jokin

Hah...! It does seem like he's destined to go out there in order to "keep his bat fresh" as the 5th OF, doesn it? But I looked it up... Murphy's too good for a mere corner OF spot. His only other position besides catcher in the minors was 3rd base- 37 games... so at least he's got that going for him

Uhh, were you not watching the Twins on a daily basis...? For all of his faults... he more than proved in 2015 that he could be far more than adequate as a placeholder until Buxton was ready.

So true. Why don't people actually look at the potential names likely to be on the opening day roster filling OF spots? And no proven CF. The options there are Rosario and Santana and/or the semi-inevitable bargain bin veteran signee. And then you have Arcia and perhaps Sano, who's never played there. You were right Chief, as of this moment, we know of only one for-sure real live actual OF, and no true CFer.

Strawman noted. (Dave and I don't see eye to eye on much of anything. But I think the case has been made that this is an unnecessarily questionable move- I don't like the exchange of dissimilar players or the relative ratios for success of both players. Pushing harder for one of the other two NY prospect catchers would have made a lot more sense.)

My only minor quibble with "whydidnt" is that the Twins are "hoping" for average, which is still less than a certainty to manifest itself, and that the other priority was filled, in that Murphy rather conveniently fits into the Twins traditional version of a budget-ball roster filler for the next two seasons.

I'm surprised at how many Twins fans don't understand the concept of "organizational inertia" and "past is prologue"- and how it epitomizes Twins' management.

If the Twins trade Plouffe for a veteran RP without an upside prospect included in the deal, then yeah, the board will blow up.

Care to wager on this actually happening?

That's the crux of it , isn't it. This wasn't exactly a mirror image trade of potentiality. In addition, it clearly lowers the Twins net talent level on the opening day roster.

Plus, you have to add to that the idea that Suzuki has management's trust in handling the pitching staff, and presumably the pitchers largely have that same level of trust. Are the Twins any time soon even remotely likely to hand over those responsibilities full-time to a 24 year old who has never been a major league regular? I fully expect Zuke to start at least 67% of the games (~110 games), just somewhere comfortably enough below the 485 PA threshold to avoid a union grievance.

Exactly. Haven't we seen enough BABIP-skewed small sample results from untested young prospects of our own? To then go out and assume in this case that "this time it's different" is a dangerous limb to step out on.

Are we sure about that? What if Hicks comes anywhere close to hitting his Steamer projection numbers?

Believe me, I hope I'm wrong and you're right, and Murphy maintains his .367 BABIP from the last two years, and ends up defensively far above where his current average-ish to mediocre numbers suggest he will be. But regardless , in either scenario or outcome, the net upgrade at catcher will not be sufficient to get the necessary upgrade at improving the Twins playoff fortunes- given the uncertainty created by once again throwing the OF defense into opening day upheaval.

And yet, both things COULD actually happen, and both things came about, or are related to, the Hicks trade. Funny that...

Of course, statistics are heavily based on regresion to the mean... for good reason.

He did say it, it disturbed me too, and that comment actually caused many to discuss the "Ryan" acquisition in the blogosphere. (And really, isn't it time for Pohlad to bring in a long-time baseball man from outside the organization to come in, evaluate, and make specific sweeping recommendations ahead of the inevitable transition away from the Terry Ryan era. God help this team if Antony becomes the next GM).`

TD immolation

What???? There is absolutely zero difference in our opinion about Hicks. I've probably been his biggest critic on TD. And I have been doing nothing but strictly "objectively looking at the deal." Which is why I don't like it. And I've repeatedly listed the reasons why. I'll do it yet again: 1) The Twins did not solve their problems at the catcher position. We all know that Suzuki is going to get the majority of the reps. 2) The Twins will most likely not get a fair value exchange in terms of WAR in 2016. 3) The Twins in all likelihood hurt their OF defense for at least the first couple of months of 2016. Assuming they do plan on being part of the postseason run, a few early season losses could again prove costly, like they did in 2015. 4) The Twins quite possibly sold too low on Hicks, when there were other ways to acquire their needs elsewhere. 5) And if the Twins didn't sell too low, so what? They at least would have retained some stability and flexibility in maintaining a level of competence in the OF defense. Now, for the short-term at least, the Twins are forced to turn to Rosario, Santana or an aging veteran to man CF. 6) The Twins have a horrible history in dealing starting-level CFers. Why do they always use them as their main source of currency with such a bad history in doing so? 7) One less candidate (on a team already very thin with lead-off types) to place at the top of the batting order when he was seeing the ball well. 8) You're right in agreeing to what I already stated. The Twins got younger by two years, acquiring two more years of a minimum wage player on the 25-man. IOW- Business as usual. 9) You're also right in agreeing to what I already stated. Both players have a lot of question marks attached to their player personas. But Hicks has the physical tools to blossom into something quite a bit better than Murphy can ever hope to aspire to. Given that, why settle for a hope and wishes that Murphy will pan out, when the need at his position needed more drastic action yielding more predictable chances for a successful upgrade?

Actually, we've had this discussion many times before, and these WAR projections are remarkably, sometimes frustratingly "in-the-ballpark" when all is said and done. (Remeber Mauer?) You sound more like you're wishcasting that something good will happen with Murphy and the Twins. I'd like to see something good happen with him, as well. We can only go with what we've seen from him thus far: no power in the minor leagues, and a high BABIP, no power and a Yankee Stadium-centric production level in the majors, along with mixed reviews of his defense. What we do know is that the Twins got a cheap asset at the minimum for the next two years and then 3 more years of control after that if things work out. All of this to say, this doesn't smack of some "aggressive" move by Ryan, as some allege (or wish) to be the case.

TJ isn't just any surgery. It definitely put Thorpe back in a little limbo until he gets back out on the mound.

Both Palacios and Wade were very nice surprises.

You missed the part about the case that was made for standing pat and letting Hicks build more value- if- this REALLY was the best offer they could possibly get for Hicks. I still say that pushing the Yankees on acquiring Samuel by throwing in a prospect as a counter offer would have been something Cashman might have chewed on and said yes to. The Twins main currency for making big trades has been CFers. So far, their track record using this currency has been dubious, at best- and left the team high and dry at a key spot without a legit Plan B in place. With 7 Top 100 prospects in the system, perhaps it was time to consider using the farm as currency to get a breakthrough deal?

Heh.... Amen.

I've never advocated foolishly going all-in. And BTW, this isn't all-or-nothing poker being played here I don't think any of the teams mentioned did that. Ryan, by direct contrast, barely put his toes in the water last summer.

Well... at least Nick was annoyed. I was delighted in not having to do the work myself.