Darius

What do you mean by out-hit? Average? He has a career K/BB ratio of nearly 4 to 1 (Hicks = 2 to 1). He as 4 home runs in 115 career games (Hicks had 11 in less than 100 last year). Hicks had over double the number of plate appearances last year, four times as many in his career, and played in a park that is much less hitter friendly, and the numbers are pretty darn close. I'm scared to revisit their numbers at the end of this coming season. If Hicks is the starting CF in Yankee Stadium all year, he'll put up some good numbers (power and speed included - neither of which Murphy has), plus give them some very good defense (which Murphy can't do, judging by his metrics). Very good possibility he's a 20/20, with good OB% at .260 or so. I thought he'd get there next year in TF. The more I dig into it, the more this move confuses me. Is the premium on catchers really that huge right now? Especially for one that is certainly not, or barely, above average defensively? The only thing this guy really has going for him is he throws out runners at an OK clip, and the Twins need that. But, you can find mutiple guys to fill that roll in free agency for 2-4 million dollars (Chris Iannetta, for example, makes $5M, and he hits for power. Mathis makes $1.5 and might control the running game better than anyone but Yadier). I hope TR knows something that we don't, here. Because it looks like he just hosed by Cashman. Yankees fans sure seem to be thrilled.

I was relatively high on Hicks going into this year. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I fully expect to take a step offensively (was saying this before the trade) and this move look absolutely awful. Digging into this guy a little more, I hate this move.

Very interesting. I think it depends on a few things we're not privy to, mostly if they plan to go after a pitcher in free agency. Personally, I don't like the idea of running Milone or Nolasco out as fixtures of the rotation. Shipping off Berrios would eliminate the only real depth option they have if (more likely when) one of them implodes. Not only that, but I think he can be very good. He seems to elevate his game and succeed at every stop. Also, I can't really speak on Schwarbers abilities behind the plate. We don't really need another DH/RF candidate. If he's awful behind the plate, I'd pass. The Hermann move seems to indicate there is some kind of move coming at catcher at some point. Realistically, I'd like to sign Mathis, who can control the running game a little. Possibly Avila, which would add a little left handed pop at the bottom of the order, without being totally inept defensively. Both would be very cheap options (hence realistic for this team).

People aren't comparing the two physically, obvioulsy. People aren't comparing the two statistically, clearly (at least not that I've seen). You make that out to be the case. I think you're missing the sentiment altogether: They will forever be linked by fans and media because of the fact that they are media-hyped international signing from Asia by the Twins. E.g.: "The last time the Twins bid to negotiate with a major free agent from a professional league in Asia, it went horribly. Will this signing follow suit?" It's a valid concern, especially considering the money allotted to this guy will generate an opportunity cost (another option will be foregone if they lost out on the 12 mil) because....well, Pohlads. If Nishioka fizzled out in Fort Myers, as opposed to Minneapolis, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The fact that both players were/will likely be basically handed spots in the lineup very early, on teams that had playoff aspirations, their successes/failures can be rightfully compared. It's more a scrutinization of the front-offices' ability to pull talent from a collective region (similarly how Carribean and European players are/will be compared), as opposed to comparing two individual players physically and statistically. If you can't compare the NPB to the NBO, how can you compare him to a player from the MLB's steroid era (Choi)? What does both being a "big" first baseman have to do with anything? If Choi were a small first baseman, would that change anything? What does weight, in general, really have to anything in baseball? There are ways to make speedy A.J Pollock, at 195, and tortoise-like Prince Fielder, at 300, look like similar players (respectively: .315/.367/.498/.865 v. .305/.378/.463/.841.....speed notwithstanding). Mike Trout and Miguel Cabrera are compared as MVP caliber talents every day. Totally different players. Why couldn't Park be compared to Nishioka as a potential failure? I get that you want to list as many supporting points as possible to coyly rip a certain group of people that have annoyed you, but most of them mean absolutely nothing, or are manipulated in a way that feigns logic/patterns.

