BD57

In terms of baseball, I agree with Seth - - - big risk when a guy's coming back from TJ. "The other hand" is the "marketing a team" angle. Even with the injury, Baker's the best "prospect" of our 2013 FA starting pitchers. The rotation we thought we were going to have - Pavano, Baker, Liriano, Blackburn & (your name here) - is in shambles. Do we have farm system guys who are ready to step into the rotation? Not really - good start this year by Diamond & Walters, but really, aren't they both doing better than we expected (expect)? If they regress to the mean .... We're not going to be in the running for good FA starting pitching - not willing to spend that much $ on one guy. Are we going to try to get FA guys for "no more than we spent this year on these guys?" How do you sell / market the 2013 Twins if you've let 60% of this year's rotation walk?

A professional hitter won the battle today. That happens. Very hard to win when your offense only gets you 3 runs.

I'm going to start at the other end ... #1-3 are playoff game starters. #4 is (as noted above) a guy you'd be OK starting 32 times during the year. #5 is a guy you put out there so your #1-4 get 4 days rest between starts. Long relief is a guy who "could" be a starter - has more than one pitch, can (as some have noted) get through the lineup once. But, honestly .... his role is more "damage control" than anything else. Long relief gets out there because your starter got whacked around or injured early - - - - if he can can give you a few innings & save the bullpen from getting burnt up, you're happy with him. AAAA is a guy who "should be" better than he is. A guy who's very good in AAA 'should' be able to be decent with the big club. IMO, your AAAA has some correctable weakness in his game that he 'should' be able to solve but hasn't yet. AAA - - - - guy who isn't ready for the big club. Could be he never will be or "isn't yet" - needs to add a pitch, gain command over the pitches he has, etc. Obviously, this staff doesn't have a 1, 2 or 3 (Diamond & Walters are pitching like top of the rotation guys thus far, but it's way too early - and there's really nothing in their track record which says they're going to be that good). The rest of them really don't belong in a starting rotation.

Justin would have to bring a big return to justify trading him. Don't know that he could draw that right now ... if he gets hot & stays there, then who knows? Problem is we're so deficient in so many areas - - - -

Baseball is a hard game, especially (IMO) because of the "daily grind" factor - - - - there's not much time to work on mechanics, study your approach, etc. Benson may have 6 years but he's not "old" - - - - plus, the idea is to develop the kids, not throw them to the wolves. Holding out hope b/c we're not going to get good again unless kids like Benson begin to figure it out.

Seems like every time we wild pitch someone to 2nd with 2 outs, the next guy gets a hit to score him.

The contract is the contract. Imagine the firestorm that would've erupted if the Twins hadn't signed Mauer. Here's the scenario Mauer is a local kid drafted #1 by the Twins. In 2009, he won the batting title, hit 28 HRs after sitting out the first month, OPS+ 171. At the time, no one "knew" 28 HR in 5 months was an "aberration." CW was that Mauer's power would pick up as he became more experienced, etc. At the time, no one knew Target Field was going to be a pitcher's park or that the difference between the Dome & Target would be so significant. The contract was signed before the Twins began play in their new ballpark - the one which (the Twins told us) would allow them to generate the revenues required to actually compete. So "naturally" the first thing the Twins should've done is drive a hard bargain with the 'hometown boy who makes very good' and risk losing him to free agency. The Twins would've been accused of double-crossing the fans - "the Pohlad family's going to rake in the money and sit on it," etc. Joe Mauer happened to be negotiating an extension at the best possible time for him - career (to date) season, he hits the equivalent of 32-35 HR, drives in the equivalent of 120 runs, wins the battling title, MVP, etc. The Twins happen to be negotiating an extension at a less than opportune time for them - moving into a new park where income is going to go up (making it harder to cry "poverty"), when any reluctance on their part to pay the man will be construed as miserly.

@twinswon1991 - the definition of "quality start" is what it is; Marquis had one. It wasn't pretty ... really, it was kinda ugly ... but he had one.

Based on those numbers, it looks like "more than" should have been "around" ... something a fan might say to amplify his disgust with the product on the field. Count me in the "surprised how bad this crew has been" column. Looking back, I had more confidence in the starting pitching than their track records deserved.

