jokin

The Rangers will probably go heavily after Bourn to replace Hamilton in CF. They would probably listen very hard to this deal if the Twins offered Morneau/Parmelee and Willingham.

Didn't Bobby Cuellar get that job in Pittsburgh, then was fired with the rest of the staff when Hurdle came in?[/QUOTE] So, are you saying this September promotion would be the kiss of death?

Foxtrax had it just off the corner, a "pitcher's pitch" that sometimes umps call, sometimes they don't. You could tell Vargas is feeling the pressure of both how he was pitching last night and likely about his up-in-the-air status with the Mariners, who are likely going to move on without him in 2013.

Did you miss the part where he indicted himself and took the blame? I don't think even he would disagree with your assessments of his actions (or lack thereof) within "all markets" up to this point, but that doesn't mean he can't get better. Last offseason he was guilty of being too confident in what he had. He won't make that same mistake again this winter. Actually, it was you! who missed the part where I initially stated that I admired Ryan for standing up and taking the blame, earlier in the thread. The forgiving nature of Minnesotans, fans and analysts alike is telling. This isn't a guy who is "learning on the job", seriously, do you really offer "he can get better" at this point in his career? In your own words, "he's guilty" , likely "agrees" with that assessment, and should be held accountable under his own "indictment". You quantify his managment effort this year as a single "mistake", yet it's demonstrable that he bumbled and muddled his way from crisis to crisis without a coherent plan throughout the 2012 season, taking multiple Don Quixote-esque Voyages in the hopes of "finding" phantom castoff and Rule 5 OFs, cutting and trading proven starters for essentially nothing (mediocrities, yes, but at least serviceable to get you through the season), re-signing and overpaying proven BP mediocrities, placing proven BP specialists into positions where they were predictably bound to fail, not taking the "risks" that he, himself, insisted he must take each time a potential starter became available for acquisition or claim, in-season.......need we go on?

No, signing good minor league free agents aren't going to bring a team from 95+ losses to 85+ wins. they're generally brought in to help the AAA team win more games and just be depth. Finding a minor league free agent to provide as much value as Jared Burton has is incredible. If Deduno pans out and can become a middle of the rotation starter, that would be incredible. TR knows that minor league F/A isn't the way to division titles. he's a very smart guy who keeps things close to the vest. I 100% agree with him that overpaying for anyone is crazy. The Twins will need quality starting pitchers to turn this around. That doesn't mean getting the $20 million guys. They never pan out. I think they need to grab 2-3 $6-8 million starters. A & E signs Terry Ryan to 13-week reality series Agreed, although it definitely won't happen, Seth. I would organize a parade for merely 2 Maholm/Bedard-level signings, a waiver deal by business-close tomorrow and a Minor League acquisition via trade, and Twins fans would be lucky if 1 out of 4 of those things occurs. This team and Ryan's philosophy for team-building is truly a "Storage Wars"-devotees dream.

The "Dude" De-du-no wrong last night

Paul Maholm shares few characteristics with Vargas. Maholm induces half his balls hit into the ground. Maholm's HR rate is far lower than Vargas. He also strikes out a few more guys (he's an NL pitcher, after all). Maholm has a better chance of succeeding in Target Field than Vargas, in my opinion. I'm not crazy about the guy but he could be a serviceable pitcher. He doesn't fall apart if he's pitching in a ballpark smaller than the Grand Canyon, that's for sure. I'm not crazy about either of the two, but the Twins would vastly improve their dire situation at SP by obtaining stopgap 200-inning arms while they take the necessary time to right the ship arms that likely won't break down- on short-term deals that are flippable if/when the timing is right.

I read the interview in the Star-Tribune too, and to be fair to him that's not what he said. He is all too aware the pitching staff needs improvement, and he specifically said that trades, FA, and internal development will all have to be part of the picture. He is not ruling out resigning Pavano and Baker, but he is not ruling out much else either, with the exception of going after an "elite FA" because of contract concerns, and personally I agree with him on that. Except that is exactly what he said: Souhan: "Do you feel a responsibility to get this organization back on its feet?" Ryan: "Absolutely. Totally. This is a team I believe in, and I'm at the helm. Our injuries have been less than those of most teams. The payroll is more than adequate. We've just got to get it right. I take responsibility for all of it. Even when it comes to injuries to the pitching staff during the season, you've got to be able to fix some of those things on the fly........"You have to be open to a lot of things when you're looking for starting pitching," he said. "You've going to have to take some risks and you're going to have to look at all markets, not just free agency, but trades and waivers and Rule 5s. But if you want to do it the correct way, that's going to provide stability over the long haul, you're going to have to draft and develop guys, too." "trades" Nope "waiver" Nope " draft and develop guys" Nope "Rule 5s" Yup, one.....Is this how you reach the Pitching Promised Land? Really??? "Free Agency" Nope... given Marquis, et al, do we really want to go there? "You've got to be able to fix things on the fly" Definitely Nope, Ryan's demonstrated a concerted Fear of Flying this season, coupled with the fact that there has been no Plan B since the team began the transition to the new ballpark, and they totally screwed up Plan A from square one by not building a team geared for success in Target Field (taking a ground ball- line drive- lefty bat warning track power-hitting team coupled with a team full of retread/hasbeen/never were SPs was a recipe for long-term failure) So you make the claim that Ryan implied there was "no need to upgrade the pitching staff with trades or FAs"...then go back to the claim saying it's "exactly what he said"....and prove it with a quote where he says the opposite? That was sorta weird. I'm trying to remember which trades and waiver deals Ryan has made to "fix some of those thing on the fly"........

