Jim Crikket

Good idea. I hope someone does just that. I suspect you're right that comments would be just as negative. I also suspect what you'd find is that about 70-80% of the 2006 prospects (let's say top 20 rounds or so) have either washed out or are still buried in the organization somewhere and a handful are just now hitting the Big Leagues. If you go back a year to 2005, there should be a similar number, but maybe they have a year or two of service time under their belts. The 2007-2008 drafts probably have very few Major Leaguers yet, but a few guys getting close. That kind of time lag is what you should expect and I suspect that's pretty comparable to what you'd find if you looked at the same years for most other teams that were experiencing enough success on the field that they were drafting near the end of each round like the Twins were those years. Some people just can't seem to get their minds around the fact that this is not the NFL or NBA draft, where the top draft picks ALL immediately make the big team. Most of these drafted players will never get a sniff of a MLB clubhouse. That's why they draft so many rounds. It's purely a numbers game. And the draft is only ONE way to acquire young players, with international signings being arguably much more important.

I find it highly entertaining that so many fans just assume Baseball America and other similar sites know more about every draftable ballplayer than the teams do. Seriously... why should teams even employ scouts? Just draft based on BA's rankings, right? Oh... and of course factor in bloggers' rankings, too.

Yeah, I'd say a debut in 2017 and a regular in 2018. Makes him under team control during what's likely to be his most productive years. I don't see them rushing him. Short season this year, One level per year after that.

Have to wonder if that pick was a big giant Screw You to Boras

Astros leave the Twins with a big decision to make. Wow... hilarious.

You started out by saying 3-4 years to get "through the minors" isn't aggressive, but now the standard is having a MLB debut within 5 years? The latter, I'll agree with... a debut within 5 years isn't unusual. But that's not "through the minors" unless he (unlike your examples) sticks and it doesn't make 6 years "quite extreme" if it happens to take that long.

If all you want to look at is time before a MLB debut, that's fine, but as long as a player is still playing most of his season in the minor leagues, I don't think we can consider him to have gotten "through the minors" in this organization. Cuddyer was drafted in 1997 and didn't play more games at the MLB level than in the minors until 2004. Kubel was drafted in 2000 and didn't play more games at the MLB level than in the minors until 2006 (granted the 2005 year was lost to injury, so he never completed 5 full years of minor league ball). Justin Morneau was drafted in 1999 and didn't play more than half a season at the MLB level until 2005. Ben Revere made it in four years, but I'd suggest that was as much due to lack of other options last year as it was to his own performance. Point is simply that anyone who thinks a HS position player who's drafted #2 tonight by the Twins will automatically be suiting up for them on an everyday basis four years from now is likely being ambitously optimistic. Mauer did it in three years, but that doesn't happen often.

I was at the game Friday, as well (across from the field from you, behind the Beloit dugout). It was my first time at their ballpark, though I have no idea why it's taken me so long to get there, since it's only about an 80 minute drive for me. Maybe because I can watch MWL games in Cedar Rapids. But I enjoyed seeing the Snappers again and look forward to their trip to CR later this month.

3-4 years to get a HS position player through the system? The Twins? I wouldn't bet my paycheck on that. yes, Buxton or Correa could follow a path similar to Mauer, but the Twins rarely push a teenage positional prospect aggressively.

ashburyjohn: Position players don't just bat, however, unless you're drafting a pure DH (which I don't think anyone does). They also contribute every inning by playing defense and, hopefully, do so almost every game. A starting pitcher can only influence the games he pitches. A position player has the potential to influence every game offensively and defensively. mike wants wins: You've stumbled upon my secret for always being right... I simply argue both sides of the debate.

