biggentleben

Pastornicky? What about him? He's been a bench player since May. The only reason Simmons didn't make more starts at short was an injury after he came up. He would have beat out Brendan Ryan for the Fielding Bible Awards had that injury not happened. Heck, Pastornicky didn't even lead the team in starts at shortstop in 2012, he was third behind Paul Janish and Andrelton Simmons.

The comment was pasted into the Willingham thread, and it never said Span was "the top" of the list, just that he would be high on the list.

Only thing is Burton doesn't carry much value with a full bullpen already, at least not enough to include two prospects. If they were going to do something with a guy like Carroll, they'd just use Janish or Pastornicky. Value-wise, it'd be even, but it doesn't match up with the Braves' needs. Is that TRULY even Value wise? Burton and Carroll have like zero trade value to be honest, and Doumit, while a nice player is much better suited for the AL these days as he would not be an every day guy in the NL. Player-wise, no, but you have to realize the tight finances that the Braves in and how important cash would be to them. That said, all four guys the Twins would give up have proven to some level their performance expectation at the MLB level. Hanson is the only one who has enough track record for that on the Braves side. I just don't see it working for the reasons I mentioned just a post ago.

Those were the two that made it a no-go in my book actually. Like I said earlier, consider the source on the article you posted. The Braves have actually refused him media credentials in the past, despite having one of the 2-3 longest running Braves blogs/forums on the internet. Multiple blogs that have started up in the last two years have received those same credentials. The Braves still value Hanson fairly high, and all reports from inside and outside the organization is that there is a lot of high-level interest in him. Ahmed is probably not going to achieve MLB status until he's 25ish, but he's someone that the organization regards very highly. According to rumors, he was part of the reason for backing out of one deadline deal this year. He's what would seem like a perfect future utility guy, and it's highly doubtful that the Braves will consider moving him until he fails a level. He made a big jump (2 levels) this year and held his own. I'd wager he'll go up step by step from here, but he's very highly regarded by the organization, so he's going to be tough to get involved in a deal. I guess from the upside/downside for both players, I've thought Hanson/Span makes way too much sense for both teams for it not to get done.

As time goes by, everybody tires, the little fast guys slow down but the big guys stay big. Fangraphs had a great study this year that showed that stolen bases may dip, but defense really doesn't for speed guys until late in their 30s.

From MLBTR today: The Braves are looking at center field options to replace Michael Bourn and the Twins' Denard Span "is likely high on the list of potential trade target," writes David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. The Braves and Twins match up well as trade partners, as Minnesota is desperate for pitching and Atlanta is one of the few teams with available young arms. The Braves "haven’t entirely given up" on re-signing Bourn, but the club is unlikely to match the demands from Bourn and agent Scott Boras. Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/nl-east-notes-span-hamilton-wright-upton.html#dMfMDqeCqLOO1dbk.99

Seems pretty awful for the Braves. They get Span and crap. I was trying to be nice

Only thing is Burton doesn't carry much value with a full bullpen already, at least not enough to include two prospects. If they were going to do something with a guy like Carroll, they'd just use Janish or Pastornicky. Value-wise, it'd be even, but it doesn't match up with the Braves' needs.

Um, no, Simmons is the starter and nearly the most untouchable player on the Braves.

Yep, I know gondeee's viewpoints quite well. He's always been very anti-Hanson and very alarmist about him, suggesting in 2009 that JA Happ was by far the better long term pitcher. He's is VERY against Hanson's motion, so he weighs things that way. But even in that article, he didn't directly compare it to Jurrjens - which it isn't at all. Jurrjens never had velocity. He just forgot how to hit the strike zone. He said it could end up a similar situation - a high paid player who isn't good enough to be in the rotation anymore, much like Derek Lowe, Kenshin Kawakami, and Jair Jurrjens have been in the last 3 years. For the Braves, that could simply be because they have better rotation options, frankly, not because of anything wrong with Hanson. Jurrjens had plenty of velocity. He use to be 91-93, topping out at 96. Now he's 88-90 topping out at 92. Here's his PitchFx page. There is a pretty solid comparison there considering the velocity drops and injuries. Jurrjens' knee and Hanson's shoulder. I wouldn't mind gambling on Hanson, but there's high risk there. Jurrjens was still quite effective at lower velocity along as he was precise with his command. He was a mid 6 k/9 guy, so his stuff was never swing and miss. Hanson has relied on swing and miss, so it's a very different thing.

Wow. You really think they'd include one of the top 3-5 prospects in their system along with their most proven rookie arm for Willingham? Not so much.

Turner Field is considered the most neutral park in baseball over long-term results. There's not a hitter involved here. The Braves would be moving pitching for Willingham, then the Twins would need to get another RH bat. That's what the tweet said.

AJC comments make STrib comments look very intelligent.

Here's a Link to an article mostly about Hanson. Yep, I know gondeee's viewpoints quite well. He's always been very anti-Hanson and very alarmist about him, suggesting in 2009 that JA Happ was by far the better long term pitcher. He's is VERY against Hanson's motion, so he weighs things that way. But even in that article, he didn't directly compare it to Jurrjens - which it isn't at all. Jurrjens never had velocity. He just forgot how to hit the strike zone. He said it could end up a similar situation - a high paid player who isn't good enough to be in the rotation anymore, much like Derek Lowe, Kenshin Kawakami, and Jair Jurrjens have been in the last 3 years. For the Braves, that could simply be because they have better rotation options, frankly, not because of anything wrong with Hanson.

