Kelly Vance

Come on man......nobody does, and that is a pretty absurd prerequisite.

I'm with Diehard on this one. Catchers are important. I don't care if they don't hit if they are a good receiver. But I'd be willing to give up a lot for a stud, like the Real deal.

well, unless you want to win in 2019. Locking down the catcher position will cure a lot of ills

How many minor leaguers are there? Way more than 100. So the 100 are among the 20 percent. But nobody is going to trade you a top 100 guy for the people that are being mentioned as trade bait. The 80 percent figure was just a WAG. But there are only so many spots in MLB and the guys laboring in the minors are mostly not gonna make it. So I don't trade an established guy for a handful of magic beans.

Exactly right. The theoretical two birds in the bush appeals to a lot of posters. But more often than not, you are better off with the bird in the hand. That is so true ........that is why there is a proverb about it.

You don't prove a point by giving an absurd example. And the exception does not disprove the rule. I think we should send out feelers on Dozier, Lynn, Rodney, Reed and Rogers maybe, but I think Joe, EE and Gibby stay. They will never trade Mauer.

I was merely making an observation.Most prospects don't make the show. I'm not saying we waive all our draft picks or don't spend time on development. But the teams that you mentioned have done a super job of handling young players. They are the exception, not the rule. Houston basically wiped the slate clean. Of course, getting Correa and Altuve didn't hurt in a quick bounce back. And I don't think it is unfair to say the Twins have had mixed success at best in developing young talent. Seems to me that, by the time you get a shot at the show, there shouldn't be holes in your game. We have brought up good players, but gee whiz, Buck doesn't even know how to bunt. Proven players are the bird in the hand. Prospects are the proverbial two in the bush. And a player that is a starter now, being traded for two mid range prospects means two things. A current hole in the roster and two or three years until we get our value back from the trade. The trade for prospects strategy works best when a team is a few years away from contending. When you are close, which the Twins were coming into the year, you need to get more or less MLB ready guys in return. There are many posters who talk like sending away a proven player for two in the bush is always the answer. I don't think so. Of course there are some trades that work, like AJ for Nathan and Boof and Frankie. But here again, these are the exceptions, not the rule. And the personality and drive of the player is the single greatest indicator of success.

Well, I'm not the one who is melting down and ranting and saying I am "done with it." .And your business practices thing is pretty limp. It is based on panic . You are stating an opinion as if it were fact. That's is counterfeit. Facts: Byron Buxton won a platinum glove last year. Sano was an All Star just last year. Eddie is becoming money, and Eduardo already is Dozier is having an off year, sure. Gordon is waiting Mauer is battling back from concussion symptoms but he has two years left Keps is regressing, so what? Polanco is back. That is eight of the nine position players and it is not a desperation situation. Our stating catcher is out for the year but will be back. The stating pitching is the best it has been in years. How is any realistic businessman seeing this as a desperation fire sale? I call BS. I think many observers would see a year where 5 starters have missed time and the catcher out for the year and our number 1 starting pitcher is out too. You think we overcome all that with a young team like this? That is going to set back any team. I don't believe that panic is a strategy.

Look, we all know what your opinion is. You have a right to it. But just because you have a right to your opinion doesn't mean others don't have a right to theirs. And FYI, if ANYONE owned a business and you talked like that to the employees, you'd get your ass sued. It is called interference with contractual relations. And you don't increase your credibility by being willing to do something that offensive. On the contrary. You distort what people say and you twist things. For example, if you read my posts, I have never once even used the term "status quo." I don't need someone else to state my argument, especially when they get it wrong. Many guys always want to make a deal for the sake of making a deal. I am against that. But if I'm playing black jack and hit 19, I stick. I think the Twins are close to contending and will be that way for the next five years if they don't blow it like a bunch of impatient fantasy league owners. We are still a couple players away, mostly relievers. So, your premise is what is flawed, because you distort what I've said. Knock it off, will ya? Starting pitchers can be effective into their early thirties. Gibby has good years left. We can get two out of him for sure and if all goes well, an extension. Skinny framed guys can last a couple years longer. He is a solid 2 -3 starter as of at least this time last year. And we've seen how hard it is to find reliable starters. You don't just find those guys in the bargain basement. And what are you going to get? A mid range prospect is three years away. Who is going to pitch in Gibby's spot until then.....? Someone not good enough to beat Gibby out in ST? Yeah, great. You take advantage of guys growing up together ala Kirby, T Rex, Bruno, Rat and Gagne. You keep your good core players and Gibby is one of those. You build around them. Adding your Gladdens and Baylors and Jacks and Reardons. I am sorry you are so frustrated. I really am. I am bummed too. But keep it in perspective. This is only baseball. America's pastime. Its not life or death.

