DodgerFan1234
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Everything posted by DodgerFan1234
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See, if I'm looking at that schedule I'd try to find a way to put the Dodgers against the D'Backs. I know how miffed most Dodger fans were after Greinke. They are operating under a tight budget but Dozier is a piece that adds excess value. Their MiLB pitching depth isn't what it once was though.
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To be fair I think that was just an editorialization by MLBTR. Not actually reported by anybody.
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Question for Twins fans. Let's say the discussed Dodger deal of JDL/Alvarez falls apart and it is the decision of Falvey & Co that its best to trade Dozier before the season. What would you consider an adequate alternative to JDL/Alvarez+ from a team needing a 2B upgrade? It could reasonably be the Nats for example, but not from say a team that is 100% set at 2B like the Astros.
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?? I thought my post was pretty benign. The few prior posts over the last day were referencing Heyman's report yesterday which seemed to questionAlvarez as a piece. DaveW has been unwavering about DeLeon + Alvarez + some 3rd and/or 4th piece. If he hasn't been unambiguous, that means he must have been ambiguous. I think that's 100% accurate. Do you not know what unambiguous means or are we just trying to be argumentative for arguments sake?
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This. Also, DaveW has been unambiguous in relaying what his source is telling him. I'm on record saying I'm skeptical, but if he's right, then I'll be the first to congratulate him on scooping all national media on Alvarez being included. No point on beating a dead
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This is for informational purposes. I haven't seen it linked to this site but here's a Dodger minor league site with video of several Dodger prospects for you to peruse, including Yadier Alvarez, the prospect the Dodgers have (not) agreed to trade. https://minorleaguedodgers.com/2016/08/27/yadier-alvarez-great-lakes-highlights-2/
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You never know. You could theoretically trade him twice if Manfred decides to be the 2nd commissioner to screw and LA team and cite "Baseball Reasons"
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I think the Twins have a higher probability of getting the 1965 WS trophy from the Dodgers than they do of getting Urias.
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This is 100% correct. It's a good thing then that 1 player does not make or break a team.
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I said "Dozier definitely has more value from a defensive perspective than Kingman ever had. Far better, but I can't see the Dodger front office's eyes getting glazed over by HR's."
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I'm sure the mod's will be the happiest of all when the Great Dozier War of 2016 ends. Hopefully (for everyone's sake) the Belligerents (Dodgers/Twins) don't extend their skirmish to 2017. I don't think they even care who wins the conflict at this point!
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Every time a Twins fan wants to pump Dozier, they point to the 42 HR's. Given the way today's game is looked at, HR's aren't THAT exciting. To be honest, when I see the 42 HR's, I see Dave Kingman's 1979 when he pumped 48 HR's. Kingman had a few years where he pumped the OBP up to the .340-ish range but he was otherwise a 1-trick pony. Dozier definitely has more value from a defensive perspective than Kingman ever had. Far better, but I can't see the Dodger front office's eyes getting glazed over by HR's.
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Worth more in a trade: pitcher or hitter?
DodgerFan1234 replied to cmoss84's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
So, SP. Then up the middle. Then everybody else. -
Here's a just posted scouting report on Alex Verdugo for informational purposes. He's a name I've seen tossed around some on this board and others: http://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/pleskoff-scouting-report-alex-verdugo/
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Yeah, maybe I didn't explain myself well. The only similarities I see at this point are that they were the top international signees in their respective years. Moncada is more of a known quantity and has a higher profile as of now. I guess I was just trying to address the $$ figure being a deterrent to actually moving him, which I think it isn't. The Dodgers have had an embarrassment of riches over the years when it comes to pitching. Koufax, Drysdale, Newcome, to Hershiser, Fernando, (early) Nomo, to Kershaw, now Urias. The one we let go in trade for a 2nd baseman turned out to be Pedro. Man, that trade is seared into the mind every Dodger fan. So, we tend to value the pitching a certain way. Do some flame out ala Greg Miller? Sure but for the Dodgers, they tend to be more right than wrong on who they value as premium and don't tend to give them up.
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I (personally) am not averse to trading Alvarez because of the investment (or for any other reason). Moncada was traded for 3 years of control (50% more than 2 years) for Chris Sale. I think you ask baseball fans, front offices, and anybody that knows anything about baseball and I think 99% would say they would take Sale over Dozier. I also think its not even a close call if you had to choose. Dozier is a very good player, but he's not Chris Sale. That does not diminish Dozier, as much as it speaks of Sale. Then add that you can have Sale for 50% longer. So it's not a matter of never wanting a deal a prospect, its a matter of what you're getting back for me and for other Dodger fans. I will probably get banned from all the Dodger boards for saying this, but I would trade Seager if there was good cause, even with his 5 years of control.
