Riverbrian

51 Years Old... Married 26 years with 2 Sons in College. I've been a faithful Twins Fans since I sprung into consciousness. Herb Carneal was perhaps my favorite Twin since he was the connection to them in my youth. It was Herb telling me what was happening that cemented my roots in the Twins. Rod Carew was my first Twins hero and still ranks #1 on my list but there are very few Twins that I didn't like (Delmon Young). After Carew... Hrbek... Johan,.. Kirby... Mauer would round out my top five. For the most part... put the uniform on and I will have your back. I enjoyed every inning of Nick Punto because he played for MY TEAM and Yes... you should have no illusions... The Twins are MY TEAM!!! I Grew up in Thief River Falls which is about the only place in Minnesota that is at least an hour away from any decent lake. For the past 25 plus years... I've been living in Grand Forks which is about the only place on earth that is at least an hour away from any decent tree. I'm bad with specific years so I'm not sure when I started with Twins Daily. It is Seth Stoh's fault that I'm here since I followed him over. Why do I come back to TD? Because... the normal folks that I spend my time with during the course of the day can't converse at the level of Twins or Baseball that I require. I have invested a lot of my lifetime reading and watching baseball... I need someplace... just like this.

Andrew Friedman The guy came from Wall Street... Schooled and practiced in Positive Arbitrage. The guy gets up in the morning just so he can acquire players for less than they worth.

Perfectly logical post in my opinion.

The landscape will change by the deadline. Pedroia could be hurt... Walker might be hitting .210... Baker may convince the Nats Front Office that Murphy needs to move to 1st Base because between Zimmerman and Murphy too many balls are getting into right field... The Rays may shock the world with that pitching staff returning to form and suddenly realize that they need immediate offense to hold off the rest of the American League East.

Agree with you completely. I'll add before the Gomez/Fiers deal with the Astros... Gomez was shipped to the Mets in a deal involving Zach Wheeler who was the 6th rated prospect in 2012 and enough innings to show he was indeed a major league caliber pitcher. Gomez was also 29 years old Gomez was 1.5 years from free agency and with about the same amount of dollars coming his way. Gomez had an OPS of .751 at the time of the trade and that number was nearly a .100 point drop. The Dodgers need to get serious or watch Falvey/Levine Walk Away. I'd rather watch us choke on Dozier before letting the Dodgers get him for the prospects they are comfortable letting go because we have a new front office in some sort of pitching panic.

Where you and I are going to differ in opinions... and please forgive me if I'm wrong because I'm not trying to put words in your fingertips. You seem to be sure that Dozier is going to regress and DeLeon is going to progress and that seems to be driving you toward taking the deal. My opinion is that the current gulf between what Dozier is producing in the majors right now and what DeLeon has produced in the majors thus far is too large to justify. Making a trade like that is trading out of desperation and exactly what teams like the Dodgers are going to feed on to stay strong and keep the other team poor. You seem to feel that we can't afford to let this opportunity pass and I feel that we cant' afford a Dozier for Alex Meyer like deal and nobody knows if DeLeon is Alex Meyer Part II. Especially when it is your only decent trade chip. I strongly believe that you help minimize that extreme risk by picking up multiple quality prospects to increase the odds that at least one turns into what they are supposed to be. Being sincere about being OK keeping Dozier is our leverage because as long as the Dodgers think we have to trade Dozier... they can sit there and keep the price low. Big Bank take Little Bank. If it's just for DeLeon... and I know nothing about DeLeon... We would be better off keeping Dozier and taking a different approach back to respectability. I'd be disappointed but there is no way I'm handing the Dodgers someone who is potentially their best hitter for a single prospect who happens to be the best of the prospects that they are willing to trade. Here's another thing where we may differ... Dozier had a great year and after a year like that... I would bet there is some regression. However... there are degrees to that possible regression. Maybe he hits 36 Home Runs next year. Nobody can rule that out. Regression Yes... Valuable Yes. I would like to see Dozier traded right now for maximum payoff (years of control... 42 home runs... all of that)... I'm OK getting prospects in return. But if it is prospects... they gotta be good and it has to be plural. I won't do a straight up deal for just whatever with unknown major league value. . If the Dodgers want to keep their prospects... Let Em. Walking away is how you counter and stand up to the man.

