jokin

In regards to: A) Thanks for explaining to me what my position is. In point of fact, your fevered imagination and stultifying knee-jerk defense of your cocktail crowd had grossly mischaracterized it- to the point that your posts are becoming a self-parody of the Anti-Conspiracy-Conspiracist. Earth to Birdwatcher- Dr. Evil was a parody-figure and Terry Ryan is not Stavro Blofeld, either. As hard as it is for you to believe in your cloistered world, there are rational Twins fans out there that understand that the MN Twins are a business, and that there are sound reasons for making the decisions that were outlined in Points 1 and 2. Just because some fans might prefer a different direction, it doesn't make them "right" or the Twins FO "evil", come down off your high horse, already. "Other factors open for dispute"? The evidence is clear that high-priced salaries were purposefully being swept from the books- and that FA with actual impact talent were not going to be even sought after, let alone signed. You yourself once stated that you would join me if the Twins failed to make a legitimate effort to acquire legitimate impact SP talent, we all know the result. Of course, it follows that your next statement is a complete non-sequitur. It's difficult to try to make any comprehensible sense out of this mish-mash, other than an obtusely feeble attempt at be"littl"ing the facts staring at you from straight across the table. C) Smith's ouster, soon after his initial vote of confidence from Jim Pohlad has widely been reported to be based on Smith wanting to continue in the same direction concerning the payroll and JP having the final vote. Did you hear something different at an offseason Pohlad soiree'? If so, it's time for you to do some reporting. D) Mis-statement of my actual factual statement: To wit, "Has Ryan- shed salary, found replacements and attempted to maintain cash flow?" Yup. E) Does anyone- but of course, yourself and the Pauline Kael-esque high brow set- doubt that how the Twins have dealt with almost every pending high-price FA in the past is indicative of how they will behave in the future? It is factual that the Twins have ready and very cheap replacements at First Base and DH. It is factual that the Twins "play the game" about re-signing their top-dollar players who have matured beyond their arb years- but push below-the-market offers to do so. The evidence around the league suggests that the demand for Morneau's services at his existing salary structure is soft and that comparables are earning less- and much less- when there's the ever-looming danger that a soft slide into second base will result in catastrophic and uninsurable injury. F) In light of this FAIL on your part, I'm still waiting for your "call-out", (Usually a call-out requires documentable counter-arguments, must have slipped your mind). If you prefer to have your "bunk"mates do your dirty work, have your "others" get back to my "others", brother Twins fan.

Is that supposed to be a criticism?, or simply a function of the lack of late-night traffic might suffice as the explantion?

You've just nailed the best-case scenario, hopefully it comes to pass.

It's always a good thing to trade a player at his perceived maximum value, and not when your team's circumstances, and/or the player's ineptitude force the issue. GM 101. Don't tell me that the Twins didn't have their chances on moving Liriano multiple times previously.

And so was Corey Koskie....or did you forget?

Cite the evidence that makes any of your proposals more than a pathetic entry to the Make-A-Wish Foundation that, when passed on to the Twins, would undoubtedly end up in the circular file over at 1 Twins Way. You do realize that concussion risk never goes away, right? Serious diminishment of value, regardless of his on-field performance. Cite a comp trade for an older 1B with serious concussion issues that yielded a big-time prospect. When was the last time the Twins extended a legit QO? When was the last time that the Twins ate a contract to get the prospect that they wanted?

Nice job, calling facts "bunk" does not an argument to the counter-point make. Please try again and attempt to descredit one fact-based assertion presented, if you dare. Let me help you with an outline: 1) Is the team getting younger? Check 2) Is the payroll on a downward trajectory, as the club stated it would do? Check 3) Was Smith out when he wanted to increase payroll?Check 4) Has Ryan- shed salary, found replacements and attempted to maintain cash flow?Check 5) Based on the Twins machinations and potential cheap hole-fillers at positons Justin can play, is Morneau likely to be in on the Twins future plans without a significant paycut? Check Have at an attempt at de"bunk"ing, if you can.

Yeah, because a guy with a higher OBP and a higher SLG than the "speedy" guy, who thus produces more total bases, and thusly, more run-scoring opportunities, and then, oh yeah, justifiably batting more often at the top of the lineup and getting more PAs to achieve the multiplier effect, will have nothing to do with the higher runs-scored totals.

That's why OPS is a better representation of run-producing productiviy and easily more quantifiable, than "speed".

