Champuckett

You named some of the most heavy contributors to this thread, which is the subject of my concerns. It's understandable if these are the same people that are going to be questioning what I am saying the most intensely. And yes, it's going to be difficult for some to understand what I am talking about, since those were some of the very same people I am addressing as participants of the thread. And Pseudo understands what I have written even if he may disagree with me. Reread what he said above or he can speak for himself again here if he chooses. If I am wrong about that and misread his prior statements, then I apologize for that, but it seemed pretty clear he understands, although he does not agree. I said I would happily talk with you in private messages and I have already messaged you to clear this up and answer any questions you have. I have not received a response yet. The narrative is what the media pushes, that we have liberals/democrats/republicans/conservatives running our country and that their stances on issues are the only available options. These factions debate between one another and their talking points are the foundation for where our public discourse is derived. The discourse is false in nature and there are more options available to be discussed than what they lead us to believe. The narrative also focuses only on things that benefits the state, so we will tend to get stories that only show the state in a positive light, or show enemies of the state in a negative light. The stories that pop up that are news that we may or may not be interested in, will be chosen unbeknownst to us or our desires, and we will not end up getting the full picture of reality and what it is that is happening in our country or in the world. Alternative forms of media are slowly beginning to fill in these gaps of missing/discarded information that we previously did not have, which is enabling us to see a bigger picture of what is happening. To do "better", we simply need to stop following said narrative. This does not mean we follow a new narrative, simply abandon the existing one. Participating in following the narrative, preaching it, discussing it, it will continue the media's domination of the narrative over us and thus, their power over us in terms of forming what we think and speak about with one another, especially with political debate. It will begin to shine light on those (politicians, corporations, bankers, etc) interested in subverting the will of the people. This is already in the process of happening as many are leaving the establishment media behind and finding new forms of collecting information. I think you are likely aware that this is already happening. I'm sorry if this is muddy and cloudy and foggy. This is making perfect sense to me and others, and it's ok if it's not something you agree with. I think I may have hit a wall with you on this issue unfortunately, and I mentioned in a prior post, it's ok to agree to disagree. I have explained my stance multiple times now. I suppose if I am still unable to get across what I am saying, then I am perhaps a poor writer and/or speaker of ideas and the problem lies on my end of things. I don't think this is the case since others have understood, but it is absolutely possible, and again, I am more than happy to discuss this further in private messages so we don't take up a lot of the public space here on this one point of clarification. Edit: You responded to my pm, thanks, just noticed.

I think that better mode is happening as we speak, but it's possible I could be getting ahead of myself. There is a renewed interest right now by people at large to bring integrity back to news and bring actual investigative news back as well. You may already know this, but I'll put this out there for anyone else that might be unaware. What we have right now are mega news corporations in major cities, and they have local affiliate sites that do most of the investigating, and run the results of the investigation up the ladder. The central hubs never leave the studio anymore, they collate information through computers. They also take a lot of stories from the AP and run them as their own. You will see it even says that the author is the AP, but it will be front page news, as if the news did the research and investigation for the story themselves. Instead they simply piggy back off of everyone else's work with little confirmation, which means if the story turns out to be wrong, they won't know, because they don't have their own investigation team there on site to correct said story. This is not how news used to work but it certainly is how it works now. The internet transitioned the platform into this model, and so that's the low quality of information we are getting that is advertised as cutting edge news.

That's good that you demand more of them. I think the world would be a much better place without the current form of media that we have, as it has helped sustain the power groups that still occupy most of the world power. There is no doubt we need news and information in some form, and unfortunately the conflicting interests play a larger role than we are lead to believe.

The proof is in the pudding. All of the media worldwide follows the same talking points, the same pattern, and consolidate, especially on the biggest issues. In addition to that, the BBC is state run media, which does not historically good marks for being fair and accurate. But I understand before the response comes, this is not proof, this is not evidence, therefore I am incorrect. I may and probably am putting words into board members mouths that they didn't say, but people I was just having discussions with could help point this out since they agreed that we are indeed being pushed into a narrow field of debate by the persistently limiting media. If I am doing so, they can surely speak for themselves. Whether they specifically were implying the BBC or American based news only is unknown, but they seemed to have at least a minimal amount of awareness that this was indeed happening at the least. And I mean that part as a compliment.

Those are all part of the same media ultimately, including BBC.

