Twins GFP

Here is how the Twins offseason has gone so far: Write a Twins article bashing the Twins approach. Write a Twins article bashing the Correia signing. Repeat. Can something please happen so we have something new to talk about? Dear Spring Training, Please come soon. FDG

Other incentives I heard that are in his contract: $250k if he goes the whole season without throwing a bat at an umpire $100k if he goes the entire season without doing a pirouette in the outfield $500k for every walk he gets this season $1 million if he goes the entire season without a reporter using "morals clause" and "Delmon Young's contract" in the same sentence.

Look, I truly am not a fan of the Correia signing. I have said many times that I thought it was a gross overpayment. But nobody here seems to be able to answer my question. There has been lot of heat directed at the Twins FO for not acquiring better starting pitching. Can anybody tell me why this is solely the fault of the Twins FO? TR is getting blasted for not signing any one of a half dozen guys. Is it outside the realm of possibility that quality offers were made to some of these guys, but for any one of a hundred reasons they did not sign here?

Why would it be stretching it? Is it so hard to believe that the intention may have been to do as was said initially, but as the winter went on things did not go according to plan? Every beat reporter, every national pundit talked about how the Twins were in play with virtually every starting pitcher on the market. And yes, prices were considerably higher than expected for starting pitching, even the mediocre ones. The Twins promised to add starting pitching which would improve the staff. By my calculations they did that (are you telling me that Worley, Corriea, and potentially Harden are not upgrades over what we had at the end of last year). It may not be perfect: they dramatically overpaid for Corriea and Harden is a risk, but they did improve. I also hoped that they would be able to sign better quality starting pitching. I too believe that a couple of small breaks in their favor and this team could be in the hunt for a playoff spot. To say TR intentionally misled the Twins fans about upgrading the pitching, especially without hard facts to support it, is defamation and not very responsible. As for the TR kool-aid, if you are saying that I believe TR is the right person for the Twins organization due to his strengths in scouting and payroll control, then keep filling my glass. There are very few people that could come into this organization and do the job the way the Pohlads want.

Based off of USA Today, the Twins payroll last year was somewhere around $74 million. Add in your claimed profit of $26.6 million (where did that come from by the way?), that would allow them to go up to about $100 million (assuming that the Pohlads would be willing to accept a break even year, which I doubt). Even adding in the $20 million in additional TV revenue, tell me again how they would still make a profit with a $140 million dollar payroll?

It also appears that some of the more "insensitive" comments have been deleted.

Agreed. I've never understood all the hating for Carroll.

What inside information do you have to prove this?

And here is where the circular argument comes in to play. What if the GM truly believes that the pitchers available are not worth the money? What if he truly feels that there are no logical trades for the team? No ill intent, just not what he considers to be prudent moves. Would you still look at it as lying to the public? What if the intention was to truly keep the payroll at X dollars, but their better business sense wouldn't allow it? Would you feel better if the payroll was higher, but the team was not any better? Let's say the payroll does come in at $75 million. How do you if/how that money may be reallocated? It's easy to say the Pohlads are pocketing it (and they may be), but it could be redistributed to other areas with the intention of improving the team: scouting, sabermetrics, capital improvements that are not generally public, the list goes on. It is awfully hard to say the Twins are actively deceiving the general public when we are not even to spring training yet, and we do not know what the actual revenue numbers are, or the reasoning behind the decisions.

Assuming the intention is to sell in the near future...

Compact Powers in Michigan got $150 million to build Volt batteries (instead of outsourcing). A few years back Target got an insane check to keep their headquarters in MN. Let's not get into subsidies that certain industries get to stay afloat or keep jobs in the USA. For example the top 5 big oil companies get something to the tune of $4 billion annually. Being in Minnesota, we know farmers get subsidized all the time. Make no mistake that tax breaks equal cash. Losing a sports team due to state funding does not do well come re-election time. Nobody wants to be the Governor that lost the Twins...