Of course, if I were really interested enough to care a lot about who the Twins pick and wanted to make the argument for Buxton or another position player, I'd pose the question of whether people really believe the best use of the #2 pick overall would be on a player who, in the unlikely event that he actually hits his ceiling, would appear in less than 20% of his team's games and in less than 15% of his team's total innings... and that would be in his BEST seasons. I want a front of the rotation SP as much as anyone, but I'm not altogether sure it's a wise move with a pick that high. I just wish the organization seemed more inclined to trade for good pitching once in a while.

a. they not only would have had Lee for 2 months, but ALSO either the first shot at re-signing him or TWO compensatory draft picks with which to replace Hicks and Ramos. b. you don't KNOW what his effect would have been, both in terms of winning enough games during the season to change the postseason match-ups and his own postseason performance, nor do you know what additional moves the Twins might have made if they were that committed to winning in 2010. c. So what? Pavano can be, too, and they've kept him around. Are we only interested in aces with personalities we "like"? And nobody will ever trade their two best SP prospects for 2 OF prospects, so if that's the only hope you're going to hold on to, forget it... you'd better draft pitching. Teams hoard top-flight starting pitching until a guy becomes too expensive to keep.

I hesitate to even comment on this article because I genuinely don't care who the Twins pick because it really is such a crapshoot anyway. That said, I totally agree that, in theory, you go ahead and take the BPA even if it's at a position of relative depth, because you can always trade that depth for front line pitching. The problem with that theory, however, is that the Twins have not historically been willing to do that. And even when they have been willing to, a sizable number of their fans go bannanas. It was almost exactly two years ago that the Twins reportedly had offered Hicks and Ramos to Seattle for a couple months of renting Cliff Lee. People went nuts. Those are two of our top five prospects, you can't do that!!! Fine... so Lee goes to Texas and the Rangers go to the World Series, while the Twins, without anything resembling a front line pitcher, bend over and allow the Yankees to spank them three straight games and haven't sniffed .500 baseball since. Instead, the Twins get Matt Capps for Ramos and still have Hicks trying to bat his way out of AA two years later. Point is, it's absolutely right to draft the best player available regardless of position IF you're willing to part with legitimate prospects to fill important (and expensive) needs at critical times. But if you're NOT willing to do that, then you'd better forget drafting BPA and focus on the pitcher with the best upside, because it's the only way you'll ever get a top of the rotation pitcher.

Many of us in Midwest League territory hoped initially that we'd get a chance to see an infield at Beloit consisting of Sano, Rosario and Michael, but the Twins announced rather early this spring that Levi would start the year in Fort Myers. Maybe he'd have been better off starting in Beloit after all. Then again, the MWL is not exactly known as a hittters league, so who knows? Hope he figures it out soon and gets on track.

Exactly. It's what I'd expect out of a writer who had absolutely no interest in writing about the Twins but was compelled to do so by an editor's assignment. Sure, he was writing for a national audience, not Twins fans. But if he wrote something like that about the Pirates, I wouldn't have to be a Pirates fan to read it and recognize it as a half-assed excuse for "journalism."

It's a fine line, however. You're right that fans who want the team to eventually improve need to continue supporting it with their eyeballs and their wallets. That said, if everyone does that, it would mean near-sellouts regardless of the quality of the play on the field. That would send the message to ownership that it really doesn't matter how good the talent is or how competitive the team is because people will buy tickets, regardless. There has to be a mix of both... ownership needs to know there ARE consequences to them for not putting a quality product on the field. And fans have to understand that there will be good and bad years and you don't just turn your back on the team when things take a downward turn for a year or two.

Yanno I just noticed something... Beresford "tripled to right fielder Brad Glenn"... but got thrown out at home, "left fielder Brian Van Kirk to catcher Sean Ochinko." Tripled to RF and got thrown out at home by the LF. There's gotta be an interesting story behind that.

What a horse**** article. That's five minutes of my life I'll never get back that I could have spent doing something more productive... which would be just about anything other than taking the time to read that thing. You write an article about "what to do with the Twins" and then come up with nothing more than "cross your fingers and hope" or "do something drastic"? Now THAT'S insightful writing, friends. Pretty much the typical ill-informed and too lazy to GET informed kind of thing I've come to expect from "national" writers who can't be bothered to spend any time actually researching teams that aren't in Boston or New York. So, John... that the kind of "feedback" you were interesting in getting concerning the article?