My premise may indeed be off. We are all out of our depth when it comes to value assessment... I will certainly claim that I am... if others aren't. I also don't believe I used the word "worthless" either. In my way of thinking... If the Dodgers want him... Well? Asking for more isn't out of the ordinary. Out of curiosity... If Dozier is a "B" Rated player... What is DeLeon?

Well then the answer is pretty easy. The Dodgers should simply offer DeLeon to the other 29 teams and simply take the 2nd baseman that they like best from all the teams that say Yes. I think it's quite possible that the Dodgers like Dozier the best and the reason is that other teams and the Twins don't view him the way you do. The best leverage the Twins have isn't the Cards or Nats or Giants in play. The best leverage the Twins have is simply being willing to keep Dozier. I can't understand why there are so many on this discussion board that are willing to give that away.

It's like Butch Cassidy said "It's the fall that'll kill ya"

The Cards can play the game just like all the others. The Twins leak information that the Cards are interested. The Twins must do this to let the Dodgers to know that they are not the only team in the league. In response: The Cards leak information that they are not. The Cards must do this because they must support their current roster in case they don't land Dozier. Next: The Cards will probably get information out about how they really like the talent on their existing roster. Maybe go as far as singling out and pumping up Wong publicly to let him know that they believe in him and to let the Twins know publicly that he would be a great addition in any trade package. This stuff goes on every year and it's leaked on purpose. Just part of the process... Nobody on the outside is right or wrong yet.

The Cards have gotten creative like this many times. The Cards and Cubs are teams that don't worry about position log jams. Having a 2B doesn't stop them from picking up a better one and moving pieces around to accommodate I certainly believe this could be legit. Bottom line... the Cards need more power. Same report says the Giants are getting creative. Maybe working on a 3 team deal. Love the leaking or whatever it is... I think Falvey and Levine should say Giants about 100 times a day to the media. .

I apologize... I changed my comment entirely and while I was doing so you posted a response to the original.

For the record. I don't want any position players in the package. It dilutes the amount of arms needed and I have no idea who the Dodgers have deemed untouchable. I also have no idea who I want specifically because I am not qualified to determine who I should want and feel it is dangerous to project players based on what unknown sources have written. And my diatribes were not born from Twins Daily forums alone but yeah... It's been cumulative and I am railing against multiple comments... from the Dozier Regression Kings to the Alvarez is gonna rule the world and therefore not available club.

I agree with Chief... money should not be an issue. However... I want the draft pick. I personally endured a 103 loss season and the draft positions were my reward for tolerating all of that.

In 2016... The numbers produced by Dozier would have led the 2016 Dodgers in OPS Slugging OWAR Total Bases Home Runs RBI's Stolen Bases Triples (Tied) And been 2nd in AB's 2nd in Runs 2nd in Doubles and been 3rd in Walks 3rd in Games Played I believe 2016 Brian Dozier would have been the best offensive player on the 2016 Dodgers. I believe if you compared Brian Dozier 2016 Numbers Side by Side with Corey Seager... You'd have to give the edge to Brian Dozier. What is the value of trading a contending team their top hitter?

Kinda but not really at all. I understand that this deal is going to involve prospects. I'm saying that Dozier is undervalued anytime an unproven at the MLB level prospect is deemed by anyone as better and therefore untouchable in a deal for Dozier. I'm saying that every time someone says that the Dodgers would never trade unproven prospect X or unproven prospect Y... it becomes more and more like a pawn shop transaction because someone is desperate for the 20 bucks he just got for that fairly new $300 X-Box... OR... Or... Steve Martin in "The Jerk" explaining that the winner can select from this shrinking small section of the prizes in view. I'm saying... every time someone says trade him or this off season is a failure... or anytime someone says Brian Dozier is going to turn into a pumpkin at midnight... it is like pushing Falvey/Levine to go see Bo Diddley in "Trading Places" while dressed in the same Dan Aykroyd outfit with a second baseman that is water resistant in three atmospheres. I'm saying that allowing the Dodgers to keep the players they want to keep and forcing the Twins to choose from a lesser pool of unproven prospects is how the Dodgers get everything they want and the Twins end up settling for the best that they could do and if you keep making deals like that you will never get to be Donald Trump. I'm saying that Brian Dozier hit 40 plus home runs last year and the guys who do that are getting big money on the open market... The Other Team doesn't get to narrow our choices down to erasers and Chiclets and we should just walk past that carnival booth. (Pause while all of that sinks in) It's also possible that I'm overvaluing Brian Dozier. I don't do this for a living.