Agreed. That is part of the problem with being in Minnesota. No huge TV contract, no huge advertising income. They actually rely on fans in the stands to meet the bottom line. The team walks a fine line in this regard.

Seriously? Big businesses get huge tax breaks and concessions all the time from cities and states looking to bring them in or have them build in a specific spot. The only thing about the Twins is that they are a very much in the public eye.

The "spending just to spend" theory is contingent on the belief that the funds will be saved for future use. We all know that is not the case. That being said, throwing copious amounts of money against the wall hoping that something sticks doesn't make much sense either. I know this: long-term contracts for pitchers are a huge risk. I would love somebody to do a study on this to show how these contracts work out over time, and on a year by year basis, factoring in salary ranges for these contracts. I would be willing to bet that the results are worse than most people realize. I am not a huge fan of long term, high dollar contracts for pitchers. Too much risk. Here we sit, bitching and moaning about where and how the Twins allocate their resources, specifically payroll here. We can talk about history, about trends, about horrible signings all we want. The thing is, we only know enough to be dangerous. We know offers were made, but don't know how much. We know the team was in on players, but not to what extent. We get partial answers and half-truths from players, agents, and GM's, all with their own agendas, that we try to spin into whatever point we are trying to make. We don't know specifics about Marcum or any other player the team has kicked the tires on. Just pieces that are released in an ongoing game of "contract chess". The Twins are a private run organization, allowed to spend their money however they would like. They have never made any bones about the fact they are being run like a business and not like a hobby. That means dollars matter in almost every decision. Very few companies run in the red for extended periods of time. It can't be done. The Twins obviously have a game plan in place. Like their baseball decisions or not, that plan will be followed. TR is not an idiot. You can disagree with some of the decisions being made, but he is only playing the hand he has been dealt. Minnesota is not flashy. Income earning possibilities are fewer here than other places (ie advertising, appearances, etc.). Combine that with a GM that refuses to regularly overspend for anything, and you see slow movements. (For the record, I believe the Correia signing to be atrocious at the moment. I truly hope to be proven wrong.) Bottom line, complaining about dollars and payroll is like hitting your head against the wall. Hit it hard and aggressive or nice and soft, at the end of the day the wall will still be standing and your head will hurt.

I heard he was pitching wiffle balls to his 4 yr old nephew, and wrenched his right shoulder when he turned quick to watch a 250 ft tater...

What about Joe Mauer? He makes way to much money, can't stay on the field, doesn't hit homeruns, and... Wait a minute... What thread am I on?

Not sure how that slipped in. I have corrected the posting. It's still pretty impressive to have 3 "1st rounders" out of one draft.

Mel Kiper has an article up redoing the 2007 draft (sorry, it's an insider). I was surprised at how well the Vikings drafted that year. In the redraft, Kiper has: Adrian Peterson at 2 (Vikes took him at 7) Sidney Rice at 18 (44) Brian Robison at 26 (102) Pretty impressive draft if you ask me.

Sid Hartman is still alive? Wasn't he at the Alamo? I thought Barrerio was ghost writing for him for the extra paycheck...

I agree with you Seth, but I have an extremely difficult time believing that to be the case. There is absolutely no reason not to vote Biggio, arguably one of the best 2B ever to play the game with no link to PED. Whether it is admitted or not, those that sent in blank ballots were looking to get publicity. I believe the writers should consider it a privilege to vote. Both the blank ballots and non-voters should be ashamed for not taking a stance and voting one way or another. (I don't buy the non-vote as taking a stance. To me it is a cop out). The BBWA has screwed this up in many ways. I don't think Morris is Hall-worthy. I am one of those against the "Hall of very good".