I'm unsure on which part you are still unclear on. There is a narrative. The media puts that narrative out to the masses. Said narrative is being followed in this thread since page 1. I have pointed this out in this thread. I don't know how I can simplify that further. I don't think it's controversial to have the desire to make the world a better place than it is right now. We still have modern day slavery, starvation, human trafficking, and corruption in 100% of all countries at the highest to the bottom levels. There is room for improvement. Do I have the answers to all of those problems? Of course not. No one does, but we can begin by chipping away one tiny piece at a time. I think this discussion between you and I might be better served inside private messages so we can work out where the misunderstanding is, if you are willing. I can message you right now.

Why not demand better from the media or maybe discard it and move on. I said in a number of my posts prior, that as long as we can admit that this is just entertainment to us, and we aren't actually discussing these topics having meaningful impacts on our lives, at least that is being honest with ourselves. I could be wrong, but I think people are discussing these issues with the notion that what the media says is real and credible and base their reactions we see here on that credibility. But yeah I actually agree, I look at the stories we see on on a daily basis at worst, entertainment and at best, clues to what they desire us to believe.

Life goes on, but could it be better. Can we do anything more than what we have now. Can we make more of a difference than we think we can. Has our education and the media been used to castrate our enthusiasm for making change. I think we could use a little more optimism in the world, but that's just me.

Thanks for the comment Mike. The "media" is simply the conglomeration of mostly American news, lead by the AP, that adheres to the same principles and does not deviate far from one another and ultimately has zero dissenting perspectives. Political parties, do we need them, why do they exist. We could start there if you are interested.

I think I am speaking with clarity on what I am trying to add to the thread. Yes, the narrative by the media is being followed here. Yes, it is narrowed. Why is it assumed that we have to follow a narrative? Yes it most certainly is a problem and I wouldn't be wasting more than a second of time here if I didn't feel it was. My participation here is that attempt to first address the problem, which is happening as we speak. And yes, this thread is "poisoned" by this problem. There has been personal effort over multiple years put into this thread by multiple people's contributions, so it's understandable that the majority sees it differently. And you hit the nail on the head, the majority seeing things this one way, and not seeing it any alternative way, is a problem. Thank you for admitting the possibility that you are wrong. It is also possible that I am wrong. I'm not above that possibility, no one is. I'm doing my best to not attack the board here, but point out the predictable direction the board has taken in this thread. The reason it's predictable is because you can see the same patterns and behavior play out nearly unanimously across the internet on discussion forums everywhere. I mean it it with my most sincere intentions I don't think anyone is lacking intelligence or understanding of some of these issues. But what I have seen play out throughout the thread from top to bottom indicates a closely followed narrative that has been laid out by the media. It's possible for now, we will have to agree to disagree on that point.

It is possible on some level that this is correct. In terms of the topics being espoused, I see little difference from what the media is talking about as compared to what is being talked about here.

Respectfully, I think we are seeing different things regarding the behavior of the participants in this thread. I at no point said there is a right narrative to be had. Simply we are all following the same narrative, which is brought to us by the media, and this is not just a problem in the thread here. I'm sorry this topic is nebulous to you. I think it holds merit and is a why we have seen the direction this particular thread has taken since the beginning. But again, it is not just a problem here with the members here, but expands well beyond this thread or message board.

I am sorry if I incorrectly took it as that suggestion. And I am sorry for this being implicit to whatever degree that it is. I asked a couple questions in my post above which applies as a response to your post here as well.

So to be clear, you do know that the narrative that you are following is limited in scope and I'm simply rehashing ideas that you and most others here are already aware of. If that's the case, then why is this thread filled with those limited scope talking points regarding nearly every single political topic? Is there an urge to break free?

Yeah. We view politics through the left and right paradigm, not because of anything having to do with what these 2 polemics offer, but what we are told and allowed to believe in by the media. I think right now, with everything granted to us by the media, we are given a very low amount of possibilities for our world and how it should be run. Pseudo made a great Noam Chomsky quote above that illustrates that this isn't just something that I am bringing up for the first time, so there is nothing revelatory here. Yet what I see are the same media induced narratives being brought up going all the way back to page 1. If it is known that this is the case, then why are we continuing to fall into this trap. That would indicate it is willingly. I have my doubts about that, I don't think most of the people here are happily conversing knowing they are lemmings. I lean towards it being unbeknownst to each individual, but it's possible I am wrong.

I at no point have insulted anyone's intelligence. I have pointed out that this is happening across 90% of the internet and have not targeted TD. This would imply that I think 90% of the people out there participating are stupid or lacking intelligence. Not what I said, nor anything I implied. I'm sorry this is what you have picked up from this. The collective has simply fallen into the same trap that all other sub-collectives have fallen into. That's what I am pointing out. Whether or not this a matter of intelligence is up to you, but I do not personally think this is an intelligence problem. And you are exactly right about making that community. The responsibility is up to us. And that's why I am here right now, typing up this response to you and why I have been responding to each of these inquiries.