Gardy's a good manager. It's possible that he's grown stale for the guys in the clubhouse - even good managers do sometimes - but I don't think this is all on Gardy. He's part of the problem, but he's not the sole cause. IMO, the Twins don't place much value on power arms & bats. Maybe they're hard to identify when kids are coming out of HS or 3rd year of college ball, I don't know - - - maybe they're hard to develop when you're preaching "pitch to contact" and "hit the other way" all the time.

I've always thought a baseball team is never as good as it looks when it's winning or as bad as it looks when it's losing. I'm revisiting that thinking these days.

Went looking for some video of 2006 Liriano. Couldn't find anything substantive from games - probably didn't look hard enough - but did find some "bullpen" stuff. Even accepting there's a difference between warming up & trying to get hitters out, there was a big difference. IMO, Liriano ought to be put on a mound with two short 'sidewalls" on either side - One that keeps him from falling toward third and the other which keeps his back leg from swinging around like a trebuchet on every pitch. He needs balance & he needs everything going toward home plate, neither of which is happening now.

@ Jim H ... Amen to all that. Mauer is a catcher and one of the best hitters in baseball - a rare combination. As far as "contribution in 2012" .... Joe's been in the lineup, he's hitting .325, 2nd in OBP, 3rd in slugging, 2nd in OPS, 2nd in RBI .... the only thing he's not doing with the bat is hitting HR's. And we've just finished the first (short) month of the season. Is Mauer any good at all? Let's see - - - there's a HOF guy who hit .338 (Mauer's only batting .324 for his career) who hit less than 7 HR a season (Mauer's averaging 10 or so), OBP .388 (Mauer, .404), SLG .459 (Mauer .470), OPS .847 (Mauer .874), OPS+ 132 (Mauer 134) ... WAR 68.4 over 20 (Mauer 40.3 over 7) ... And Mauer's a catcher ... the HOFer wasn't. At some point, folks need to understand that Mauer is DAMN good ... and players who are DAMN good get paid.

@ Seth ... Shouldn't performance at a higher level carry more weight than similar performance at a lower level? I like DeVries numbers, especially when he's 2 levels up from Wheeler & Hermsen (who definitely had a good April). Like peterb18, I've had my fill of the Twins apparent fascination with "pitch to contact" types. Not that there isn't a place for them on a pitching staff - there is - but to the extent it seems like they don't want and don't seek guys who miss bats. We've seen what happens to "pitch to contact" types the last few trips to the playoffs ... the guys you see in the post season make "better contact" & you get beat. ENOUGH!!!

@ Seth - thanks for this ... in light of the big club's struggles, it's good to hear that there may be help a-comin' ... in a couple years, yes, but every little bit helps.

In a recent interview, Ron Coomer said it takes about 6 weeks to figure out what you've got. While I tend to agree, there's a lot not to like about what we're seeing. As far as Terry Ryan, Gardy & the staff is concerned ... Thus far, the non-pitchers Ryan added are contributing and (IMO) this group is better with the bats than last year's. As far as the pitching staff moves - - - - not crazy about them. But the bigger issues for me are (1) losing baker before the season started; and (2) Liriano imploding. There aren't many teams out there that wouldn't be badly hurt by 40% of their rotation blowing up.

Don't want him in the pen. What I'm seeing is the moment he's stressed at all, his mechanics, etc. go to Hades - next thing you know, there's a crooked number on the board. Put him in the pen & he's going to enter lots of games in "stress" situations. As for the "going to the 4-seam vs. the 2-seam" .... if that's what we decided to do, how in the heck did he throw so many 2-seamers today? Was the story bogus? Or was Liriano insubordinate?

That "rounding off" & falling toward third thing has been an issue for a couple of years now. One other thing ... looking at Liriano's left knee - if all the pictures are taken at the same point in time in his delivery, then it looks like he's also lengthened his stride, because the left knee is quite a bit closer to the dirt now than it was in 2010.

Probably a 7 for Gardy, a solid "5" for the front office (I have more faith in Ryan than Smith ... but ...) and a solid 2.5 for the medical staff. There are things that drive me nuts - mostly, that the organization is so enamored with "pitch to contact" that it seems they think missing bats is a bad thing. And the medical staff needs to get straightened out .... seems like every time there's an injury, we find out a few weeks later that it's far worse than anyone imagined.