Oh, what a polite and thoughtful response. Try and follow: So, first off, they can't afford it if they're planning on going over $100 M? Is that what you're trying to say? Or, are you agreeing with me? Because, if they were below $100M at the end of 2015, which they were, signing Jordan Zimmerman and some other things, would certainly contribute to them going back over $100M, no? You don't think the Pohlads are capable of holding a payroll below $100M, despite that projection? In short, they can afford the guy, was my point. Sure, it also makes sense to sign Park, over a Type A power bat, because they don't have to give up a pick. But, I don't see how that fits this scenario. Explain to me why, if you're dolling out $12.5 million merely to negotiate, that you would give a sh*t about giving up a draft pick for the player? You're implying that they wouldn't sign him if they had to, and they value that draft pick over 40-60 million dollars, after the contract? Let's imagine, all else being equal, that Park is a Type B from the USA, and is asking for the exact same contract that he will ask for in the coming weeks. You don't think they would attempt sign him? That makes perfect sense to you? That may be the case, but it certainly doesn't make any more sense if you're into winning baseball games. Ok, how about I simplify the scenario that I think would make sense IF true: "Hey, if we're going to go after a guy that will requires us to give up a high draft pick, maybe we should use that foregone signing bonus and contract to add some talent elsewhere, or atleast offset some of the cost. Since we're ready to make a run (allegedly), lets turn that into some MLB ready talent." Now, lets say the contract that were to be given to Zimmerman were given to Kyle Gibson, thus not surrendering a top draft pick. Maybe their bid on Park comes in at 8-9 million (the current bid less the cost to sign the pick not given up). Did I claim this to be factual? No. "Doesn't make sense?" I think you're confusing "doesn't make sense" with "can't comprehend" If you take a look at the not-so-fine print at the bottom: "I find it hard to convince myself that this is possible." Please let me know if you need any more help.

We need to get Park signd before anything can happen. Then, he needs to prove he can hit MLB pitching. If those two boxes are checked...then i'd start to consider trading Plouffe. You're spot on about most of this. If you want a competitive squad, the depth will be needed, there is no doubt in my mind. All this trade talk is knee-jerk.

As far as catchers go, I hear a lot of "lets trade for Lucroy" or "Ramos," in this case. I'd rather sign Alex Avila or Jeff Mathis and hang onto Plouffe/Hicks.

Plouffe was third on the team in at bats (573), second in runs (74), third in hits (140), second in doubles (35), third in triples (4), second in home runs (22), first in RBI (86), second in total bases (249), fourth in walks (50), was second on the team in OWAR (2.2 - tied w/ Sano), had a .977 fielding percentage at third base, with a 7.234 ZR (for comparison - Buxton was 7.9). Is that production not important to the team? I've said this repeatedly (already): You need RH power in Target Field. You accumulate it. You don't trade it away. This is why Ryan is trying to sign Park in the first place, and why Arcia needs a change of scenery. Just to give you an idea of what the double play figure means: From 2012-2015, here are some of the league leaders in double plays, other than Plouffe: 2012 NL - Ryan Zimmerman, 2012 AL - MIguel Cabrera (same year he won the triple crown and MVP). 2013 NL - Matt Holliday, 2013 AL - Billy Butler, 2014 AL - Albert Pujols. That's a list of guys who are pretty good with a bat. If you look at the top 25 of GIDPs every year, you basically see a who's who (included in 2015: Cabrera, Bautista, Frazier, Adrian Gonazlez, Braun, Adam Jones, Pollock, Salvordor Perez, Kendrys Morales, Cano, Mauer, Fielder, etc.....Guess who's 28th on the list...Lucroy with 18) Plouffe is the kind of player that doesn't anything do spectacular, but does many things very well. He's a very valuable player to this team. Trading Plouffe or Hicks would be a bad move, IMO. Trading Plouffe and Hicks plus prospects for a catcher who averages roughly 400 ABs and 11 HRs a season....and posted a WAR of 1.0 last year (lower than Plouffe 2.5, HIcks 1.3) would be an awful decision. They'd be paying for 2014, which he'll likely never match again. They can find cheaper defense at catcher, and they don't need his offense (which is "meh" aside from '14). If you're trading Plouffe AND Hicks AND prospects...you better be getting some pitching in return, because there goes a whole bunch of defense. Do you propose Danny Santana play center field when Buxton starts the year in AAA? What do you do if Park is awful, rely on Vargas? Do think Park should get 600+ PAs? Or, what if Mauer gets hurt again? Or, Sano gets hurt again? It's a disaster waiting to happen....and it most certainly would.

I would love to sign Zimmermann, and it would make sense why he would want to come here (he's from the Stevens Point, WI area). He would really solidify this staff, and make them a serious contender: 1) Zimmerman 2) Santana 3) Gibson 4) Hughes 5) Duffey. That is a formidable rotation. This part of it does make a lot of sense: (i've heard it before, not sure who to give credit to): Park was signed because they plan on forfeiting an early draft pick. A high draft pick would certainly be attached to signing Zimmermann. They can afford it if they're planning on taking the payroll back up over $100 M. Still, I find it hard to convince myself that its possible.