As I've illustrated in other threads, I like the AL East's collective approach to the #2 batter- OPS, not speed is their imperative for the 2-Hole. Though the difference in run production wasn't as dramatic as it usually has been- given Boston had a major down year, and JJ Hardy had an uncharacteristic BABIP meltdown- the AL East continued to be the biggest run producers in 2012, and all take the exact opposite tack to Gardy's approach of a preference for speed and bunting ability in the 2-spot. AL East#2 hitter OPS: .730 Average Runs Scored: 733 AL West#2 hitter OPS: .698 Average Runs Scored: 727 AL Cent#2 hitter OPS: .688 Average Runs Scored: 703

A lot of people posting these days who turned in their objectivity at the door when ST opened up and have their Twins Wish-O-Meter set at "Eleventy" ever since: "Gibson is our Ace and it would be a travesty to send him back down to AAA!"/ "After his breakout season last year, let's just put Arcia in RF now!"/ "Looking at his ST BA, it's a given that Rosario is our best Second Baseman and will be called up in July!"/ "I was all for trading Morneau, but he is fully recovered from his injuries and is dominant again!"/

Of course, you left out the Oakland Athetics first vintage 3-peat dynasty in the 70s. Neary to a man, they virtually all hated each other, except they were united in all hating Reggie Jackson worse, and Charlie Finley even worse than Reggie.

Just for the record, and I think this is the issue that the poster is concerned about: In the WBC elim. game, Mauer came up in the 8th with runners on 2nd and 3rd and took a 2-0 pitch for a strike, which according to gamecast, was a meatball right down the middle of the plate, a little high. Contrary to poster Oldcap's assertion, this was the only really hittable pitch in the AB, as he fouled off a couple of corner strikes before working the BB. A hit in that situation might have been significant in changing the outcome, which Torre ultimately ruined by not PHing with right-hand batters against Romero.

I think I understand that Morneau has made significant strides to a return towards being as fully recovered from his last concussion as he can be. I'm still not certain that the average fan appreciates his long ordeal enough. He did look better in the 2nd half last year, the first half had people howling to make a part-time platoon player out of a $14M investment. He had 2 months where he resembled the Justin of old and 4 months where he just looked rusty- and just old. And that's my point, the Twins are likely to move on, via midseason trade (although Ryan hasn't proved he can make a deadline "sellers" deal that would actually help the club long-term, should be interesting what kind of offer would motivate him to pull the trigger)- or refusing to make a QO, whichever way his season shakes out- great or pedestrian- and go with someone younger and cheaper, unless he's willing to take a salary cut. I think Morneau thinks he still has the juice left in the tank for one more decent contract- he recently mentioned the Blue Jays as his desired location- perhaps at a "Canadian-Born Discount"?

How soon can we convince Person B to buy the Twins?

What? More Twins nepotism? I'm shocked, shocked.

To make clear, I'm not a Morneau hater. If he comes back to his old form, nothing would please me more. The reality is, the direction the team is headed towards is getting a lot younger with legit, minimum-wage, cost-controlled prospects champing at the bit at Morneau's 2 potential positions. The evidence is overwhelming that this is coupled with a return to an overall lean, mean payroll- ie, Smith was out when he actually thought ownership meant it about an open checkbook- Ryan was brought back to shed salary, find cheaper, reliable replacements in the process and keep a positive cash flow until the next up-cycle. It's highly unlikely, no matter how well Justin performs, that Morneau is considered to be part of the pending up-cycle, unless he willingly takes Ryan's lowball offer.

You refute one small sample size argument used against your point by citing yet another? I know that doesn't work in your college classes, professor. Or if it does, no wonder you try to cease the debate by yelling "stop".

Except the trending imperative since 2010 has been to let pending FAs walk or trade for little in return (Liriano) and cut payroll. As intriguing as it might be, I doubt playing QO poker with Morneau is a game that Ryan is willing/able to participate in.

Setting the bar low, smart move RB!

The relevance is the situation wherein the the Twins FO is making the Twins irrelavant through their questionable signings based on guys "better than the numbers indicate", resurrectional and reclamation pick-ups and Ryan's pathetic "woe is me" anti-marketing campaign in "selling" the Twins as a destination to prospective FAs and their agents. The ironic thing is, he proved he can identify value and sign cheap replacement position players if he has a mind to, this year, nada.

Well-stated, what's that saying again about old dogs and new tricks? That the average Twins fan apparently accepts this after 2 seasons of utter inpetitude is mind-boggling. Or is the apathy factor bigger than apparent on the surface? Clearly, the televised media has largely ignored the Twins this spring, even with all the in-season ineptitude happening with the other sports entertainment options.

It's really quite simple. Look up the Twins transaction history in the offseason. A flurry of activity, signings, trades, "staffing maneuvers", (of course, masking the big excision in payroll).... in October, November and throughout December. January and February? Re-signed Duensing and Butera and the Raising of the Dead Resurrectional, "he's fully healthy and a starter!", signing of Perez at the start of ST. It has all the hallmark of a month long or so "well-deserved" vacation in the front office that had chosen to "put their affairs in order", ala 2013 Puntage-Style.

So does this mean we'll be trading Deduno to the Mariners for Jair Fernandez, or releasing him so the Mets can sign him to their starting rotation a few months later?

I've been singing from the Filler Ds songbook the whole offseason. This search for a "pretty darn good FA pitcher" really was the long, strange trip to nowhere.