IMO, the main consideration was "get Rochester a player that might bring some excitement to their team" after the guy who was supposed to be their guy at 1B (Parmalee) played his way onto the Twins roster. The Red Wings have been atrocious for the past few years. Right or wrong, there are folks there who don't believe they've been supported by the "Big Club." Pay some cash to get them a guy who may hit some HR's for them ... good move. If he's a "good" surprise, so much the better.

Turns out the Yankees International League farm club will play most of its 2012 home games in Rochester while their ballpark in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is rebuilt. http://rochester.redwings.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120306&content_id=27061090&vkey=news_t534&fext=.jsp&sid=t534

Baker in the 80's doesn't cut it. Hopefully it's jus because his arm isn't built up b/c he's missed so much time this spring.

That line would be wonderful ...

I've been a Twins fan since 1965, when I was 8. Watching the World Series that year is the first TV baseball I can remember. I don't live in Rochester now. Haven't since 1972, though I was back for summers through 1980 (end of college years). I've been living in Florida since 1972 - haven't been to Frontier Field in Rochester ... seen more games @ the Metrodome than any other MLB park and really, really want to see Target Field, just haven't been able to make it work out yet. Like I said, I live in Florida now. My Minnesota bona fides .... While I was born in Iowa, my dad grew up in Lakefield Minnesota; my mom in St. Paul. My dad has an EE degree from the University of Minnesota and is a big supporter of the Williams Fund. I get the "Sports package" on DirecTV for one reason, and one reason only - I get to watch University of Minnesota hockey during the winter months. I was at the U when TCF Bank Stadium opened. The first Twins game I saw in person, Tom Hall pitched 5 perfect innings, Harmon & Leo Cardenas hit home runs and the Twins won. Went to an 11:00 a.m. game with my dad in 1987, during the pennant drive. Came to Minnesota in 2007 to celebrate my dad's 80th birthday - we celebrated at a Twins game (went again the next day too). The weekend TCF Bank opened, my youngest and i went to two Twins games. I have Extra Innings, MLB.TV & the "At Bat" app so I can watch / listen to Twins games wherever I might be at the moment. As miserable as last year was, I probably watched 120 of the games - maybe even more. I was a Little League manager for two years - we were the "Twins" both years. My "real" jerseys ... a BP jersey I wore while managing my Twins teams (because that's what the kids jerseys looked like); the current home jersey (customized); a Joe Mauer 2011 3rd Jersey (the reproduction of the 60's flannel); and three Mitchell & Ness jerseys ... Killebrew '65, Killebrew '69 (road) and Puckett '84. Add to that a Twins "heavy" jacket from 5+ years ago or so (the one you saw Gardy wearing whenever it was chilly) and at least a half-dozen "on the field" fitted Twins hats ... plus a couple of the "BP" hats. In short ... I don't have to defend my "Twins" roots or rooting interest to you or anyone else. It is GOOD BUSINESS for the MLB club to take care of and care for their minor league affiliates. You want "loyalty up" the chain of command? Lead by example & show loyalty down that chain of command. The Twins don't "own" the Red Wings; they aren't guaranteeing that the Red Wings will "break even," etc. Want to sell more Twins stuff? Put a good product on the field. The Twins haven't been doing that for Rochester. Add to that the perception that the MLB guys don't like Rochester - while there have been exceptions, more often than not, the MLB guys go anywhere but Rochester for their rehab assignments. Seriously ... what is a major league baseball player doing playing "High-A" games in Florida to get ready to play in the bigs? The Twins haven't done a good job with Rochester. They'd be wise to start.

Interesting viewpoint. I grew up in Rochester. The first team I knew about was the Red Wings. I spent many evenings over those years going to Red Wing (later Silver) Stadium and watching some excellent baseball. So the idea that Rochester is somehow a less-than ideal minor-league affiliate town is pretty hard to swallow. The Twins have "treated" Rochester to putrid baseball pretty much from the first moment they signed up as the Twins Triple-A affiliate. While there are a lot of extenuating circumstances for last year, what with all the injuries the Twins suffered, "how bad" the product was last year really wasn't a significant departure from what the Twins put on the playing surface @ Frontier Field over the years. If anything, Twins management should be thankful Rochester hasn't terminated the working agreement.