I disagree with these two points (or with the sentiments of those who feel they may have significant value to the team). I think they're both trending the wrong way, to put it lightly. Its becomming clear that neither are very good, and it's not looking good as far as them turning it around. They're both one-dimensional type players, with major holes in their swings, and are liabilities with a glove. It's really disappointing, because I was convinced that Arcia was going places a couple of years ago. If the FO had any confidence in these guys, whatsoever, they wouldn't have dropped 13 mil to negotiate with Park (that may be flat-out denied by TR, but its clear). I wouldn't be shocked if we didn't see either at Target Field again. I may be shocked if we did, now that i think about it.

I think they may shop Plouffe and Hicks, but I don't think anyone actually gets moved (operating under the assumption that park signs): 1) Trading Plouffe assumes Park can step into the line-up from day 1, platoon-free. It's impossible to know how he will translate until spring training, and even then likely not until weeks into the regular season. What will his splits be like? Can he handle velocity? Can he handle hard breaking stuff? He's doesn't appear to much of a pull guy, can they change that? If not, will the power alley's sap his power? There are just too many questions that can't be answered thoroughly during the offseason to confidently trade Plouffe. 2) Trading Hicks assumes that Buxton and/or Santana can put it together offensively from game 1, and that Santana will be with the big club as OF depth (it won't be Kepler). I'm not convinced Buxton can be effective enough at the plate to open the season as the everyday CF and leadoff hitter. If he's not, that's where he needs to be in Rochester. I'm not convinced Santana should be a major leaguer, yet, either. He's a much more valuable player at SS than the third best CF option, and I don't think running him back and forth is doing him any favors. Hicks will be vital to this teams early season success. 3) Both players have huge upside. Plouffe can carry the team with power binges. There isn't anyone else on the team that can do that other than Sano (possibly Dozier, but his lows are brutal, and more sustained), who is likely to regress slightly over the course of a full season. Hicks really has the upside, and is drastically underrated by most fans. Extrapolate his 2015 number over 550 PAs (extremely quick an dirty) and you get roughly: Offense: .256/.323/.721, 75 runs, 17 doubles, 5 triples, 17 HR, 50 RBI, 50 BB, 20 SB, 5 CS Defense: 14 OF assists with a .995 F% with very good CF range, instincts, and athleticism. As he refines his approach and becomes stronger and more consistent, I expect increases in his XBH numbers, RBI, and walks in 2016. I wouldn't be surpirsed to see a 2016 full season extrapolation of something like .265/.340/.750, 90 runs, 25 doubles, 5 triples, 20 HR, 65 RBI, 60 BB, 20 SB, 5 CS. That's pretty darn good, not unrealistic in any way, and extremely cheap in terms of production vs. salary. We could realistically look back at the All-Star break and say HIcks was the first half MVP of the Twins. 4) I find it hard to believe that they'll get a return that is favorable in relation to the value they bring to the team currently with their defense, and hot stretches offensively (not to mention, Hicks switch hits and can run the bases...and, again, both have some RH pop, which should be highly valued at TF). What they need is pitching. I don't see them getting anything in return, in the way of an MLB ready arm, that they couldn't get for a reasonable price in free agency. In short, trading them isn't likely to happen. I wouldn't do it for anything less than quality starting pitching prospects closer to the 2016 deadline, and that's not going to happen. I think its much more likely that all of said players are kept, Mauer and Plouffe get fewer at-bats over the course of the season, Sano plays a little 3B and a little OF, mostly DH, and Park DHs and plays 1B a fair amount. It will keep everyone (namely Mauer) fresh, leaves you with an excellent bench bat at all times, and prevents a majory injury from derailing the offense. There will also be the rare days (probably at home, against LHP), that they fit all of that RH power in the starting line-up.

Are there actually people out there who thought it would be a good idea to trade Plouffe for Lind, before the Park news? I would be physically sickened by that move. That is absolutely terrible. A solid fielding 3B, with RH power in Target Field (built for RH power), for a guy with marginally better numbers from the left side, in Target field (where LH power goes to die), who won't play defense (hopefully, he's never posted a positive dWAR), and seems to get injured frequently? I can't get over how awful that would be. Plouffe is so much more valuable than Lind.

But, its still 100% on the World Series victory, right?