bunsen82

Because you get nothing for Paddack if he walks after the season and Jimenez may have been better than anything else that had been offered. That is most likely the answer. Jimenez is a flyer but he has potential especially as a defensive catcher.

I agree I think they will work with Reitz and if they can improve the extension the perceived velocity would be much higher. We have very rarely found anything in the 14th through 20th rounds. Since 2017 you are looking at Funderburk, Varland, Julien (paid 5th round money) and Ohl. Honestly that is probably more finds than most teams have had in those rounds. Varland has solidfied his spot in the bullpen, and Julien still has significant upside. Funderburk and Ohl are most likely just fringe players. I was very surprised they signed all 20 players. In regards to Stevens they did pay him overslot by 22k at 172k. The Alabama connection is prior to getting Priellip, I remember them talking about it then but I am not sure how the relationship got started. Stevens is effectively a clean slate (good and bad), and yes there is very little to go off of, other than what the coaches think. For a flyer, you are getting a player with likely higher upside but for some reason could never get on the field for Bama. then effectively quit this season in may and put himself in the transfer portal (this would have been after the school year). Its odd, but the minimal videos I have seen from cape cod, his stuff looks pretty good. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a grades issue or disciplinary although grades seems the most plausible. Especially quitting right after the school year ended, could be never got the grades up to the level the coaches wanted to play. That opens up more questions, drive, mental acuity ect, but ultimately if can you throw a baseball is all that matters, and even though its the definition of SSS, what he has done is 2 years of summer ball is pretty impressive. We will see. My guess is 1 or both of Stevens or Jones flash. I actually think both actually have the highest ceilings of the picks we made in the later rounds, its not to say there were better options. I really have no idea. In either case the pitching haul we got was crazy Elite potential - Quick High end potential - Ellwanger, Barr, Reitz Good potential - Mitrovitch Fang and Smith Fliers- Jones, Moring, Stevens, Dalquist, Becker and Hilker For pitching prospects I never thought we could touch the 2022 draft - Priellip, Matthews, Morris, Lewis, Jones and CJ Culpepper. Right now that draft has the potential of 2 high end MLB SP in Priellip and Matthews. This draft has that potential and possibly even a higher ceiling even if the achievability of that is slim. Next year I am going to have to be paying a lot of attention to A and A+ ball. Thats an entire pitching staff right there. I am not sure where they are going to put them all LOL. Wait and see, even though it feels more like hurry up and wait haha.

I wouldn't rush Jenkins. Culpepper and Gonzalez have crushed AA though. I am ready for some of the prospects to be moved up and we will have opportunities. I am glad to see a lot of our hitters doing really well this year, especially later in the season. I did realize how well Austin Martin has hit in AAA. If the defense is decent bring him back up along with Julien and McCusker. I would be fine with Wallner being on the bench or going back to AAA.

The equivalent in this case is someone wanted to buy your house, but the offer was a trade where you moved switch houses and move into house with the exact same value, and he paid down 100k on your loan, or the offer was cash value for the value of your house. My stance remains that I don't think Detroit wanted to give away anyone better than Jimenez and Money became the primary method to achieve the value the Twins wanted. Maybe I am wrong. Until we have other information that a different prospect was on the table you are merely creating hypotheticals.

On a value based it increased the overall return. I think its completely reasonable the Twins like Jiminez the best of the players in the prospect range offered, and Detroit may have been unwilling to send any player better than Jiminez to the Twins intra-division for Paddack. No one is aware what was offered, or whether said prospect would have been better. My stance this is a good trade under any metric. Diminishing it seems to be more punitive than anything else and primarily a way to go after Ownership, Management and the Twins as a whole.

So you were in the negotiations and know a better prospect was on the table?

In total we saved $5 million. Now does that get thrown into next years budget, not likely. My guess is revenues are down for this year so they are mitigating that by cutting some. Even still I don't anticipate savings as a primary goal in the remainder of the trades. Had we only received Jiminez I don't think anyone would be complaining that much. It would have abeen a straight up fair trade. Once Dobnak was thrown it people started to go crazy.

Someone better than France 🤣

I am an accountant. Financial decisions generally are involved with any major decision. Lets just think out the box a bit more, and the front office has told Falvey he needs to cut $20 million from this year and next years budget. It needs to be done at some point. Whether now or later. He just saved nearly $5 million of cash value from this trade for the remainder of this year and next year. It has value. It You also are ignoring the counterpoint that Detroit may have been unwilling to provide a better prospect.

The money is saved in either case and could be used for players next year, or possibly in another trade they are working on. You are making assumptions, and minimizing the financial value created.

No not undermining it at all. They were desperate to do a deal, but unwilling to increase the prospect capital. The Twins may actually value Jiminez higher than detroit and the jump up to the next level was just too far for Detroit. Why are you so hung up on the money? Or do you dislike Jiminez that much? You still didn't answer who you thought we could have got that was better.

You do realize the implications of dropping him from the 40 man right?

And they won this trade basically hands down by every metric. Ignore the money, which prospect do you think would have made you happy, then think if Detroit would have been willing to trade that prospect. Detroit was desperate, just losing a starting pitcher. This was likely the best deal the Twins could get all things considered, you just don't like it, because cash almost $4.8 million was a significant part of the calculation.

USAFChief, whats to say Detroit wasn't willing to go any higher on prospects. The Twins said they needed more especially in division but actually liked Jimenez more than what the Yankees or other teams were offering. The compromise was eating cash on Dobnak. The goal may have not been to lower cash paid out, it may have just been the available avenue to complete the deal. In either case, prospect and money savings it looks like a really good deal. But if you and others want to attack it, have at it.

