ewen21

I don't have any trouble with you or anyone being optimistic about his future. MY problem lies with people who reconstruct what I say and then try to force me to defend things I never said. Personally I am not optimistic about his future, although I feel it is too soon to "give up" on him.

For whatever reason, he has not hit in the majors this year and he has continued to not hit in Rochester. Making honest observations about is performance isn't allowed when looking at the "big picture"?? I guess if we are attaching excuses they aren't. HOw about this.... It's been a very bad year for Buxton's development and there are valid reasons for concern

The Twins are working with him down there and I have seen at bats with and without the leg kick. If this isn't enough to recognize he has a problem right now I am not sure what it is going to take

What is unclear about what I wrote? I understand perfectly what you wrote and I do not agree with it. I am not going to write off migraines as nothing, nor will I write off what he does when he is on the field. I won't discount the entire season as "well, he was injured" because he was lousy right out of the gate again. His propensity for injuries is a big concern, especially since his game is predicated on speed. He was good enough to run all over the outfield after he returned, but he can't swing a bat or have pitch recognition? Did you see him the first half of last year? What is the true Buxton? I have no idea, but you seem to have the market cornered on this. It is his second half last year! That's wonderful thought and If you want to only consider the postive and hope for the best I won't stop you. Please do not, however, completely mischaracterize what I say.

I understand that a lot of people like to "see the positives" but it should not come at the expense of seeing the whole picture. I have stated and restated that Buxton's second half last year should have no more value than what he has done the first half this year. Please stop intentionally recrafting what I said. It is just silly.

He also seemed to have no trouble bursting into full speed chasing down balls like the one he did in Seattle when Cruz went yard. He can run like that with that toe, but can't swing the bat?

Even after I have clarified you still are going to insist that your cockamammie twist on what I said is my opinion. Again, I am saying Buxton's second half last year has no more value than what has happened during the first half this year. That includes EVERYTHING since the season started in Baltimore.

I love that mindset. Just give guys at bats at major league level even if they don't deserve it because it worked with Kent Hrbek 35 years ago. I am not into giving players an endless leash. A lot of people felt Buxton should simply play everyday in CF this year. Just put him in the lineup no matter what. Well, it got so bad that couldn't happen. When you grant a player that much leeway while other players remain on the tight leash it screws up accountability and this organization has had a lot of problems holding players accountable. If Gordon heats up and has a great second half in Rochester and proves himself worthy then I am all for it. To make out the 2019 roster now is absurd. Too much stuff on the horizon we cannot even begin to be able to predict

Funny how some people in this thread have found a single sentence in a couple of my posts and pit it against other things I stated explicitly in the same post. Why do people intentionally misinterpret points they don't like? Is this an attempt to find a contradiction? I think what I said was quite clear. TO summarize: 1. Buxton and Hicks are not comparable 2. What Hicks has done in NY is irrelevant to how Buxton will proceed in this organization 3. The Twins have done a poor job of developing players as evidenced by the way players succeed after they leave and flop when they are here, or in the way hyped and touted players haven't panned out. 4. What Buxton did in the second half last year is no more important than what he has done this year Anyone disagree with this?

Ummmm. So what is the trouble? HIcks COULD BE helping us as well if he were here and playing as he is now, just like Murphy. Point is, other organizations seemed to know how to coach them up.

I never did expect him to be what a lot of other people imagined. He had a brilliant year of hitting in the low minors in 2013 and that accounted for almost 37% of his minor league at bats. He hit .334 and since then he has been up and down and injury plagued. As far as the expectations go? I always had tempered expectations and never projected him or any other prospect. I generally do not partake in that game. I leave that to the psychics who can use numbers to read the future. I was not the one bestowing over-the-top accolades on him. I thought they were equal parts unfair and ridiculous. I surely hope that the next crop of young players don't get the same amount of responsibility, praise and expectations heaped on them. Let them develop in the minors and let's see what the hell we have. People were way too presumptuous with Sano and Buxton.

Where are you getting this? I was expounding on what could be the reason why was Murphy was good in NY, awful here and now good again. THat is more an indictment of the Twins ability to develop (I've stated this explicity) players than anything. Murphy and Hicks got away from here and have flourished. Any idea why that is? I am sure wondering how this happens

His propensity for injuries, his penchant for crashing into walls and history of migraine headaches are there and a factor on what he's going to accomplish as a major leaguer whether anyone wants to discount it or not. I don't discount entire seasons because IT HAPPENED. Whether it is any fault of his or not.

Lamenting? No, I don't think so. Life goes on for me if Buxton doesn't pan out. The kid needs to tighten up his game in many areas, most specifically the mental part of the game

And what I "literally wrote" was completely misinterpreted by you.