I don't think this team is that far away from contending. Injuries hurt us a lot this year. But on the positive side, we have a better starting pitching staff (note that BP is excepted) and a young core of players that should improve and soon. Mauer will not be traded. He will resign a modest contract for another year or two and will retire a Twin. Dozier will explore the free agent world and be disappointed at the market. He may resign if they give him a decent offer after that. But the Twins may replace him with Gordon. Polanco, welcome back. Sano has the rest of the year to remember how to hit and will be brought back up in September. The outfield is set. EE should be extended, and may like that, if this years team doesn't make him want to play elsewhere. He gets a QO. We need a stud catcher. Castro is a question mark. Garver is not the answer. We get to forecast Berrios, Romero, Gibson, Odorizzi as 1-4 and and one of Pineda, Santana, Gonsalves, Mejia or May as #5. But Santana may be done. Lynn will be gone and is likely being shopped already. Same with Rodney and Reed. I think next year we really really need to strengthen the BP. Molly loves Pressley but a guy that throws 97 should miss more bats. Rogers still has promise and we keep at least 2 leftys. I think May makes the club as a 7th inning guy and maybe a closer. Hildy is staying. He gives us a different look and has done well. I don't think Duke or Magill stay. IMHO the core of the team is decent. Buck is doing well in his rehab stint. Sano has become a project. He was out of shape and lost what he had in trying to hit everything 500 feet. Maybe he will take the coaching, maybe not. If he does, he should come back strong like in 2017

No, that is not what he is saying. He he is talking about shopping guys who other teams may be willing to take on as a player down the stretch because they are in contention. Of course there will be a smaller return for rent a players. He is also saying that Gibby figures into the Twins long term plans and is worth more than a mid level prospect.

80 percent of prospects never make it to the Show.

So keep the Gibber. I'm going to the fridge, anybody wanna beer?

Water under the bridge, but they had the means to compete deep in 66, 67, and less so in 68. Killer got hurt mid season. The 69 Birds were unbelievable. My point was, don't treat the team like a bunch of cattle. (I know, herd of cattle is the proper categorization)

Shut up..... but you are right

No way I trade the Gibber.

Why not Red Dawg?

That first line should be in the TD Hall of Fame.

don't have much good to say about anybody, eh?

Molly doesn't look like he is having fun. And his post game pressers stop short of him reaching for a cup of hemlock, but just barely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl_3oT1Up8o

no bias there.........

Look, Fernando had a couple bad outings. Big deal. It happens. He is a seasoned veteran that has seen his better days. He was never going to be Jeff or Rick or Eddy, or a Ron Peranoski. . We all know that he is a stop gap this year. So, when you rely on a 41 year old stop gap, you have to know that he is going to get lit up now and then. And he did.... and I cringed along with the rest of you. But he is a Twin, and I love the guy.

The idea of "trading high" sounds plausible, and people jump on that band wagon so as to appear smart and savvy. But if you keep trading off your good players, just because they now have better value, pretty soon you are Calvin Griffith. He had a 1965 team that should have won several world series titles, but he sold them off, one at a time. It is the same mentality... and it has nothing to do with winning. The way to win a title is to identify your solid and dependable core players who are winners and have heart, guys like Kirby, Rex, Bruno and Rat, then surround them with guys who are solid role players, guys like Gladden and Gagne, Lombo, and Chili. The idea that all players are basically fungible and that we need to focus on metrics is illusory. Statistical analysis has its place, but it is only a part of a total analysis. The idea of trading a good player for a shiny new pebble shows a complete lack of understanding of what makes a winning team in the first place. You want a bunch of guys who like playing the game and like playing together as a team. You need chemistry. Every championship team has it. And you don't develop chemistry by thinking of your players as a pile of stats. The revolving door is what losers do in trying to imitate winners. But that is NOT what the winners do. They build a solid foundation of core players who have guts and desire, and add players who fit that mold.

Watching the Yankees and Sox last night I had to tell myself..... we traded Aaron Hicks and then Span and then Revere.... and since then have been trying to find that star CFer. For many years. I think Buck is the guy, but it has been a revolving door. So when I see Gibby finally get it together, I want to keep him and let him payoff the FO for their faith in him. Prospects are fools gold more often than not