Ok - the entire premise of the article is absurd - more just a way to attack Falvey and the Twins. Trades are made to create value for a team, whether its financial, prospects or players. Dobnak was a dead negative asset, no different than Desclafani in the Polanco trade. On the Value calculator the Twins have a Value of 2.2 for the Catcher prospect (who I actually like) and detroit was near 0 with Paddack and Dobnak basically cancelling each other out. This was an overpay, and to the best of my knowledge we have no other players we are going to dump for salary, unless we began to talk about Correa. So what if we got an A ball player instead of 1 in rookie ball. The difference would have been rather miniscule for Paddack. Paddack, Vazquez and France were all going to be pretty tough sells. As to Bader, Castro, Coloumbe, Jax, Duran, Ryan we have a lot more leverage and they are lot better assets. I think most will be pleasantly surprised after the trade deadline.

Its the reason why I actually really like Falvey in this trade deadline. He creates a value for his players and isn't willing to deviate from it. He isn't going undervalue an asset just to make a deal. He also generally doesn't overpay, other than 2022. So there will be less trades. In general Falvey wants to win trades, that doesn't work well to trade a lot when others are generally looking to only make "fair" deals. The other thing you have to consider is we have basically been in no mans land last couple of trade deadlines, so not trading away players or signing new ones at the deadline, depressing our trade totals. We are in the perfect position of having 3 of the best assets available on the market. Teams can either pay up, or they won't. My guess is at least 1 will for either Duran or Jax. The question is does someone overpay for Ryan? They currently state odds are low, honestly I put it at 50/50. He is the best starter available and someone may feel desperate enough to trade to try to win the World Series.

I still think odds are Correa has a bounce back year next year. Its basically a 3 year 95 million contract after this year. Now would the Twins reinvest it. Not all of it, you can tell they feel the crunch, but I do think they would reinvest 20 million of it. However, thats not occurring if we are paying Correa's contract. Thats beyond stupid. Now if we ate 30 million would they give us a bit of a prospect? Who knows. I do see Houston as a potential landing spot but I don't see them doing any favors for us. Honestly, Correa has given us 10.5 War in the last 4 years. Thats not bad. I do think the Twins sold him on a bill of goods of becoming big spenders and fleshing out the roster and have not been able to fulfill that promise. At the same point we gave him a 200 million dollar contract.

Honestly I think Matthews fills in for Ryan very nicely. We still have a 3 headed monster of Lopez, Ober and Matthews. If not you keep Ryan and you have 4 really good starting pitchers. You then have SWR, Festa, Raya, Priellip. As of now I don't trade for a pitcher, wait for the offseason. If we do get godfather deals, I would want us to utilize the trade capital to rebuild the team and or see if the prospects can fill in the holes and become stars.

Falvey is completely responsible. The concern I have is you have now had 2 years where you underperformed their potential. Injuries ect. As a whole the organization is in a much better standing than when he took over top to bottom. This post really doesn't belong here, as its a trade deadline thread, not a Falvey bashing thread. I am fine with whatever happens in regards to Jax, Duran and Ryan. All 3 can be cornerstones for next 2 years, or someone could overpay. There are more teams than just the Twins trying to win in the division. But I do want to see a competitive team be put together for next year. If you are going to tear it down, use the pieces to build it back together.

The Twins control the market and they don't have to sell. They can maintain their high prices. As they always say you need 2 to tango. So will someone be willing to pay up, or 2 or 3 teams and pay the exorbitant prices Falvey wants for Jax, Duran and Ryan. I heard this morning some are trying to state there could be a work stoppage in 2027 so trying to lower trade values. I think its a bogus argument. As to your take, I agree I think Jax has the overall better stuff. Duran is primarily fastball. If the fastball comes down to 98 or 97 mph, I think he will become extremely hittable. Jax has the spin the pitches to continue to do well even if the velocity comes down.

Jax has produced more WAR in the last 2 years than Duran. Duran struggled a bit last year, Jax a bit this spring.

Doc and anyone else, I was diving a little deeper into some of the pitchers specifically Reitz and the mid to late round pitchers. Reitz has such an odd build, he has a normal torso, then legs that are like 2/3rds of his height and then long arms. I thought his extension must be insane, in reality it’s not. He throws from more of an upright position, sidearmed with an extreme downward angle. Do you think the Twins will maintain this current motion, or really start working on maximizing his extension? The mechanics are a little more rough than I anticipated but there is just so much to work with. Jones, Moring, Stevens seemed like flyer picks but it’s apparent the twins really like all 3 paying them 150k, 100k and 170k respectively. Jones and Steven’s performed really well in the cape cod league. They obviously like Jones build picking him twice. Steven’s never threw for Bama, but obviously the coaches really liked his stuff and relayed it onto the Twins. When you are overpaying for that late of a pick even if they had leverage speaks volumes as to what the Twins think of him. Moring I thought was again a throw away pick, but they paid him 100k. I don’t have as much insight as the other 2 but honestly in retrospect, I expect this draft to challenge the 2022 and 2023 drafts for best drafts in Twins history. We will know in a couple years.

I think they actually value Jax more. More strikeouts, more pitches. So likely Duran who can likely command the higher package.

1 elbow injury cost basically 3 years. Had to do an additional repair. Once its fixed its not surprising that they are healthy, hell just look at Buxton. I could have swore his career was finished 2 years ago. Now he plays like nothing happened.

The Orioles mismanaged their system. The other is you do have to supplement with veterans and be willing to spend some money to retain your veterans. There is a reason they had 6 picks in the first 70 picks. They lost a lot of talent.