Of course not. But, FWIW, Reusse put the chances at 2%, right after he made light of the prospect of such an event on Twitter with some moron-rube-baiting.

1) Agreed about Parmelee's defense, it hasn't been too good at 1B, for that matter. 2) Great, now who is that, exactly?

Where/when did he say that? Souhan article on 8/29: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/167784175.html "Ryan was blunt about a variety of subjects. He... * Would consider re-signing pending free-agent pitchers Scott Baker and Carl Pavano. * Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market and that he's averse to signing such pitchers to the long-term deals required to land them." and later, "You have to be open to a lot of things when you're looking for starting pitching," he said. "You're going to have to take some risks and you're going to have to look at all the markets, not just free agency, but trades and waivers and Rule 5s. But if you want to do it the correct way, that's going to provide stability over the long haul, you're going to have to draft and develop guys, too. Even when we had rotations that were darn good, we got them from about every avenue. We have to do the same thing moving forward here." ********* My problem with this is that he says you have to look at every avenue, yet he dismisses one of the avenues (free agency) with a hand wave. If we don't sign an upper tier free agent pitcher, we might as well chalk up next year as another sub .500 season, and perhaps another 90+ loss season, unless we get an upper tier pitcher through another source. Given it is unlikely to pick up an upper tier pitcher via the waiver wire or Rule 5, he's pretty much saying the only way we're getting an upper tier pitcher is via trade. In cutting deals, when you let your trading partners know you don't have any other option, that's called "tipping your hand". Can't we at least PRETEND we might throw a few bucks at a quality pitcher? No where in that article did Ryan say he wouldn't spend in free agency. All it says is that he won't go after "Elite pitchers". Since there is only really 1 elite pitcher on the market this year he really isn't saying much. On top of that he continues on to say that FA actually SHOULD be looked at to shore up the pitching. So again, where and when did he say he won't spend because it sure isn't that article. The payroll isn't expanding, it's contracting...therefore.... more Marquis signings and has-been retread re-signings, you won the argument, but what did you really win here?

Where/when did he say that? Souhan article on 8/29: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/167784175.html "Ryan was blunt about a variety of subjects. He... * Would consider re-signing pending free-agent pitchers Scott Baker and Carl Pavano. * Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market and that he's averse to signing such pitchers to the long-term deals required to land them." and later, "You have to be open to a lot of things when you're looking for starting pitching," he said. "You're going to have to take some risks and you're going to have to look at all the markets, not just free agency, but trades and waivers and Rule 5s. But if you want to do it the correct way, that's going to provide stability over the long haul, you're going to have to draft and develop guys, too. Even when we had rotations that were darn good, we got them from about every avenue. We have to do the same thing moving forward here." ********* My problem with this is that he says you have to look at every avenue, yet he dismisses one of the avenues (free agency) with a hand wave. If we don't sign an upper tier free agent pitcher, we might as well chalk up next year as another sub .500 season, and perhaps another 90+ loss season, unless we get an upper tier pitcher through another source. Given it is unlikely to pick up an upper tier pitcher via the waiver wire or Rule 5, he's pretty much saying the only way we're getting an upper tier pitcher is via trade. In cutting deals, when you let your trading partners know you don't have any other option, that's called "tipping your hand". Can't we at least PRETEND we might throw a few bucks at a quality pitcher? I think it was Seth who said it best when he characterized Ryan as remarkably even more conservative with the owner's money than the owner himself.

It's 100% and it is LAUGHABLE to see people taking this seriously. Good god. This non-story is akin to a Fox News political story in value. You would have convinced me if you had invoked MSNBC, instead.

This "standard thing" has been forever altered by a team from Los Angeles that has introduced Major League Baseball to a Brave New World. What they have wrought with the Boston Red Sox acquisitions may well turn out to be the most barbarically dumb decision ever if it invokes some kind of insane "arms (and bats) race".

Maybe Berrios should just schedule his TJ now to get it out of the way.

If the Twins want to make a big positive splash and fill up the ballpark on those September weeknights against KC and Cleveland (both AAA/AAAA teams, after all), they should call up all 4 and insert them in the starting lineup when their respective seasons end. What the heck, throw Buxton in there too.

