Offseason Live Replay: Sorting Out the Bullpen

Good article but why does it have to be written every single year!! What players are "Left over" for the Twins? What 5.0 Era guy can we get. What Tommy John guy is available?

Just one year can't we go get an Ace? Rarely does a Playoff team win without an Ace!

They traded for the Cy Young runner-up last year

That’s an undeniable fact. But, let’s be honest, he was not acquired to be the ace of the staff at the time of the trade. The Cy Young runner-up kind of fell into their lap unexpectedly. If anyone thought it may be the case, the Dodgers would’ve asked for more or kept him outright; other teams would’ve been involved, etc.

 

Working with that level of hindsight, and making the jump to “see, there’s no pitching acquisition/retention issue here,” is a bridge too far and pretty disingenuous. We’re talking about a club that recently ran Randy Dobnak out in a playoff series in Yankee Stadium. We’re also talking about a club that pulled its Cy Young runner up after 5 with a 2 hitter in a playoff game....for less than desirable options. A reasonable baseball person can’t believe that’s a formula for sustained playoff success (or any playoff success, for that matter), with only one example of an acquisition at that level in their tenure. It’s like playing the lottery and calling it a job (sure, you’re doing something, but what are the odds it’s going to payoff?).

 

It was also a shortened seasons, and his efficacy going forward remains to be seen, IMO. He switched leagues and had an “unknown” factor to him with the Twins tweaking his pitch mix.

 

He’ll be a solid pitcher no doubt, but I think it’s a mistake to expect Maeda to be a Cy Young contender for the foreseeable future.

 

The bargain bin works out occasionally. I think the gripe some have is there is a historical lack of willingness to commit significant dollars or prospect capital to a proven front-line starter. Whether that’s ownership, FO philosophy, or whatever.....that’s also an undeniable fact.

 

If the philosophy is that it’s better to develop pitching, fine. But, we’re not seeing that yet. It takes time, and that’s understood. But, we’re currently in a rare playoff window for this club. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a segment of fans to feel like it’s being wasted because we don’t have the horses in the rotation for a World Series run. I feel like it’s unreasonable to not be concerned about how far the pitching staff as a while can carry this team, no matter how many runs they score.

Nick, am a big fan of your stuff but I think you might underestimate the profound disgust many of us long-term Twins fans feel about this org's long term inability to make some big moves that would elevate a good team into a championship contender.

The Ryan regime encapsulated the low-risk MO of the organization by not building on competitive teams in the aughts to make midseason additions that could have brought us closer to another championship.  In particular, the 2006 and 2010 were two terrific teams that fell short in the playoffs.  Ryan by refusing to trade any of his prized prospects failed to add enough to fill some obvious weaknesses.  BTW, none of his prospects really contributed to future Twins success.

 

This nibbling at the edges has been continued by Falvine.  Yes, Donaldson was, we hope, a strong addition, as was the Maeda trade, but as Darius notes, they found a pitcher unneeded and underutilized by the Dodgers and actually gave up a "top" PROSPECT  in Graterol to get him.  The fact that Maeda turned into an ace was a pleasant surprise, but what are the odds that he does the same over a full 160 game season?  The FO should have agressively gone after another top-of-the-rotation starter, like Snell, Darvish, maybe even ones like Castillo or Gray from the Reds, to greatly improve their chances in 2021, just like they should have signed a bona fide closer in case Rogers downhill slide continues.  And while they have been in charge for 4+ years, none of their draft choices seem ready to help this team in the near future; in fact, their #1 overall pick, Lewis, has continued a steady slide down prospect rankings(#46 in Law's latest).

 

I would like to see more attention paid by TD writers to the concerns many of us have that this org, from Pohlad down to Falvey, has shown little commitment to going all out for a championship.  If not this year, when?

 

 

 

 

 

Nick, am a big fan of your stuff but I think you might underestimate the profound disgust many of us long-term Twins fans feel about this org's long term inability to make some big moves that would elevate a good team into a championship contender.

The Ryan regime encapsulated the low-risk MO of the organization by not building on competitive teams in the aughts to make midseason additions that could have brought us closer to another championship.  In particular, the 2006 and 2010 were two terrific teams that fell short in the playoffs.  Ryan by refusing to trade any of his prized prospects failed to add enough to fill some obvious weaknesses.  BTW, none of his prospects really contributed to future Twins success.

 

This nibbling at the edges has been continued by Falvine.  Yes, Donaldson was, we hope, a strong addition, as was the Maeda trade, but as Darius notes, they found a pitcher unneeded and underutilized by the Dodgers and actually gave up a "top" PROSPECT  in Graterol to get him.  The fact that Maeda turned into an ace was a pleasant surprise, but what are the odds that he does the same over a full 160 game season?  The FO should have agressively gone after another top-of-the-rotation starter, like Snell, Darvish, maybe even ones like Castillo or Gray from the Reds, to greatly improve their chances in 2021, just like they should have signed a bona fide closer in case Rogers downhill slide continues.  And while they have been in charge for 4+ years, none of their draft choices seem ready to help this team in the near future; in fact, their #1 overall pick, Lewis, has continued a steady slide down prospect rankings(#46 in Law's latest).