Are you reading my mind now? How did we go from crapshoot to "complete waste of time"? Are you honestly going to tell me that picking the scraps of other teams minor league systems will get you to produce a viable pitching staff? You're kidding right? All the guys in the low minors have warts, hence being left unprotected. As for live arms, go ask Sam Doduno. Look at the Rule 5 history: Rule 5 draft results - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Recognize many people on this list? Me neither. In theory you could build a rotation out of that. In theory I could conquer Asia with a spoon, but it ain't gonna happen. FYI... RA Dickey was taken by Seattle in the 2008 Rule 5 draft. Worked really well for them too. He went 5-8, 5.21 ERA, 1.56 WHIP that year. Yep, you can really build em.

So many wrong things, I don't even know where to begin... Rule 5 picks rarely work out to the good, especially pitchers. I don't have the numbers, but can anybody name one pitcher picked in all of baseball that has been productive since Yohan (Diamond had 1/2 a decent year, outcome TBD)? Don't count on this as a route for improvement. DFA players are typically DFA'd for a reason. Occasionally you may find a backup position or low end reliever, but that is about it. As this is an area we are pretty set at, I would also not look at this as a route for improvement. The draft is essential, but is also a huge crapshoot. If you get 2-3 MLB players out of each draft, you would be doing awesome. To complain about how TR has been doing in the draft is worthless, as we will not know about how last year's draft pans out until 2018. The FA market? TR doesn't control every aspect of this. Offers may go unanswered. Players get overpaid. Perceptions are different from team to team. I'm not saying it can't be the answer, but it totally doesn't fall on TR. Complaining about the Span/Revere trades while lamenting the pitching woes doesn't really make sense. Rarely are trades equal. In this case the Twins traded established outfielders (as you said, an area of strength) for potential quality pitching. Many of the pundits said the Twins came ahead in these deals (again, for pitchers), so I am not sure what you are complaining about. There are things that TR does, at least publicly, that I don't always agree with, but considering the hand he was dealt upon his return, it is hard to fault his job as a whole so far

If the numbers last year were worse than his career averages, how can he "regress to the mean"? I know you meant league averages, but there really is no reason to believe he will do that. His game is based on smart hitting and is not one demensional. He will be an elite hitter for a few years yet. The Doumit/Mauer platoon behind the plate will help to keep both players healthier in the long run. Mauer will be better in 2013.

Would you rather have them come out and say "Our pitching stinks, both in the majors and minors, so we have no choice but to acquire a handful of upper tier starting pitching."? What point would that serve? All it would do is destroy any confidence our younger pitchers may have and undercut any barganing position TR might have. We all know the Twins would like to improve their pitching situation. The Twins know it, the recent draft and trades show you this. Any team would toe the company line in their situation and keep their mouth shut. Ryan's job is as much PR as anything. It may be hard to generate positive buzz at the moment, but avoiding creating a bigger PR problem he can do by playing it passive in the media. If the team has truly not made offers to some of these pitchers, why is that a concern? Why offer to a pitcher you have no intention of giving a long term contract to? How many 5-6 year pitching contracts have worked out for the life of the contract? Considering how the Twins have acted in the past, any pitcher requiring a contract longer than 2-3 years is out of their league. I doubt annual dollars would be a problem. Like it or not, there is still a lot of conservative direction on this team. Bankers are conservative by nature (this I know), so would you expect the Pohlads to bring in a loose cannon, free spending GM?

Nick, unless you have further insight to share, you are speaking on assumptions. You assume that the Twins have not been chasing after Marcum, Sanchez, Demptster, etc., based off of what? No public news? You assume that no market offers have been made to these pitchers based on what? Twins history? Another assumption. No hard facts, just inferences that the Twins aren't trying or are unwilling. These assumptions daisy chain to assumptions that the Twins are not looking to be competitive in 2013, that TR is cheap and unwilling to spend money, that the Twins are just looking to fleece the general population by not trying. You know what happens when you assume... The bottom line is that we don't know what we don't know. And yes, it is too early to be complaining about the how the Twins have not adequately addressed the starting pitching situation for 2013.