If the Twins want to make a big positive splash and fill up the ballpark on those September weeknights against KC and Cleveland (both AAA/AAAA teams, after all), they should call up all 4 and insert them in the starting lineup when their respective seasons end.

Yes, you're entirely out of line here. There is a secret master plan which includes Terry Ryan misdirection and double-speak during press interviews and it isn't polite to question or challenge the braintrust as they continue along, executing the "simple stuff" the Twins Way. It was like going through three waiver wire OFs in April and May, when they had Ben Revere right there the whole time.....Like figuring out that Danny Valencia can't play 3B anymore two years later, and then turning to Plouffe out of sheer desperation.....Cutting Diamond to the Minor League camp practically on the first day of Spring Training....and most like opening up all the mega-marketing opportunities to Japan by signing Nishioka to a 3-year mega-deal when you had one of the best SS in baseball already, and then throwing it back in the fans faces in early August, calling back Nishi, who immediately proceeded to perpetrate likely the biggest MLB farce since Bill Veeck signed Eddie Gaedel 60 years ago.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/19370818/lee-county-gets-15-million-grant-for-twins-stadium Gotta think the announcement will come in September

c) Gives Ryan a sense of where the opinion shapers and fanbase really would be if such a trade were pursued in earnest later on. So the self-confident, seasoned veteran and prime exponent of the "Twins Way" has resorted to manage via trial balloon? Not much of a master plan.

You're right, I just wanted to illustrate the continued Twins flailing.

Shocker, the Twins certainly executed their backup plan flawlessly by getting Parmelee plenty of reps in Roc. More importantly, how did Span's MRI go this morning? Is he still listed day to day, a DL candidate, or shut down for the year?

Future Shock or Rinse and Repeat (the real Twins mantra) Case in point regarding "the means to spend" argument which the Twins are in the process of completely blowing up: The Baltimore Orioles- on a hot streak, hottest team in August-playing 16-8 baseball, a .667 clip, revived from the dead for years on end to competitive, third best record in the AL, the best record in one-run games in baseball, only 3.5 games behind the best team in the league, the Yankees, playing in one of the best parks in all of baseball- Camden Yards, playing a first place team in the White Sox- with a Cy Young favorite on the mound, Chris Sale perfect night for baseball in Baltimore drew all of 12,841 fans last night. I realize that Baltimore has become a quick target when people want to talk about how fans stay away despite a beautiful ballpark and, now, a competitive team. However, this week's attendance is not indicative of any such thing. There were actually a couple thousand fewer people at their game on Monday night, I believe, but the low attendance is not really indicative of fan apathy. The orioles have had over 1.6 million fans in 2012, averaging 25,337 per game. That's not great... 23rd among MLB teams... but then the White Sox, who lead the AL Central are currently ranked 24th, behind Baltimore. Attendance is actually over 15% higher on a per game basis (nearly 3,400 more fans per game) compared to last season. The unusually low attendance this week is likely due to the week-long construction process of the race course for the Baltimore Grand Prix this weekend. Starting this past Saturday, a lot of the roads adjacent to and around Camden Yards are being closed and re-routed to allow for the contruction of the Grand Prix course through the streets of the Harbor area. A lot of the locals aren't even bothering to try to get to their offices in the area this week because of the traffic and parking restrictions, much less trying to get down to Camden for a ballgame. Baltimore is indeed a cautionary tale for Twins ownership, indicating that a nice ballpark alone won't put butts in the seats forever. But it is incorrect to use Baltimore as an example of a fanbase that won't come back even for a competitive team. They may not be filling the stadium at this point, but there are a lot of teams (including the Twins) that would love to be seeing a 15% increase in attendance. History of Baltimore attendance : 2001: 38.8 (000) Rank overall: 5th 2002: 33.1 10th 2003: 30.3 12th 2004: 34.3 12th 2005: 32.4 14th 2006: 26.6 20th 2007: 27.0 23rd 2008: 25.0 24th 2009: 23.5 21st 2010: 21.7 24th 2011: 21.9 26th 2012: average attendance in August in the thick of the race with the hottest team in baseball- 21.5! Thanks for the info about the Grand Prix situation, but that still leaves them with a poor August attendance result, especially considering they are playing at a .667 clip this month. The White Sox have always been, and will always be, the orphan team in Chicago. Interestingly, the Twins attendance graph over the same time period is exactly the opposite to the Orioles. If the Twins go through a process similar to the Orioles, expect the serial spiraling down of attendance and payroll to continue for years to come. The Orioles are finally trying hard to take advantage of the Red Sox collapse and avoid losing fans to the Nats, I wish the sense of urgency would be replicated in Minnesota.

How many crimes are ever prosecuted RB? Gardy's already got Span's current bench seat reservation fitted for Parmelee's "battling tail" as soon as Span is ready to go.