3/$33, but I could see the argument that some clubs might make to sign him. Would the Twins be willing to go to 3 years and dollars in that range? Past history makes it seem unlikely.

Adam Pettersen playing 3B and batting 9th for the Rock Cats tonight.

Adam Pettersen playing 3B and batting 9th for the Rock Cats tonight.

Adam Pettersen playing 3B and batting 9th for the Rock Cats tonight.

I agree with this, in principle. As Reusse alluded to earlier in his article, we can now envision a radically younger batting order coming as early as some point in time, next year: 1)Hicks/Buxton 2)Rosario 3) Mauer 4) Sano 5) Arcia 6)Hicks 7)Parmelee/Plouffe. I hope it is in Mauer's makeup to break his quiet, but personally competent, responsible and accountable, persona and provide the strong leadership necessary to what looks to be a very, very young lineup.

Yup. Good point on Pelotero. Let's wait until he at least turns 21 before we draw any sweeping conclusions on how the maturation process is proceeding./exaggeration to effect

Based on what we've seen thus far, Sano's approach and demeanor is the polar opposite of Mauer's. There has to be room for both in the line-up. The onus is on the Twins managment to make it work.

de la Rosa Yr/ERA+: '09/108 (@ age 28), '10/110, '11/130, '12/surgery year. '13/150 Pelfrey Yr/ERA+: '09/81 (@ age 25), '10/107, '11/78, '12/surgery year, '13/80 And de la Rosa's numbers are in Colorado. I would be outraged if Pelfrey got 3/$33M, there is little evidence to suggest that Pelfrey would ever post an ERA+ of 150. And I'm supporting the Twins in exploring the option of re-signing him.

Heavy Irony Meter alert!!! Video: Miguel Sano of New Britain Rock Cats disciplined after 29-second home run 'trot' | masslive.com "If Sano were in the major leagues, his 29-second wandering of the basepaths would rank among the 10 slowest of the season, according to Wezen-Ball.com’s Tater Trot Tracker. Eight of the 10 slowest home run trots for 2013 have been recorded by David Ortiz of the Boston Red Sox."

Heavy Irony Meter alert!!! Video: Miguel Sano of New Britain Rock Cats disciplined after 29-second home run 'trot' | masslive.com "If Sano were in the major leagues, his 29-second wandering of the basepaths would rank among the 10 slowest of the season, according to Wezen-Ball.com’s Tater Trot Tracker. Eight of the 10 slowest home run trots for 2013 have been recorded by David Ortiz of the Boston Red Sox."

I would think Boras would be thrilled to get a 3/$20M plus incentives for Pelfrey.

I don't see the evidence that it is a given Mr Ryan will make a QO for Pelfrey.

I like his accelerated promotion schedule this year, I thought he could have made the move to Ft Myers at some point last year. He seemed to be spinning his wheels in Beloit as the season progressed. Time has proven that he was more than ready to make the move to A+... let's say.... last July.

Jorge Soler is Cuban.

This becomes highly problematic when it appears to be SOP and Priority #1 in Twinsland to weed out the out-sized egos.

As stated in the other thread, where Nick posted the link. Long-time proponent for: Ivan Rodriguez Omar Vizquel Not necessarily as manager right away, but both would be outstanding. Tony Pena would probably be ready to manage immediately, add one of the above as bench coach.

It may not be intentional, but it certainly is a blind spot that would have easily been discovered if the Twins would just have an outside consultant on retainer- to evaluate what "forest for the trees" details the club might be missing in terms of quality control and value-added additions in approach.