Really good insight on David O'Brien, Ben. Thanks. And it's great that you are able to respond to some of these questions. It's worth noting on similar threads. It might pay when there is a thread involving another team that we reach out to any fans/writers of that team with a link to give their thoughts. No problem! And thanks! I'm honestly not a huge fan of the two major Braves beat writers, O'Brien with the Atlanta Journal Constitution and Mark Bowden through mlb.com. DOB tends to be way too much sunshine and abhorrence for statistics. Bowden is anti-everything. I'd prefer a more fair and balanced view on the team.

Hanson and Teheran, possibly, maybe on Delgado/Teheran, and no on Minor/Teheran on likelihood of those happening. And it'd certainly be Span over Revere. If we can get two pitchers back, I would definitely approve trading Span and Willingham. It would make a lot of sense financially for the Braves. I like Hanson but he has horrible mechanics and has lost close to 4 MPH from his fastball in the last 2 years. I think he's worth the gamble but there's a lot of risk there. Braves fans are worried about him being the next Jurrjens. I'd prefer Teheran over Delgado because of the higher ceiling but I would take either one as the other pitcher. To replace Willingham's power you can sign Jonny Gomes .262/.377/.491 this past season in Oakland. He has severe splits but you can have Gomes, Parmelee, Morneau and Doumit for 1B/LF/DH/Bench bat. Move Revere to CF and sign a 1 year RF: Melky Cabrera or Grady Sizemore, Nate McLouth, Nate Schierholtz platooned with Mastroianni. Good core of young pitchers: Teheran, Gibson, Diamond, Hanson, Hendriks On Hanson - I've not heard Braves fans on any of the team forums I frequent compare him at all to Jurrjens. Hanson's mechanics are what they are, no argument there, but the MPH off his fastball were as much an organizational focus as any issue with Hanson. He has had some very sideways quotes on the method of working in a hard two-seamer rather than his four-seamer. Brandon Beachy bought into the program hard, and he had phenomenal success. His barely-used arm succumbed to the rampant use of the last couple of years. Hanson could mostly use a change of scenery, not because he's a bad apple, but because he's not pitching to his strength. I've felt through the whole year that attempting to create sink in his motion slowed his arm action. I don't have the technology to prove it, but I believe that 1. he lost velocity because of the new pitch strategy, and 2. he had a tip when he threw his four-seamer, which often rode up high in the zone. Basically, following the Bauer thread, it's a very similar case with Hanson. I think he's still got a ton of value, but you can't sell a pitcher with an ERA like he carried and sell him as an ace.

I really hope you're kidding. Simmons is probably the 2nd or 3rd most unmovable player on the Braves. Behind Heyward and maybe Freeman. No way would Simmons move for anyone short of a superstar. The only trade rumor where he's been mentioned without it being laughable is for Justin Upton.

Oh? Just ahead of her first election, she used wrongly prosecuting someone I know as a sign of her fight against violence against females. Problem was that the girlfriend was the abuser and a borderline personality disorder. She filed three felony charges on the guy and forced him to plea down to a charge that ended his career. She knew her client was a liability and didn't want to put her on the stand. She later laughed with the guy's lawyer about how she would have been screwed if the guy had the money to see it through.

She's pretty liberal, but she's also a genuinely good person, pretty respectable. Leaves a lot to be desired for me personally, but not opposed to her being re-elected. Had personal interaction with her that would never, ever have me labeling her "good" or "respectable". That's all.

Can't see either one being available for Willingham alone, however. I cannot disagree - but it would be nice... for the Twins that is. Yeah, just that Medlen has replaced Vizcaino in the "Four Horsemen" of the Braves that will take an incredible deal to pry away - Medlen, Minor, Delgado, and Teheran.

Unless it's Hanson and someone like Aaron Northcraft, Gary Moran, Gus Schlosser, or David Hale, two pitchers just for Willingham isn't happening.

Can't see either one being available for Willingham alone, however.

Hanson and Teheran, possibly, maybe on Delgado/Teheran, and no on Minor/Teheran on likelihood of those happening. And it'd certainly be Span over Revere.

Not John, but as the resident Braves fan, I'll comment that Teheran stalemated at AAA this year after dominating as a 20 year old last year at the same level. He's still got the same upside, but he's shown some personality/attitude stuff that could be concerning. Prospecting types that focus more on stats than scouting have dropped Teheran off the face of the earth. Types that focus more on scouting still have dropped him significantly.

I cannot see at all that Delgado/Minor/Medlen would go for anything short of a CF replacement. DOB has been jonesing for Willingham for a long time, and he is a HORRIBLE writer at inserting his views as team views, so unless someone other than DOB put this out with a direct Wren quote, I'd not believe it if I were a Twins fan. Wren seems much, much more concerned about CF right now and will fill that first going by all his interviews this offseason.