Is there a narrative that we are willingly or unknowingly following as I laid out in the above post?

Yeah, entertaining topics are being discussed elsewhere on the boards here. This thread, which revolves around politics, is doing the same thing, talking about entertainment, under the guise of speaking about the important issues of our day.

I'll just quote the response I gave to Pseudo: "As for the suggestion of broaching a topic, I think I will keep working on what I have been, and that is talking about what the narrative is, does it even exist, and how the media reinforces that narrative, and how we participate in our own small way in reinforcing it." Is there a narrative that we are willingly or unknowingly following as I laid out in the above post?

This is a good response. I think you are onto something sir! The narrative/story is a simple one. We, as a nation, think politics is comprised of 2 political parties and you have to pick a side to get anywhere, to have a voice in this country. And these political parties ensure the safety of our rights and/or expansion or reduction when necessary. If you are outside of this box, then you are an independent, and that's the outer limits of the scope of the box. All of the accompanying media we have reinforces this idea with 100% of the stories they publish, never allowing anything beyond this box to seep into our consciousness. Not even on Fox News, nor on Drudge, is there supposed alternate viewpoints to the establishment media. As I stated before, we aren't going to get anywhere unless we can realize that this has in fact happened and that we are still using that narrative, brought to us by express delivery everyday on our cell phones, computers, and tablets by the liberal/conservative media. As for the suggestion of broaching a topic, I think I will keep working on what I have been, and that is talking about what the narrative is, does it even exist, and how the media reinforces that narrative, and how we participate in our own small way in reinforcing it.

Cheers to that. And I hope you can appreciate when I am talking about what I am seeing here and what I am trying to do to wake a couple of people up based off of that. I've had a lot of life lessons as well where I came out stronger on the other side thanks to someone freeing me from conformity. It's a healthy practice and I'm sure we all have a lot more of these moments to come.

Yeah, the problem isn't a detail here or a detail there, a stance, or a series of issues. You are correct on that. It would make it simple to simply argue against that topic. We could go back and forth about any of the popular political debates of the day, but in the end that's never going to get you or I anywhere. I understand you don't see the collective here as CNN, Fox, MSNBC, NPR yet nearly every single topic is based off CNN, Fox, MSNBC, or NPR topics of the day/week/month. That's not implying that they are being directly linked here (although they sometimes are), I'm saying these news agencies begin to spread the new thing we are supposed to be discussing, and we are each being dutiful citizens talking about the desired discussions in spaces like we have here. That's a huge part of the problem and I'm not singling this website out or the group of participants we have here. I've tried to ensure it is clear through multiple posts now that the problem exists across the board on a majority of internet discussion sites. The problem and scope go beyond our tiny little community here at TD. You first have to realize that this is happening and funneling of all of your intellectual capacities into a small and limited box, before you can begin to break out.

It's the inability to go off course, and focusing on something other than what the narrative is telling us to talk about and how to think. The same narrative is being followed by every participant and so the disagreements ring hollow because everyone is at the end of the day agreeing that what they are discussing is relevant and warranting discussion. There are no topics you are going to find inside modern day American politics that are going to help any of us, because they are no longer being discussed (or were never being discussed in the first place). We are all tuning into the same news sources and connecting to the same narrative, which is resulting in what we are seeing here. Empty discussions. When this is challenged in even the most minor way, the group solidifies and the outsider is ultimately rejected so that the narrative remains intact and the focus stays unchanged and the pipeline to the news sources stays strong and undamaged.

Thanks. I'd be interested to know which part you can agree with me on. Maybe we can work from there and I can find points I agree with you on based on your response. It's more like a left vs. a slight variation of left thought. Even if some diehard conservative came in here (which is rare), and he was debating a left point of view, it would be the same end result. All viewpoints are coming from the same source, the media, so in reality, there is nothing of substance being discussed, just rehashed and reiterated points we have heard 1000 times before. Should we care about The Covington Boys? Robert Kraft? AOC? Mueller's latest? Trump's newest scandal? The Smollet case? These are the things we are being fed on a daily basis, and we are simply regurgitating what the media is talking about, as if these things are important in the grand scheme of things. If you enjoy the entertainment aspect of it, and can admit that this is entertainment, then I can be sympathetic to that, but these issues are being discussed as if they mean something and hold value.

I am sorry that you do not see this. Perhaps we can have further discussions on the topic and you and/or I can both expand our perspectives.