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I post this because it is germane to Dozier, Alvarez, this trade and the Twins-Dodgers. DodgersDigest is one of the best and most reputable team discussion pages. Petrielllo, Moriyama, and Nozler are some of the best connected guys out there. They broke Kershaw's extension, the Rich Hill trade, and other trades. They also generally tell Dodger fans to shove it when sounding unintelligent. http://dodgersdigest.com/2016/12/21/a-word-about-yadier-alvarez-and-these-brian-dozier-trade-rumors/
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Chris Camello is a reporter for a small online media company covering LA sports. Last week he made a public proclamation based on his sources within the Dodger organization. That the Dodgers would re-sign both Justin Turner and Kenley Jansen. You gotta give it to the kid. He put his reputation on the line and guess what, he was correct. He even got a shout out from Rosenthal for scooping the national media. Chris was asked today whether 1. There was any truth to both JDL & Alvarez already being agreed to, but the parties quibbling over the 3rd piece, and 2. Whether he could see Alvarez going with JDL. To #1, he could not confirm such a conversation had taken place. To #2, (his opinion) he had a tough time believing this to be true unless Friedman and Co. knew something about Alvarez that gave them reason to give up on him. Here's a link to his timeline. https://twitter.com/Chris_Camello
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I agree with this assessment. Most Dodger prospect hounds seem to agree with this assessment. So it begs the question, why? The Dodgers under Friedman have shown not to cave under pressure with premium prospects. They did not trade Seager or Urias for Hamels or Price when they were the "missing piece". That was when Urias was nothing more than a prospect with Ace potential. So I'm glad we agree. But, why now? I would reason that the Dodgers are not averse to parting with Alvarez. Surely if the Angels were willing to Trout for example and they wanted him as the 3rd piece after say Urias and Bellinger you do it (plus more). No offense to Twins fans but Dozier is a good piece, a good cog in the wheel. He's not a premium player (Sale for 3 years, Archer for 5) though. In the eyes of many on the Dodger side, both JDL and Alvarez are the centerpiece of a trade. You trade multiple centerpieces for a premium player with 2 years left. Somebody more akin to Machado or Harper if they become available.
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I would think Andrew Friedman and Co over at Dodger HQ are smart enough to see through that and not care. Just as Favley and Co @ Twins HQ are probably smart enough to see right through the recent mentions of Kinsler/Forsythe.
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I've been on record as saying I don't believe that Alvarez is the 2nd piece. Knowing the system and needs I see the second piece being either Verdugo or Calhoun with the 3rd piece being someone between either 17-20 and/or 24-29. There's been mention of a "lottery ticket". I have read good things in particular about Davis and Abdullah from Dodger prospect hounds.
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The long-term plan for the Dodgers (assuming no major trades to affect this) would be to have Turner man 3B until his contract ends. That would coincide with Lux (or somebody) generally being ready and Seager moving over from SS. That kind of thinking could theoretically open up Edwin Rios as a 4th-ish piece. 2015 draftee. Played his age 22 season finishing at AA and broke out with 27HR's. The BIG question with Rios is whether his obp will hold up as he sees more advanced pitching. It's was .345 overall across 3 levels but just .304 @ AA.
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I referenced this in the other thread, but there's a rather good article from the Dodgers perspective dated Nov 30th on DodgersDigest. The site was started by Mike Petriello before he moved onto MLB Network/Statcast and Chad Moriyama. They usually have some of the best and most accurate analysis around. You may not like their opinions (and yes, its nothing more than opinion) but its a good read. http://dodgersdigest.com/2016/11/30/dodgers-twins-match-up-well-on-potential-brian-dozier-deal/
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This exactly. Which is why I'm having a tough time believing Alvarez is an actual piece. Reputable sources such as Heyman/Passan have tweeted that DeLeon is considered the centerpiece. Can you reference a reliable source that has mentioned Alvarez other than somebody in passing saying "gee golly it'd be nice to have him?" You said others had confirmed it since you reported his name on this thread.
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I'll give you guys a little bit of the psychology of Dodger fans. A memory burned into the mind of every Dodger fan over 30. Dodgers have a gaping hole at 2nd base. They have a plethora of pitching options to trade on the farm. They fill that hole with a guy that's been pretty good the last few years in exchange for a mid-rotation guy with some size/injury concerns. What could possibly go wrong? *cough*Pedro Martinez*cough*Delino Deshields*cough*