We discount the collisions, the migraines, the time off the field and the horrible composite hitting when healthy? Sorry, no. His ability to stay on the field is part of the equation as well and if he continues on this path where is he going to end up? If he gets injuries next year do we again "discount" and entire season? I am not hearing the "if only he was healthy" garbage. YOu just want to talk about the good things. The second half of last year was a glimpse of what he COULD BE, but is that what he WILL BE? This year is another glimpse of what he could be, as ugly as it may be, it is REALITY.

I think if you are going to interpret what I have said in your own words you really need to be more accurate. I think the first half of this season is as indicative of what he can do as anything else, including last season's second half. What you did was nothing more than an attempt to marginalize what I said and you used a cheap tactic that is all to prevalent of message boards, that is...if you do not like a person's take simply restate or rephrase, intentionally misinterpret, make up a silly claim the other person never made, then pawn it off on them as if that is their opinion. A load of BS. I never said that and my post doesn't in any way suggest a 50 at bat sample is more important than the second half of an entire season. Then again, let me ask you something.... Are you trying to tell me what he has done since this season began needs to be completely discounted in favor of what he did in the second half of last year? If so then you have a bias that isn't allowing you to see the whole picture. Is not what has happened this season (almost 3 1/2 months) indicative of an alarming trend? I am looking at the whole picture.

They were patient enough with Hicks. He was traded for a catcher who could be helping us greatly right now. The problem lies more in the way the Twins develop players. Hicks was horrible here and he probably was not going to be the player he is now with the Yankees here. He was also expendable because a lot of people assumed Buxton would a our perennial all in CF for the next 12 to 15 years. We needed a catcher and John Ryan Murphy was not a bad choice. He actually had a decent track record in NY, but he came here and failed miserably. That is on him, but how can we not wonder what the deal is when suddenly he is now the player he was on track to be when he was a Yankee. Another thing..... Why is this 1,000 or 2,000 at bat benchmark thing so important? We cannot judge or make reasonable comments on a player with 500 or 600 at bats? I think it is fine to do that and I think that Buxton right now is scary. How can he be THIS bad?

Just because you didn't see that doesn't mean it didn't happen If you follow this team and want to be honest about it I can't see how you can't make the distincition between how much Buxton was praised, touted and hyped as compared to Hicks. Another difference between the two is that Hicks hasn't been injury riddled and his game isn't predicated on speed. Another very big difference is that Hicks got into a different organization and for all we know THAT is the main reason why he has blossomed. Buxton (and Sano), to me, is/are an indictment of how poor this organization is at player development. Obviously the purpose of this thread is persuade people to stay hopeful and not be too critical of the guy. I get that, but just because other players have started off poorly and recovered doesn't mean this player will. Raher than make comparisons to other players (been done a lot with this player) how about we simply observe and comment on what we see instead? Right now he is barely hitting .200 in AAA after over 50 at bats and he is striking out about 40% of the time. This is the reality and we have no crystal ball so.....what are we really talking about?

The big difference between Hicks and Buxton is the fact that HIcks was never touted to be some five tool superstar type. He was never ranked the #1 prospect in baseball and was never considered to be a cornerstone player. Hicks was more of a project. I remember reading about him after the draft and he wasn't even sure if he was a pitcher or an outfielder. His dad was bitter toward professional baseball and he was made out to be a guy who could be on the PGA someday. Buxton is an entirely different story. The praise for Buxton was oozing through the monitor anytime I read anything about the guy. He was looked at as a generational talent. To compare him to HIcks ignores so much of the context that it is indeed pointless.

How players play seems not to matter. All this talk earlier in the year about just throwing Buxton out there and giving him at bats because he "isn't going to learn anything at AA" while he hits .150 in the majors was maddening to me. Don't call up players that are not hitting. Period. The problem is, Rochester is a consipiracy of ineptitude offensively

Huh?

You don't even need to much about baseball. Just watch the man. He is totally divested

I get the Facebook game? This is like finding coal in your stocking on Christmas morning Pfft.