 

I would like to see more attention paid by TD writers to the concerns many of us have that this org, from Pohlad down to Falvey, has shown little commitment to going all out for a championship.  If not this year, when?

 

Give us some examples of teams with below average revenue that traded away the kind of package necessary to land a "Castillo" and then made it to the WS.

 

Give us examples of teams with below average revenue that landed the top free agent SP in free agency. I will save you the trouble. It's happened twice in the past 20+ years. The first was Mike Hamilton with Colorado. That was an unmitigated disaster. The other was Greinke to Arizona. That happened to be the year the Dbacks signed a TV contract that was a huge revenue boost. That move also proved to be quite ineffective.

 

In other words, you are bent out of shape about things that virtually every GM of teams with similar revenue restrictions consider to be poor practices.

Major League Ready - you missed the main points!!  First, a trade for Snell would not have put the Twins in the poor house; his annual pay was around $13MM.  Gray is in about same range.  If our prospects are so good, then it should not be unrealistic to trade for either of these two.

 

Second, no one is saying the Twins should go after a Bauer in FA.  No one!  Nor do I think Hendricks contract was wise, but guys like Yates, Rosenthal, or Hands would have been very affordable and an appreciable upgrade from Colome, who the Sox deemed expendable after 2 seasons.

 

The point here is simply that Twins mgt. has never shown or even expressed the desire that their only goal is winning a championship.  Being competitive might satisfy your wishes, but not mine.  I agree our TV package is on the low side, but Pohlad and company continue to live in a banker's world where the bottom line is everything.  Why haven't they learned that in order to succeed you must invest first, then reap the rewards later?  Unfortunately, the conservative banking mentality seems to be the key criteria in hiring the Ryans and Falveys of the world to run their baseball org.

 

Major League Ready - you missed the main points!!  First, a trade for Snell would not have put the Twins in the poor house; his annual pay was around $13MM.  Gray is in about same range.  If our prospects are so good, then it should not be unrealistic to trade for either of these two.

 

Second, no one is saying the Twins should go after a Bauer in FA.  No one!  Nor do I think Hendricks contract was wise, but guys like Yates, Rosenthal, or Hands would have been very affordable and an appreciable upgrade from Colome, who the Sox deemed expendable after 2 seasons.

 

The point here is simply that Twins mgt. has never shown or even expressed the desire that their only goal is winning a championship.  Being competitive might satisfy your wishes, but not mine.  I agree our TV package is on the low side, but Pohlad and company continue to live in a banker's world where the bottom line is everything.  Why haven't they learned that in order to succeed you must invest first, then reap the rewards later?  Unfortunately, the conservative banking mentality seems to be the key criteria in hiring the Ryans and Falveys of the world to run their baseball org.

 

No, the salary would have not been problematic but it would have meant foregoing either Simmons or Cruz. The real cost was that they gave up the equivalent to Balazovic / Duran and Rortvedt. That's a big bight out of the future and I don't see Snell as the guy who gives us the edge in game 1. He was great in 2017 but he has not been dominant with the exception of one playoff game.

 

You also missed my point. I asked for examples where this strategy where this has worked. KC would be the most obvious. However, they did not win it until after Shields was gone. The more important addition was a relative throw in (Davis). Also keep in mind that trading away Greinke was key in building that team. They managed to make their window really short. So, my point is that the strategy you suggest has very few success stories for teams with below average revenue. That's why this front office and others are not following your desired path.

Nick, am a big fan of your stuff but I think you might underestimate the profound disgust many of us long-term Twins fans feel about this org's long term inability to make some big moves that would elevate a good team into a championship contender.

The Ryan regime encapsulated the low-risk MO of the organization by not building on competitive teams in the aughts to make midseason additions that could have brought us closer to another championship.  In particular, the 2006 and 2010 were two terrific teams that fell short in the playoffs.  Ryan by refusing to trade any of his prized prospects failed to add enough to fill some obvious weaknesses.  BTW, none of his prospects really contributed to future Twins success.

 

This nibbling at the edges has been continued by Falvine.  Yes, Donaldson was, we hope, a strong addition, as was the Maeda trade, but as Darius notes, they found a pitcher unneeded and underutilized by the Dodgers and actually gave up a "top" PROSPECT  in Graterol to get him.  The fact that Maeda turned into an ace was a pleasant surprise, but what are the odds that he does the same over a full 160 game season?  The FO should have agressively gone after another top-of-the-rotation starter, like Snell, Darvish, maybe even ones like Castillo or Gray from the Reds, to greatly improve their chances in 2021, just like they should have signed a bona fide closer in case Rogers downhill slide continues.  And while they have been in charge for 4+ years, none of their draft choices seem ready to help this team in the near future; in fact, their #1 overall pick, Lewis, has continued a steady slide down prospect rankings(#46 in Law's latest).

 

I would like to see more attention paid by TD writers to the concerns many of us have that this org, from Pohlad down to Falvey, has shown little commitment to going all out for a championship.  If not this year, when?