As I was glancing over the recap of Wednesday night's Rock Cats victory, this note caught my eye. It occurred in the top of the 6th inning with two outs and runners on 1st and 3rd, with the New Britain leading 2-0 at the time. James Beresford triples (1) on a line drive to right fielder Brad Glenn. Matt Rizzotti scores. Danny Lehmann scores. James Beresford out at home, left fielder Brian Van Kirk to catcher Sean Ochinko. So... James hit his first triple of the season (to left field, no less), racking up a couple of two-out ribbies in the process. But he also got thrown out at the plate, apparently going for his first home run of the season (of the inside-the-park variety). I'd sure like to have seen a video of that!

The people saying "trade Willingham now" are the same ones who will be back here a year from now whining about the fact the Twins have nobody who can hit the ball out of the ballpark. You don't get the best return in trades in May and when you DO trade, you trade from surplus, not from areas where you're already thin. Just saying, "there are a lot of outfielders" among the team's top prospects doesn't look deep enough. You need more than just 3-4 speedy glove-types who can't hit the damn ball out of the infield, much less over a fence. Willingham is signed for a reasonable amount for several years. You don't get in a hurry to trade away one of the few power hitters you have when it means you just have to go back in to the free agent market to buy ANOTHER power hitter, because you have none of them in your organization that are likely to be ready for the Big Leagues for 2-3 years. Even IF an offer for Willingham comes through that's too good to pass up, it's not going to happen now. GMs don't get stupid until July.

Unlike some of you, I decided I really DIDN'T have time to read the long story (as well as the follow up online post by Verducci) until today, so I'm coming a bit late to the party. For the record, I'm pretty much in agreement with Bonnes on the issue of how widely acknowledged and accepted (or even suspected) the PED use was in the 90s. In fact, even when Congress started conducting hearings in the early 2000s, my general feeling was, "don't those people have more important issues to deal with than this?" Clearly, there WERE people who "knew" much of what was happening in the 90s, but I tend to believe that most people who now claim they "knew" are taking advantage of 20-20 hindsight. As for the comments made by Naulty regarding Joe Torre being more "gracious" than what he was accustomed to in Minnesota, I took that as meaning, "compared to Tom Kelly," and I don't think it would surprise many people to hear that Joe Torre, especially in the late 1990s, came across as a more gracious manager than Tom Kelly.