One of the reasons I wanted to do the gameday thread TODAY was to play this song. This song has given me goosebumps since I was a child. Listen to this classic from the Moody Blues and please read my (I am hoping) non-controversial comments and impressions; along various quotes, ruminations and contemplations. Please remember no animals were harmed in the process ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would like to begin with historical (non-hysterical) happenings in Twins history on this date: July 3rd 2000- Topsy-turvy game at Fenway as the Twins come up on the short end in an 11-8 loss. Koskie and Canizaro each get 3 hits, but can’t make up a 10-3 deficit. Mike Lincoln gets crushed and David Ortiz gets 3 RBI without having an official at bat. 1980—Ken Landreaux ties a modern day record with three triples in a single game against the Texas Rangers and Metropolitan Stadium. Roger Erickson gets the win in this 10-3 rout. 1973—Tony Oliva hits three solo home runs in a 7-6 loss to Kansas City at Royals Stadium. Oliva’s 3rd big fly tied the game in the top of the 9th, but Ken Sanders would spit the bit in the bottom of the 9th as Royals third baseman Paul Shaal (I remember his baseball card) hit his second of the game, a walk off. Boring me to tears Somehow this team has to rise above the ennui. There is a very palpable vibe emanating from this club like they have shrugged their collective shoulders and moved on from the season already. I was told that *bleep* flows downhill by a sage WWII veteran while working as a teenage custodian’s helper back in the summer 1981 or 1982. That reference was allusion to the head custodian who liked to drink a pint of vodka most days while at work and be as unproductive as possible. In the case of this ball club, I think they have become a reflection of the manager. Molitor seems to have mentally checked out, although it looked like he was having fun for a hot minute last night when he came out to devise an unconventional defensive arrangement in the 9th. I am not sure about the rest of you, but once that happened, it was almost a foregone conclusion that Littell would walk in the run—rendering that strategy useless. It just felt like the distraction would be too much the kid. I think this Paul quote says it all: “You imagine the frustration of fighting, playing a good game for the most part and having a chance there,” manager Paul Molitor said. “You put a young kid in a tough spot bringing him in there in his second appearance, out of his routine of starting. There’s not a lot of margin of error there. It is what it is.” “No bad student, only bad teacher(s)” --Mr. Miyagi For whatever reason, we don’t develop young players. Buxton and Sano have been hot topics, but what about Max? He has hit below .230 for the last calendar year and just seems to be floundering. Polanco finally is back, but between the foursome of him, Sano, Buxton and Kepler there is virtually no production. This should be a matter of great concern for our two headed team of young upstart GMs. HOW and WHY does this happen with four young players? Furthermore, and more importantly, HOW do they recover from this? These wunderkind GMs came in and didn’t do an overhaul. Many people saw that as a mistake, but they wanted a period of evaluation. I found that to be odd considering they were advertised of being very data driven. Hadn’t enough data been compiled to support a massive overhaul of the Twins minor league system? They needed to bear witness to it themselves? I didn't get it and this isn’t hindsight. A lot of people were wondering what the deal was and we still are. From my perspective, it feels like things are percolating right now and at some point there needs to be action, because…. The downward spiral is intensifying After winning the first two games in Boston a couple of weeks ago we have gone 2-9, but at least we have lost some games with style. That odyssey of pain in Chicago Saturday afternoon was actually entertaining. The desperation wafted through my 75” 4K Samsung. Our National League retreads, Reed and Duke, dutifully flopped as if on cue. It was.... single single single single and for some odd reason it left me saying "MORE PELASE!!" This was just another instance where a lot of us just felt this matchup in that situation would yield disastrous results. I am not a genius, but Molitor seems not to see these things out of stubbornness. I know it is crazy to say this, but I am still finding enjoyment out of watching Twins baseball in spite it all. I have embraced the weirdness. I guess because I try to laugh at the absurdities in life and in the grand scheme of things this is supposed to be fun. I will admit this team made me crazy to the point of where my teeth hurt, but..to quote Paul “it is what it is”. As of now, this team has become some sort of slapstick routine and I am starting to follow the punchline. I have a text group of friends who text me during games and there is some pretty darn good material I could share from it, but I won’t because it wouldn’t beat the censor. With the state of things and the fact that we are at the midpoint of the season, It feels like this team is going to be blown up very soon. Whatever angst I might have felt a couple of months ago has melted away. Instead of caring about wins and losses I am going to watch 4 players the rest of the season. They would be Sano, Buxton, Kepler and Polanco. If they do better these next few months then it at least gives us some hope to hit the reset button next year. I will also give Falvey and Levine some credit for TRYING this winter. I was very satisfied with their effort, but they pulled the crank and it came up lemons. Morrison is a disaster. Lord knows I loved the acquisition and I am a Lomo fan, but he’s gone. They tried to improve the pen and it got a little better. Getting Odorizzi and Lynn were smart acquisitions to me and they have been kind of a sketchy puzzle. Neither guy seems to be able to get through six innings without throwing over a 100 pitches. That is a killer. In other news, we have Gabriel Moya up for today's game and young Mr. Littell down. Try shaving the beard, Zach. Maybe that will help OK, that's all I got for now folks. Peace and please be well. Here is the "Tuesday Afternoon" lineup for our Minnesota Twins: 1. Joe Mauer (L) 1B 2. Jorge Polanco (S) SS 3. Eddie Rosario (L) LF 4. Eduardo Escobar (S) 3B 5. Max Kepler (L) RF 6. Willians Astudillo ® 2B 7. Jake Cave (L) CF 8. Bobby Wilson ® C 9. Jake Odorizzi ® P And for the Brewers: 1. Brad Miller (L) SS 2. Eric Thames (L) RF 3. Jesus Aguilar ® 1B 4. Travis Shaw (L) 3B 5. Ryan Braun ® LF 6. Jonathan Villar (S) 2B 7. Erik Kratz ® C 8. Keon Broxton ® CF 9. Junior Guerra ® P