IMO... you are doing it in this post when you say. "To give prospects" Alvarez not available... I've read that quite a few times. If it's a prospect yet to prove himself. For Dozier they are on the table or Dozier is off the table. IMO of course.

I agree And some absolute under valuing of last year and the entire career by others. Under valuing to the point that some feel that the Dodgers should be able to hold back the cream of the unproven prospects forcing the Twins to pick among the minor league kinda above average and be happy about it. Talk about Big Bank take Little Bank. If Falvey/Lavine make that type of trade... the honeymoon is over. I don't want Falvey/Levine making a desperate deal because of some self imposed arbitrary time clock set for opening day. He just hit 42 home runs. The other team pays or you walk.

If the Dodgers feel the same way you do. The Answer is quite simple. The Dodgers should take the offer that is on the table for Dozier and offer it to other teams. This fair offer for a 11th or 15th ranked 2B like Dozier and call the other teams and offer it to them for a 2B in return. Call the Brewers and offer the very same package for Villar. The Brewers need pitching so why not? If the Twins are unreasonable... Walk away. Show the Twins the value of the current Dodgers offer by acquiring someone else with the same package.

I agree that Dozier should be dealt right now because the Twins need pitching and more pitching after that and more pitching after that. BUT... If the Dodgers want Dozier and want the Twins to assume the risk of minor league talent in return and still want to be able to keep their preferred minor league talent. The Twins should walk away. It's the Dodgers who are trying to add that final piece of the puzzle for serious contention. Any price the Dodgers are willing to pay for Dozier right now should be enough to land them any other 2B in the league if it's truly fair value. If the Dodgers are offering X amount for Dozier and it's supposedly fair value and the Twins won't take it... Go ahead... take that same package and offer it to the Rockies for LeMahieu... or to the Marlins for Gordon... or the Tigers for Kinsler... or to the Orioles for Schoop because the Twins are clearly unreasonable not taking it. Why hasn't that happened? Could it be possible that the Dodgers want Dozier? Could it be possible that the Rockies won't give up LeMahieu for that very same package the Twins have been offered for Dozier. He's a top 3 2B... Pay Up.

LOL Yeah... it does... I got myself into a loop there Dodgers: Alright DeLeon and Alvaraz... It's agreed. I'll send the paperwork over for signature and contact the MLB Office for notification and approval. Twins: Hold On... Why are you willing to deal those two? Something ain't right. I gotta go back to Urias... I know you said no to Urias earlier but it's gotta be Urias. Dodgers: Will Urias get the job done? Will Urias end this discussion? We have been at this day and night for months now... (Pause)... Alright... Urias it is. Twins: Why are you willing to deal him now?

I'm going to want the guys that the Dodgers don't want to give up. Acquiring Dozier should hurt a little. The Dodgers getting Dozier and keeping the guys they want to keep doesn't sit well with me. Hold out for it and keep Dozier if you don't get it.

Personally... I just want a pitcher who can pair with Berrios as a high upside young arm in 2017. And... And... another highly thought of arm that will show up at the same time or a year after the arrivals of Gonsalves, Jay,.. Stewart timetable. I don't care about position players right now. We got some of those and we can make some more.

I keep thinking that the Braves could be thinking about Dozier. I think the Brave additions in the rotation signify that they would like to put something half interesting out there for the opening of a new stadium. They really need a big bat. I think showing up in the rumors for Chris Sale possibly suggests that the Braves may think they are closer than the entire country thinks they are. Maybe Atlanta could pony up a couple of arms for Dozier. They got em. I also think the Rays and D-Backs could part with an arm and still have a damn good rotation and greatly benefit from the addition of Dozier. The D-Back and Rays didn't perform well last year but they have decent rotations that could bring them into the mix if they just progress to the norm. Adding Dozier to the D-Backs deepens that offense nicely. The Rays have needed hitting since the early 17th century. I agree the Dodgers make the most sense but I think there are a few more teams that wouldn't hang up the phone if given the chance to talk Dozier and those are 3 teams that make a little bit of sense to me. I think both the Twins and Dodgers have plenty of leverage.