This article originally was posted on May 30 at Knuckleballsblog.com. I know Twins fans aren’t quite accustomed to dealing with having their team be uncompetitive right out of the gate, but that’s no excuse for being rediculously stupid. It seems like some folks just don’t know how to enjoy the rare good performance when they see one. No, it has to be immediately followed by, “Let’s trade him!” http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/MorneauST11h-221x300.jpg Justin Morneau Justin Morneau’s wrist is feeling good and he’s hitting the ball well! Let’s trade him NOW! Ryan Doumit’s had some clutch hits! He should be traded while he’s hot! Denard Span is getting on base and playing a decent center field! Trade him for a boatload of pitchers, right now! Josh Willingham hit a walkoff home run! It’s time to trade him, NOW! Listen carefully, please… May 30 is never “the time” for a non-contending team to trade productive veteran players for prospects. Why? Because Major League GMs are not idiots… in May. They aren’t going to see one home run in May and think, “Wow. I want that guy and I’ll trade away my best pitching prospect to get him!” At least not for another several weeks. http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/DoumitST2012c-224x300.jpg Ryan Doumit Should Twins General Manager Terry Ryan be listening to offers for most of his productive veterans? Absolutely. There’s nobody on this roster that should be “off limits” right now. Some of the contracts may make certain players (that would be you, Mr. Mauer) untradeable for all practical purposes, but that doesn’t mean Ryan shouldn’t listen if a fellow GM thinks he has an idea that would work. But May 30 is for listening… for determining which teams might have interest in certain players… but not for trading. Frankly, nobody is desperate (read: stupid) enough to give enough in return, yet. The Red Sox, Tigers and Angels are off to slow starts, but they are far from being desperate… yet. The Indians and Orioles, although finding themselves in better positions than they perhaps expected heading in to the season, still have some holes to fill. But they are far from desperate… yet. It’s desperation that makes for unequal trades and we all know that fans… Twins fans in particular, it seems… tend to overvalue their players and thus expect more for them in return for a trade than other teams are likely to be willing to give up. There is simply no trade Ryan could make on May 30 that would make anyone in Twinsville happy, unless it happened to involve a player that a particular fan has some screwy personal grudge against. First, you have to at least get past the upcoming draft. Until then, neither the Twins nor potential trading partners know for sure what their respective organizatinal needs are, nor where they have sufficient depth to afford the luxury of trading away a decent prospect or two. Perhaps more than any other professional draft, the MLB draft is a crapshoot. Players can’t be counted on to make an immediate impact at the Major League level and, in fact, they can’t really be counted on to ever play Big League ball. So, despite all the fan chatter about how teams need to draft pitching or power hitting or speed because of the perception that the organization’s current MLB roster is short on that particular talent, teams almost always draft what they believe is the “best player available” when their turn comes around. You simply don’t know with any level of certainty what your organization’s needs will be by the time a particular kid is ready to play Big League baseball. As a result, it’s only after the draft is over that you can judge with any precision what kind of talents you should be targeting in the trade market… and it’s only after the draft is over that you or potential trade partners can accurately judge which talents they may have a surplus of and can thus afford to send off in a trade. That’s when phone lines between GMs start to warm up. http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/SpanAutographsST11a-252x300.jpg Denard Span Even then, real interest doesn’t often reveal itself until July rolls around and desperation doesn’t kick in until later that month. That’s when teams convince themselves that they need a toolsy lead-off hitting center fielder or a versatile switch-hitting back up catcher with a little pop, especially if they’ve got team-friendly contracts. For guys with big contracts, the “time” to trade them might not come around until August, after the non-waiver deadline passes. That’s when desperation really sets in and teams become willing to take on big contracts and overpay in prospects, if they think the guy could help them bring home some sort of championship this year. I think we all understand the reality of 2012. Every GM in baseball will have Terry Ryan on speed dial and Ryan is going to make some deals. I don’t especially like that, but it’s the reality that comes with being an underperforming last place team. But that doesn’t mean I want him giving away every veteran on the ballclub without getting guys who are pretty damn close to being Major League ready in return. Some people may be willing and even eager to ship current players off for a couple of “organization players” who will never be more than roster fillers for Rochester or New Britain (or whoever next year’s AAA and AA Twins affiliates are). I am not one of those people. I want… I expect… to see a much better product on the field next season and if Ryan can’t get players in trade that should be expected to contribute to this team being more competitive in 2013, then I’d just as soon see the Spans, Doumits, Morneaus and Willinghams still wearing Twins uniforms next year. And nobody is offering that level of talent, especially the potential top of the rotation pitching talent the team desperately needs most, on May 30. So how about we just stop with the, “Twins need to trade so-and-so right now,” crap? No, they don’t. - JC (All photos: Jim Crikket, Knuckleballs)

This article originally was posted on May 30 at Knuckleballsblog.com. I know Twins fans aren’t quite accustomed to dealing with having their team be uncompetitive right out of the gate, but that’s no excuse for being rediculously stupid. It seems like some folks just don’t know how to enjoy the rare good performance when they see one. No, it has to be immediately followed by, “Let’s trade him!” http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/MorneauST11h-221x300.jpg Justin Morneau Justin Morneau’s wrist is feeling good and he’s hitting the ball well! Let’s trade him NOW! Ryan Doumit’s had some clutch hits! He should be traded while he’s hot! Denard Span is getting on base and playing a decent center field! Trade him for a boatload of pitchers, right now! Josh Willingham hit a walkoff home run! It’s time to trade him, NOW! Listen carefully, please… May 30 is never “the time” for a non-contending team to trade productive veteran players for prospects. Why? Because Major League GMs are not idiots… in May. They aren’t going to see one home run in May and think, “Wow. I want that guy and I’ll trade away my best pitching prospect to get him!” At least not for another several weeks. http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/DoumitST2012c-224x300.jpg Ryan Doumit Should Twins General Manager Terry Ryan be listening to offers for most of his productive veterans? Absolutely. There’s nobody on this roster that should be “off limits” right now. Some of the contracts may make certain players (that would be you, Mr. Mauer) untradeable for all practical purposes, but that doesn’t mean Ryan shouldn’t listen if a fellow GM thinks he has an idea that would work. But May 30 is for listening… for determining which teams might have interest in certain players… but not for trading. Frankly, nobody is desperate (read: stupid) enough to give enough in return, yet. The Red Sox, Tigers and Angels are off to slow starts, but they are far from being desperate… yet. The Indians and Orioles, although finding themselves in better positions than they perhaps expected heading in to the season, still have some holes to fill. But they are far from desperate… yet. It’s desperation that makes for unequal trades and we all know that fans… Twins fans in particular, it seems… tend to overvalue their players and thus expect more for them in return for a trade than other teams are likely to be willing to give up. There is simply no trade Ryan could make on May 30 that would make anyone in Twinsville happy, unless it happened to involve a player that a particular fan has some screwy personal grudge against. First, you have to at least get past the upcoming draft. Until then, neither the Twins nor potential trading partners know for sure what their respective organizatinal needs are, nor where they have sufficient depth to afford the luxury of trading away a decent prospect or two. Perhaps more than any other professional draft, the MLB draft is a crapshoot. Players can’t be counted on to make an immediate impact at the Major League level and, in fact, they can’t really be counted on to ever play Big League ball. So, despite all the fan chatter about how teams need to draft pitching or power hitting or speed because of the perception that the organization’s current MLB roster is short on that particular talent, teams almost always draft what they believe is the “best player available” when their turn comes around. You simply don’t know with any level of certainty what your organization’s needs will be by the time a particular kid is ready to play Big League baseball. As a result, it’s only after the draft is over that you can judge with any precision what kind of talents you should be targeting in the trade market… and it’s only after the draft is over that you or potential trade partners can accurately judge which talents they may have a surplus of and can thus afford to send off in a trade. That’s when phone lines between GMs start to warm up. http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/SpanAutographsST11a-252x300.jpg Denard Span Even then, real interest doesn’t often reveal itself until July rolls around and desperation doesn’t kick in until later that month. That’s when teams convince themselves that they need a toolsy lead-off hitting center fielder or a versatile switch-hitting back up catcher with a little pop, especially if they’ve got team-friendly contracts. For guys with big contracts, the “time” to trade them might not come around until August, after the non-waiver deadline passes. That’s when desperation really sets in and teams become willing to take on big contracts and overpay in prospects, if they think the guy could help them bring home some sort of championship this year. I think we all understand the reality of 2012. Every GM in baseball will have Terry Ryan on speed dial and Ryan is going to make some deals. I don’t especially like that, but it’s the reality that comes with being an underperforming last place team. But that doesn’t mean I want him giving away every veteran on the ballclub without getting guys who are pretty damn close to being Major League ready in return. Some people may be willing and even eager to ship current players off for a couple of “organization players” who will never be more than roster fillers for Rochester or New Britain (or whoever next year’s AAA and AA Twins affiliates are). I am not one of those people. I want… I expect… to see a much better product on the field next season and if Ryan can’t get players in trade that should be expected to contribute to this team being more competitive in 2013, then I’d just as soon see the Spans, Doumits, Morneaus and Willinghams still wearing Twins uniforms next year. And nobody is offering that level of talent, especially the potential top of the rotation pitching talent the team desperately needs most, on May 30. So how about we just stop with the, “Twins need to trade so-and-so right now,” crap? No, they don’t. - JC (All photos: Jim Crikket, Knuckleballs)

The Royals have succeeded in pairing their "Carolina Blue" jerseys with white pants, so the Twins could do that too. Use the "throwback" pants they had in Target Field's first season. That said, I'm not a big fan of the blue. If it must be brought back, I suggest bringing it back as a punishment for poor play. Any time the Twins lose 3 games in a row, they should be REQUIRED to wear the blue uniforms until they win... a way of telling them, "if you're going to play like losers, you're going to look like losers." Similarly, they should only be allowed to wear the cream '60s throw back uniforms when they've won at least a couple games in a row.

I'm hoping for the best for Manship. He's certainly put in his time. But the bottom line is that if he can't make THIS Twins pitching staff, his chances of making any MLB staff seem remote.